Hamas-Israel News Thread

[trophy33]

Nonetheless you hit the aggressor much harder than he hits you to send the proper message. That is exactly what Israel is doing......and good for them.

Hitting the aggressor is OK. Thats not what we are talking about here, though.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It seems you do not understand war crimes properly.

You can find out more here:

Israel, Gaza: What are the rules of international law? – DW – 10/22/2023

Israel is retaliating after the Hamas terrorist attacks with massive bombings, a total blockade of the Gaza Strip and possibly a ground offensive. What is covered by international law — and what constitutes a war crime?

www.dw.com

Obviously you didn't bother to read your own article so I will post the part that applied to this situation:

Self-defense — within limits​

Israel's right to self-defense against armed attack according to Article 51 of the United Nations Charter is indisputable. This right, however, is restricted by international humanitarian law. Here, one of the most important principles is differentiation: The warring parties must differentiate between civilians and combatants, between civilian objects and military targets.

That only means, however, that civilians or civilian facilities are not allowed to be knowingly targeted in attacks. So, the killing of civilians is only forbidden when there is proof that it was done deliberately.

In practice, law professor Talmon explained, that means: "If Hamas positions a missile installation in a civilian neighborhood, Israel has the right to attack this missile installation — even at the expense of what is terribly called 'collateral damage' among the civilian population. And this collateral damage can, depending on the military goal and need, also be very high."

It is almost impossible to differentiate between civilian and military targets according to international law in the Gaza Strip, which has been under Israeli and Egyptian blockade since 2007 and is one of the most densely populated and built-up areas on Earth. Hamas tunnels run under apartment buildings; Hamas facilities are located in residential and office buildings. International law does not really account for this.

"If Hamas stays and hides in schools, mosques, hospitals, and operates command centers from there, then they become legitimate military targets," Stefan Talmon said. At the same time, it applies that: If Hamas sets up military positions in civilian areas, that counts as a war crime.

 

[JosephZ]

Can anyone show an equivalent from Israel?

See post #1241

 

[trophy33]

Obviously you didn't bother to read your own article so I will post the part that applied to this situation:

It seems to me you do not bother to read me properly.

 

[civilwarbuff]

How would that have worked exactly? Say in 2022, a group of Palestinians get together and invite countries to "come in and finisht off Hamas"? Which countries would sign up for that?

Several countries in the West that I can think of; Israel; maybe even a few Arab states that would like to see the Middle East calm down.

 

[essentialsaltes]

From your article:
The warring parties must differentiate between civilians and combatants, between civilian objects and military targets.
Something Hamas did not do....

Sure, but the International Criminal Court and the UN have ratified Geneva Convention VII.98.34(b): "Two wrongs don't make a right."

 

[civilwarbuff]

It seems to me you do not bother to read me properly.

Maybe you are not expressing yourself properly. Read what you type before you post.....it helps a lot....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sure, but the International Criminal Court and the UN have ratified Geneva Convention VII.98.34(b): "Two wrongs don't make a right."

This wasn;'t abolut the ICC and Geneva Convention; it was about what the UN call war crimes. Besides, wasn't my article.

 

[trophy33]

Maybe you are not expressing yourself properly. Read what you type before you post.....it helps a lot....

You are rarely specific about what you are trying to criticize and your questions are not making much sense. It will be better if you simply ignore me, because such conversation is not interesting to me.

 

[wing2000]

Several countries in the West that I can think of; Israel; maybe even a few Arab states that would like to see the Middle East calm down.

Before the recent attack on Israelis, Israel would have never agreed to mount a costly invasion to take out Hamas. And no other country has the capability or will to go in....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Before the recent attack on Israelis, Israel would have never agreed to mount a costly invasion to take out Hamas. And no other country has the capability or will to go in....

Things are different now. Hamas has crossed a line......

 

[essentialsaltes]

This wasn;'t abolut the ICC and Geneva Convention; it was about what the UN call war crimes. Besides, wasn't my article.

I agree with myst33 that you aren't spending nearly enough effort trying to understand what people are telling you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You are rarely specific about what you are trying to criticize

My post are generally very specific for someone following the conversation.

your questions are not making much sense.

Maybe you are unable to comprehend my questions. I can drop a few levels and make them simpler if that will help.

because such conversation is not interesting to me.

