What is pulling America Apart?

[rambot]

Some certainly fit that mold... But the accusations of fascism certainly aren't confined to just the people who actually want to deny someone else rights.

For instance, if I were to say "I'm cool with calling someone whatever name they want to be called, people can use whichever bathroom they like, and they should be protected from employment housing discrimination... but, I think there needs to be a bigger conversation surrounding things like like contact sports, and I think people may be jumping the gun a little bit by adding this to elementary school curriculums and giving people hormone replacement therapy after one visit with a physician"

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... That would be enough for the die hard activists to make such an accusation against me, despite the fact that I'm about 80% on their side.

THAT is a fair point.

 

[Mayzoo]

Functional mental illness on both sides IMO; we can function in society, but not as we should be functioning. Symptoms include: quick to anger (almost constant state of low-grade anger), lack of empathy, lack of concern for the public welfare of those who disagree with us, lack of willingness to compromise in almost all veins of life, vindictiveness ie own the ____(fill in the blank mentality), lack of rationale thought patterns leading to inability to discern fact from propaganda.

And this is not limited to just politics either.

 

[Margaret3110]

I think as a society we have lost or are losing the capacity to think deeply about things, to form our own opinions, and to have genuine healthy discussions and debates.

So everything becomes polarized and extreme. People believe what they are told to believe. They demonize those who have different opinions.

 

[RDKirk]

The paradigm that the party which is not in the White House must function as an “opposition-party”, (which works quite nicely under a parliamentary system, which our system is definitely not), seems to have been born in the 1990s under Speaker Newt Gingrich.

Our system relies on both parties working together to achieve a rough consensus without either party getting everything that it might desire, yet moving the Nation forward in a “two-steps forward, one-step back” sort of way.

They could move to a more parliamentary system but that would require a Constitutional Convention to repeal/replace Article One; this isn’t likely to occur anytime soon, though.

I agree with this, including the person who was the apparent cause.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes but there is a side saying "the dinner party hosts are pedophiles" when statistics bear out that their community harbours a far greater rate of pedophiles. But most importantly, there is Absolutely NO PROOF that the dinner party hosts are pedophiles OR dangerous to children.

Why should the dinner party hosts feel obliged to fight with reason if their opponents do not and continue to slander them?

If the side saying "the dinner party hosts are pedophiles" are content merely to stay home from the dinner party along with anyone else who believes the same thing, rather than prohibit the dinner party (that is: tolerance), then there's no problem.

 

[RDKirk]

Well, for the people who have been patiently waiting through decades of repression of their in-group, there isn’t going to be a “changing ‘too fast’!” moment. They’ve waited long enough to have full equal rights with the rest of us.

To “out here” 18 months seems fast, to these formerly repressed people it’s been a very long time.

Depends on what they're calling "repression."

As I've said before, when the Civil Rights Act was passed, we black people never expected white people to ever like us as a result of the law. We just wanted equal civil rights. "You don't have to like me. But if you're selling hotdogs to everyone else in the public, then sell hotdogs to me too."

Today, it's regarded as "oppression" if everyone doesn't like and celebrate us. "You won't celebrate Juneteenth with me? You're oppressing me!" And we constantly create and upgrade more and more litmus tests to that effect, more and more difficult tests to avoid the charge of "oppressor."

"You won't let me walk out of your store with an item I haven't paid for? Oppressor!"

Repeat that for every other group that has coalesced into its own self-identified "identity." Do you remember the Black Liberation flag ever being flown from the White House or any government building back in the 60s and 70s? No, you don't...it never happened. We never expected it.

But today, failing to fly the LGBTQIA+ flag is called oppression.

 

[rambot]

If the side saying "the dinner party hosts are pedophiles" are content merely to stay home from the dinner party along with anyone else who believes the same thing, rather than prohibit the dinner party (that is: tolerance), then there's no problem.

I agree so long as they do not also slander by saying they are dangerous to children, sure.

