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Was God's choosing Israel an act of aparteid...

Carl Emerson

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"a policy or system of segregation or discrimination" In South Africa that was based on race. In Israel-Palestine it's based on ethnicity/religion. Palestinians are segregated and discriminated against, systemically, politically, and by literally having walls.

-CryptoLutheran

I have lived in South Africa during Apartheid.

I have also lived in Israel along side Arab workers.

The system in SA was horrendous.

The Arabs I worked with in Israel were well looked after and enjoyed the same rights as any other citizen.

The suggestion that there is a similarity between the two is deeply insulting.
 
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Carl Emerson

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All nations:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in 1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," - Matthew 28:19

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." - 1 Peter 2:9

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." - Galatians 3:28-29

"In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and Assyria will come into Egypt and Egypt into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians.

In that day Israel be the third with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, 'Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance." - Isaiah 19:23-25

"In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it." - Isaiah 2:2

"He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations, and men of every language worshiped Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." - Daniel 7:14

"Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also," - Romans 3:29

"Then Peter began to speak, saying, 'Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right.'" - Acts 10:34-35

-CryptoLutheran

I find your exegesis rather wanting and lacking in reason.

Maybe we should just leave it there -
 
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trophy33

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ViaCrucis

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Time to read Romans 11 again...

especially verse 18

Gentiles certainly don't have room to be arrogant, but the root that supports everything is Jesus Christ. Apart from Christ there are no branches whatsoever.

After all, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" and "God consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all."

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,"

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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GOD knew his elect before the foundations of the earth.

God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. Whether Jew or Gentile. So that in all things we shall not boast in ourselves, but boast in the Lord, by whose grace alone we are saved. For circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but faith in the Messiah is what matters. For we are justified freely by God's grace, through faith, on account of Christ alone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I have lived in South Africa during Apartheid.

I have also lived in Israel along side Arab workers.

The system in SA was horrendous.

The Arabs I worked with in Israel were well looked after and enjoyed the same rights as any other citizen.

The suggestion that there is a similarity between the two is deeply insulting.

And yet, apartheid is exactly what your and my Palestinian brothers and sisters say they experience every day of their lives.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Lost Witness

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God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. Whether Jew or Gentile. So that in all things we shall not boast in ourselves, but boast in the Lord, by whose grace alone we are saved. For circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but faith in the Messiah is what matters. For we are justified freely by God's grace, through faith, on account of Christ alone.

-CryptoLutheran
He did.
Just as he choose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
 
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dzheremi

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I have lived in South Africa during Apartheid.

I have also lived in Israel along side Arab workers.

The system in SA was horrendous.

The Arabs I worked with in Israel were well looked after and enjoyed the same rights as any other citizen.

The suggestion that there is a similarity between the two is deeply insulting.


Meanwhile, here is the Melkite Catholic archbishop of Galilee, Elias Chacour, who is older than the state of Israel itself, and describes himself as equally a citizen of Palestine and of Israel, albeit a second-class citizen of the latter. Is it still insulting coming from someone who has lived there since before Israel was even founded?

 
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ViaCrucis

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He did.
Just as he choose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Correct, all of God's saints, every member of the Body of Christ, is elect in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Carl Emerson

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Gentiles certainly don't have room to be arrogant, but the root that supports everything is Jesus Christ. Apart from Christ there are no branches whatsoever.

After all, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" and "God consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all."

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,"

-CryptoLutheran

Yep fully agree...
 
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Carl Emerson

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And yet, apartheid is exactly what your and my Palestinian brothers and sisters say they experience every day of their lives.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, that is what they are taught to think from a very young age.
 
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Peacemaker1

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Time to read Romans 11 again...

especially verse 18
I think it is time to speak about the verses after verse 18.

First I will begin at verse 18, in chapter 3 of Romans. ( there is no fear of God before their eyes)

Romans 3 is told in Isaiah 59, how the Lord can save ( Israel) but their iniquities separated between you and your God, and your sins hid His face from you, that He will not hear.

Isaiah 59 continues, the way of peace they ( Israel) knows not, no judgement in their goings, they made crooked paths, and whosoever goes on them shall not know peace. ( Preaching peace by Jesus Christ who is Lord of all/ Acts 10:36.)

This is WHY judgment was far off from Israel, justice not coming near, as they waited and are waiting for light, but have obscurity, waiting for brightness but are walking in darkness. Groping for the wall like the blind ( like the blind leaders of the blind. Matthew 15:14.) they grope as if they had no eyes, ( no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:18.) they stumble at noon day, as in the night, desolate places as dead men. ( But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:10. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone. Romans 9:32.)

Isaiah 63 continues, O Lord, why have you made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear?



Isiah 59:1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Isaiah 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

Isaiah 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.


Romans 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.





With that preparation included, now we can see why it is fitting to begin at verse 19. Those branches were broken off because of unbelief, and we stand by faith, by not being highminded, but to fear. ( Israel fell by not fearing God)

Israel also, if they do not continue to be in unbelief, not fearing the Lord, seeing the testimony of who would preach peace, then God can graft them in again.

The deliverer came out of Sion, but for the sake of all, Israel had to take the fall, the Messiah had to be cut off for all, and that is the nation that has the glory together, who can believe in Israel being cut off, and the seed promised cut off, and ourselves cut off too, to be grafted in with God.



Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, that is what they are taught to think from a very young age.

I know you aren't an American, but this sounds a lot like the kind of excuse-making I see in my country when people with power accuse the powerless and oppressed in my country of having a "victim mentality". Denying the realities of systemic racism and injustice built into the systems of power and authority.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Carl Emerson

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I know you aren't an American, but this sounds a lot like the kind of excuse-making I see in my country when people with power accuse the powerless and oppressed in my country of having a "victim mentality". Denying the realities of systemic racism and injustice built into the systems of power and authority.

-CryptoLutheran

In this case we are talking about a terrorist organisation in Government, educating the young to hate Jews.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Dont you think God watches over this process and will intervene to make sure the simple always have written access to Truth?
I am skeptical that he does. I’m not aware that scripture makes that claim.
 
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