Hamas-Israel News Thread

[rjs330]

There are international humanitarian laws. All sides of all conflicts are bound to keep them. If not, they must be strongly criticized by others.

Also, as Christians, we should have higher standards than the world, not lower.

And as a Christian I do. If I am killed for the cause of Christ so be it. I don't ill b rewarded for it. But I don't expect that of everyone else. I also expect a country to defend it's people from evil. After all that's God's mandate for them.

 

[trophy33]

This is such malarky.

Stop breaking rules of these forums.

By not picking a side you have picked a side. And in this case the UN has chosen to pick the side of the terrorists. Yes there IS an evil side in this conflict. It's the one that raped women and forced them to watch their babies be cooked babies alive in ovens. That's the evil side.

No Israel isn't and hasn't been perfect. But they are not evil. Heaven help us if we can't see that.

There is no collective guilt. Not even by the world standards, not to say Christian ones.

 

[essentialsaltes]

No Israel isn't and hasn't been perfect. But they are not evil.

If we see Israel commit war crimes, it gives us some cause for doubt.

Heaven help us if we can't see that.

Heaven help you if you turn a blind eye to it.

 

[rjs330]

Israel has the right to visit vengeance, do Palestinians have it too? Its either moral for both side or for none, we must decide what morality we want to hold to - the Old Testament one (eye for eye) or the Christian one? Whenever any church tried to apply Old Testament laws, it ended badly (like burning witches and heretics).

No because Israel hasn't done that to the Palestinians. They weren't the ones randomly firing rockets into civilian areas. And they certainly didn't go into Palestine and rape children so hard that they broke their pelvises. That didn't rape mothers and force them to watch their babies being cooked alive in ovens.

Israel does not have the mantra of exterminating all Palestinians. Israel doesn't teach their children to kill Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Can anyone show an equivalent from Israel?

 

[wing2000]

Uhh, excuse me but didn't Hamas attack and murder over 1400 Israeli citizens as well as KIDNAP 200+ others? Do you think the responsibility lies with Israel? You would have a far better argument had Hamas attacked Israeli soldiers instead of a cowardly attack on civilians. At least soldiers could fight back.

Ah excuse me, but maybe you shoud re-read what I wrote.

 

[trophy33]

No because Israel hasn't done that to the Palestinians. They weren't the ones randomly firing rockets into civilian areas. And they certainly didn't go into Palestine and rape children so hard that they broke their pelvises. That didn't rape mothers and force them to watch their babies being cooked alive in ovens.

Israel does not have the mantra of exterminating all Palestinians. Israel doesn't teach their children to kill Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians.

I think you fell for the common error - thinking that one side (Palestinians) is full of evil and one side (Jews) is totally innocent. Which leads to injustice ("it does not matter that a Palestinian child was torn apart by a bomb, because it was a revenge for a Jewish child" style of thinking).

This bipolar, black-and-white view of the world is actually a thinking closer to Hamas than to Christianity.

 

[wing2000]

Let's assume there were.
Israel would also know the camp is one of the most densely populated areas on earth.
Someone in the Israeli command made a decision to bomb it (assuming the camp was the intended target) knowning the risk to human life would be large. They own that decision.

According to the IDF, their target was a Hamas ringleader of the Oct 7 attacks:

The Israeli military announced that the strike had killed a ringleader of the Oct. 7 attacks. The medical director of a nearby hospital reported hundreds of injured people and dozens of deaths.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/31/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news?smid=url-share

 

[civilwarbuff]

I do not understand what you are trying to ask or say or how this relates to my post from which you took just one sentence, but is about something quite different.

Here is the rest of your quote:

The context of my post was rather USA, EU and broadly United Nations. Any country that is civilized should not pick sides, but instead support what is good and being strongly against what is evil. Only this "strategy" will force any side of a conflict to keep the international rules.

Unconditional support leads to breaking the rules.

As you can see it is not about 'something quite different'. So how about answering my above question instead of just attempting (poorly I might add) away from it?

 

[trophy33]

Here is the rest of your quote:

As you can see it is not about 'something quite different'. So how about answering my above question instead of just attempting (poorly I might add) away from it?

Ask clearly and simply. If you are unwilling to reformulate your question, I will have to ignore you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

If we see Israel commit war crimes, it gives us some cause for doubt.

Unfortunately war is about tit-for-tat. If Russia shoots a nuclear missile at us are we to sit back and say "Oh well, we can't shoot one at them because that would be a war crime"? If your enemy hits you you hit back 10x, 100x, 1000x harder; whatever it takes to get the message across that you are not going to sit back and just take it. Israel is doing just that. And it is too bad that the palestinians are paying for the actions of Hamas but the palestinians can stop that anytime they want by cooperating with countries willing to come in and finish off Hamas. They don't want to do that then that's on them.