Of course that is not happenning. There are many people doing more than just sitting on their couch not going to the party. And what is stopping the couch people from saying "I disagree with you but please go ahead and fill your boots because you have the constitutional right to do so.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

But really, what do you guys think.

Lack of empathy, patience and humility.

 

[RDKirk]

I agree so long as they do not also slander by saying they are dangerous to children, sure.

Slander is sufficiently prosecutable by law, if that's what's occuring.

Of course that is not happenning. There are many people doing more than just sitting on their couch not going to the party. And what is stopping the couch people from saying "I disagree with you but please go ahead and fill your boots because you have the constitutional right to do so.

What is happening?

 

[Richard T]

John Adams said our Constitution was made “only for a moral and religious people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you have more and more unbelievers and they are pushing for a new progressive values you are bound to have more polarization. The bible says in the last days love will grow cold too. Not so many nice people, educators that are often bent on indoctrination and anti-God stuff, media that is clearly biased all play into this answer. There are other factors, that the pdf also points out such as inequality. In a sense evil has gotten bolder and more upfront, and many Christians have responded with their agendas, making clashes inevitable.

A good question is what can turn this around? Revival/renewal is hopeful and impactful. Negative events too like war or some serious disasters can also work to bring people together. You can see the democrats now getting uncomfortable with their own that are antisemitic and the Republicans too are split in many ways. Sad for the USA but it seems pretty predictable.

 

[timothyu]

A footnote in history as was the British Empire before it and all before that. Next!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

John Adams said our Constitution was made “only for a moral and religious people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you have more and more unbelievers and they are pushing for a new progressive values you are bound to have more polarization. The bible says in the last days love will grow cold too. Not so many nice people, educators that are often bent on indoctrination and anti-God stuff, media that is clearly biased all play into this answer. There are other factors, that the pdf also points out such as inequality. In a sense evil has gotten bolder and more upfront, and many Christians have responded with their agendas, making clashes inevitable.

A good question is what can turn this around? Revival/renewal is hopeful and impactful. Negative events too like war or some serious disasters can also work to bring people together. You can see the democrats now getting uncomfortable with their own that are antisemitic and the Republicans too are split in many ways. Sad for the USA but it seems pretty predictable.

Well, to be fair, the framers were divided on the issue.

People will often cite quotes like the on you have above to make a claim that it was intended to be a religious nation (and we can get into the problems and pitfalls of that if you'd like) ...or the slight variation of that same sentiment which is what you expressed, which is "this limited government stuff only works if everyone believes in God"

But then neglect to mention that other framers/founders made statements like these (all made by different framers)
The Bible is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind.

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.

It's important to note that what's considered an atheist or agnostic today, would've often been referred to as a "deist" in those times. And a substantial portion of the the gentlemen who helped set up our country fit that mold.

For every John Adams and John Jay, there was a Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine.

 

[timothyu]

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

That is why they abandoned the Kingdom of God to align themselves first with the Roman Empire and down the line. Oddly also many American evangelical pastors seem to think they have a political edge because they are perfect (prefect?) examples of free enterprise and capitalism (also contrary to the Kingdom).

 

[Pommer]

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...Yes, but lies are a characteristic of a kingdom of satan, which America is part of satans kingdom. Even though it was not around when satan came into possession of the earth's kingdoms.

...Only Israel was a nation God created and reserved for Himself, but even now they are left to the world after they rejected Jesus as their Messiah. Truth will rule only when Jesus locks away satan and brings in His kingdom to rule the nations of earth.

What are we to do until the blessed event?
That’s what politics is about, innit?

 

[timothyu]

What are we to do until the blessed event?
That’s what politics is about, innit?

No, politics fights over the selfishness of man while those of the Kingdom care for others including their enemies.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I stopped myself from posting this opinion in another thread because I'm curious about what Americans in America think is pulling America apart.

I am 1000% convinced that the left and the right do NOT agree on what that is. As I'm outside of it, I have my own opinions on both groups. But from SPECIFICALLY where you sit, what do you think is causing the slow melting of America's standing.