Well, it is not much of a conversation since your typical response is to deflect difficult and uncomfortable questions. It is not interesting for anyone when that is your typical response.

It will be better if you simply ignore me

You do what you want to do but that will not stop me from challenging your assertions and positions when I believe you to be taking the wrong side.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I agree with myst33 that you aren't spending nearly enough effort trying to understand what people are telling you.

And the same could be said about the 2 of you.

 

[trophy33]

My post are generally very specific for someone following the conversation.

Maybe you are unable to comprehend my questions. I can drop a few levels and make them simpler if that will help.

Well, it is not much of a conversation since your typical response is to deflect difficult and uncomfortable questions. It is not interesting for anyone when that is your typical response.

You do what you want to do but that will not stop me from challenging your assertions and positions when I believe you to be taking the wrong side.

You are not constructive, you just want to argue and put others down.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You are not constructive, you just want to argue and put others down.

Stop deflecting and start discussing. Answer questions no matter how difficult and when you are unable to counter a position admit it. People won't be so dismissive of your posts if you do that. You will gain some 'street cred' so to speak.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Committing war crimes is not in the allowed playbook.

Killing civilians isn't necessarily a war crime.

War crime - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Under the law of armed conflict (LOAC), the death of non-combatants is not necessarily a violation; there are many things to take into account. Civilians cannot be made the object of an attack, but the death/injury of civilians while conducting an attack on a military objective are governed under principles such as of proportionality and military necessity and can be permissible. Military necessity "permits the destruction of life of ... persons whose destruction is incidentally unavoidable by the armed conflicts of the war; ... it does not permit the killing of innocent inhabitants for purposes of revenge or the satisfaction of a lust to kill. The destruction of property to be lawful must be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war."[51]

If Israel's enemies are hiding in the basement of a hospital...they're still legitimate targets. Israel makes every effort to warn civilians in the hospital to evacuate to minimize civilian casualties....it's not Israel's fault if they choose to stay.

If Hamas terrorists are launching rockets from atop an apartment building....they are legitimate targets.

Civilians die during war...even the UN recognizes that it is sometimes unavoidable.

People pretending that if Israel kills one person who isn't Hamas suddenly makes them war criminals are only fooling themselves.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Only what can be googled.

Just give me an example.

 

[trophy33]

Killing civilians isn't necessarily a war crime.

War crime - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Under the law of armed conflict (LOAC), the death of non-combatants is not necessarily a violation; there are many things to take into account. Civilians cannot be made the object of an attack, but the death/injury of civilians while conducting an attack on a military objective are governed under principles such as of proportionality and military necessity and can be permissible. Military necessity "permits the destruction of life of ... persons whose destruction is incidentally unavoidable by the armed conflicts of the war; ... it does not permit the killing of innocent inhabitants for purposes of revenge or the satisfaction of a lust to kill. The destruction of property to be lawful must be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war."[51]

If Israel's enemies are hiding in the basement of a hospital...they're still legitimate targets. Israel makes every effort to warn civilians in the hospital to evacuate to minimize civilian casualties....it's not Israel's fault if they choose to stay.

If Hamas terrorists are launching rockets from atop an apartment building....they are legitimate targets.

Civilians die during war...even the UN recognizes that it is sometimes unavoidable.

People pretending that if Israel kills one person who isn't Hamas suddenly makes them war criminals are only fooling themselves.

Regarding the current war, the United Nations are already collecting evidence of war crimes:

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/commission-of-inquiry-collecting-evidence-of-war-crimes-committed-by-all-sides-in-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-since-7-october-2023/

 

[trophy33]

Just give me an example.

"Israel has imposed a total and comprehensive blockade on the Gaza Strip. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant spoke of a total siege, in which Gaza would be cut off from electricity, water, food and fuel supplies. Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem accuses Israel of war crimes, due to the extent of the airstrikes and the blockade. Humanitarian aid organization Doctors Without Borders speaks of a collective punishment of Gaza that contravenes international law."

Israel, Gaza: What are the rules of international law? – DW – 10/22/2023

Israel is retaliating after the Hamas terrorist attacks with massive bombings, a total blockade of the Gaza Strip and possibly a ground offensive. What is covered by international law — and what constitutes a war crime?

www.dw.com