 

[trophy33]

Unfortunately war is about tit-for-tat. If Russia shoots a nuclear missile at us are we to sit back and say "Oh well, we can't shoot one at them because that would be a war crime"? If your enemy hits you you hit back 10x, 100x, 1000x harder; whatever it takes to get the message across that you are not going to sit back and just take it. Israel is doing just that. And it is too bad that the palestinians are paying for the actions of Hamas but the palestinians can stop that anytime they want by cooperating with countries willing to come in and finish off Hamas. They don't want to do that then that's on them.

It seems you do not understand war crimes properly.

You can find out more here:

Israel, Gaza: What are the rules of international law? – DW – 10/22/2023

Israel is retaliating after the Hamas terrorist attacks with massive bombings, a total blockade of the Gaza Strip and possibly a ground offensive. What is covered by international law — and what constitutes a war crime?

www.dw.com

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ask clearly and simply. If you are unwilling to reformulate your question, I will have to ignore you.

You do what you want; the fact is you are unable to defend your position and simply prefer to deflect.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They continue to use human shields today, including women and children. The story from 2005 was to show how the IDF opposed a ban on using human shields.

They opposed a ban imposed by the Israeli Supreme Court. The last article you linked showed a criminal investigation for a possible violation of the ban....by Israeli officials.

Thanks for the proof that not only did Israel ban the use of human shields decades ago, but they hold their soldiers accountable for breaking those rules.

Does Hamas do that? No. They literally parade hostages through the streets and torture them... then cry victim.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Unfortunately war is about tit-for-tat.

Committing war crimes is not in the allowed playbook.

 

[JosephZ]

I find it very interesting that everyone who is condemning Israel for their actions have no idea what to do.

I've made a couple of posts in this thread on what Israel should do.

Israel needs to focus exclusively on hunting down all of the terrorists responsible for the attack, including the leadership of Hamas, and holding them accountable. Israel also needs to stop the influx of outside funding from countries like Iran. Bombing Gaza and punishing everyone living there for the actions of Hamas isn't going to destroy Hamas or end future terror attacks against Israel. As I said in the post you quoted, the current approach is only going to exacerbate long-standing grievances between the Palestinians and Israel, and until those grievances are addressed, terrorist attacks against Israel will continue.

To defeat Hamas, Israel has to make supporting and joining them less attractive to Palestinians and potential recruits. This can be done by Israel recognizing and respecting a Palestinian state and improving the lives of the Palestinian people. Israel will need to play a direct role in rebuilding Gaza and improving infrastructure once the dust settles from this most recent bombardment. This, along with supporting economic development and offering livelihood opportunities, would go a long way in changing the attitude and mindset of those who live in Gaza. If Israel can show that they care more about the Palestinian people than Hamas, then Hamas will lose the support of the Palestinian people and their primary recruiting tool. This is the only way to destroy Hamas. To make this happen, it will take a concerted effort by the Israeli government, the UN, NGO's, and the Palestinians themselves.

Israel needs to focus exclusively on hunting down all of the terrorists responsible for the attack, including the leadership of Hamas, and holding them accountable. This can be done with special ops teams, conducting boots-on-the-ground operations inside Gaza, offering substantial rewards for information on where to locate militant members of Hamas and detaining their leaders that live outside Gaza.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It seems you do not understand war crimes properly.

You can find out more here:

Israel, Gaza: What are the rules of international law? – DW – 10/22/2023

Israel is retaliating after the Hamas terrorist attacks with massive bombings, a total blockade of the Gaza Strip and possibly a ground offensive. What is covered by international law — and what constitutes a war crime?

www.dw.com

Do you have any evidence of war crimes being committed by the Israelis?

The UN doesn't consider civilian casualties a war crime....so long as the target was legitimate and every attempt was made to only hit the target.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It seems you do not understand war crimes properly.

You can find out more here:

Israel, Gaza: What are the rules of international law? – DW – 10/22/2023

Israel is retaliating after the Hamas terrorist attacks with massive bombings, a total blockade of the Gaza Strip and possibly a ground offensive. What is covered by international law — and what constitutes a war crime?

www.dw.com

From your article:
The warring parties must differentiate between civilians and combatants, between civilian objects and military targets.
Something Hamas did not do......or maybe they did because they can't stand against the IDF and know it. So they go for soft targets. Nonetheless you hit the aggressor much harder than he hits you to send the proper message. That is exactly what Israel is doing......and good for them.

 

[trophy33]

Do you have any evidence of war crimes being committed by the Israelis?

The UN doesn't consider civilian casualties a war crime....so long as the target was legitimate and every attempt was made to only hit the target.

Only what can be googled.

 

[wing2000]

Unfortunately war is about tit-for-tat. If Russia shoots a nuclear missile at us are we to sit back and say "Oh well, we can't shoot one at them because that would be a war crime"? If your enemy hits you you hit back 10x, 100x, 1000x harder; whatever it takes to get the message across that you are not going to sit back and just take it. Israel is doing just that. And it is too bad that the palestinians are paying for the actions of Hamas but the palestinians can stop that anytime they want by cooperating with countries willing to come in and finish off Hamas. They don't want to do that then that's on them.

How would that have worked exactly? Say in 2022, a group of Palestinians get together and invite countries to "come in and finisht off Hamas"? Which countries would sign up for that?