My thoughts?

Right
Mass migration
DQSH/LGBTQ issues
CRT
Economic crisis (which isn't actually an ECONOMIC crisis...it's a distribution of wealth crisis as the rich get richer and the middle and poor get left behind....still)

Left
Greed/Corporate exploitation
Racism
The removal of rights for certain classes of people
Republican degradation of national institutions.



But really, what do you guys think.

https://aztownhall.org/resources/Documents/Bridging Divides to Build Community/Stuck in the Middle - The Extremes Pulling America Apart Summary.pdf
That's a link to a boring pdf that indicates that it is the extremism that's tearing America apart. Seems boring and, frankly, the "Extreme left" in America? I'm curious who that would include....

What's funny is you seem to pretty clearly understand the divide, but don't understand why or how these concepts get shaped along the lines they do.

We only have to go back to the previous Democratic President to see that Democrats....literally a decade ago...didn't support mass migration. Obama deported more illegals than Bush. He supported building infrastructure along the border...his entire term.

Because Trump was essentially a one issue candidate (build the wall)...Democrats had to distance themselves from that as much as possible. It's not that it was the wrong position....nor that it was racist or xenophobic. It was painted that way though...to win votes...because we have a 2 party system.

When covid became the death knell of small businesses....and the employee shortage of 2021 happened...businesses were desperate to hire anyone and it seemed like, briefly, some leverage was found for the working class to increase wages.

What happened? 9 million people, roughly were allowed into the country...for virtually any reason....and now we have children working in factories. Seriously.

If you're against what you put on the Democrats side as "corporate greed" then you should also be against what you put on the Republican side as "mass migration". Those 9 million people have easily guaranteed wages will stay flat for another generation.

If you want to boil it down to one problem it's this...the average voter is to dumb to understand the problems. If you think the younger generation should be able to afford an education, healthcare, housing and all the things we consider necessary....then literally the worst thing you can do is flood the market with cheap disposable labor. Anyone who stays drives up the price of healthcare, education, housing and drives down wages for those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

 

[d taylor]

What are we to do until the blessed event?
That’s what politics is about, innit?

Well the first thing and most important is to believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Work hard and live your life as humbly and as honest as you can. trying best to follow the laws of the land and to understand that government is not the solution.

For me politics is about getting politicians and their buddies rich.

 

[Bradskii]

Today, it's regarded as "oppression" if everyone doesn't like and celebrate us. "You won't celebrate Juneteenth with me? You're oppressing me!" And we constantly create and upgrade more and more litmus tests to that effect, more and more difficult tests to avoid the charge of "oppressor."

I think we can all take time to mark the progress we've made and use it as a reminder of the work still to be done. I can use the Gay Mardi Gras in Sydney as an example. We used to attend as a mark of solidarity with gay rights. Now so much progress has been made here that it's more of a celebration of that fact and it's turned into a party rather than a demonstration. The original march for rights served it's purpose. So...we don't bother going any more. But turning up is not used as a 'litmus test' as to your position on gay rights. And anyone else who suggested that I didn't support them because I don't now go would get short thrift.

"You won't let me walk out of your store with an item I haven't paid for? Oppressor!"

Hyperbole doesn't help in this type of discussion.

 

[Pommer]

No, politics fights over the selfishness of man while those of the Kingdom care for others including their enemies.

Well, when the Kingdom is here you’ll have it the way you’d like it; until then we have to consider all of those not in our in-groups.

 

[Pommer]

Well the first thing and most important is to believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Work hard and live your life as humbly and as honest as you can. trying best to follow the laws of the land and to understand that government is not the solution.

That’s nice; does one’s politics “change” when one repents?
Anybody else see doublethink here?

For me politics is about getting politicians and their buddies rich.

There is that, yes, the trick to to get some benefit for the rest of us while they rake it in.
We’ve departed from that station some time ago.