Federal judge temporarily halts Tennessee's 'drag ban' law on free speech grounds

[JustOneWay]

Do you honestly not know the difference between dqsh and drag queen shows?

I do. You do not considering you said they are the same.

 

[Servus]

I do. You do not considering you said they are the same.

That's funny considering I've been trying to discuss children at drag queen shows being banned, and basically complained about dqsh being brought into it over and over.

 

[JustOneWay]

That's funny considering I've been trying to discuss children at drag queen shows being banned, and basically complained about dqsh being brought into it over and over.

The law in question bans male or female impersonators, and that includes Drag Queen Story Time, which is not burlesque. Tennessee already has obscenity laws on the books, so this law does nothing more but ban people in drag.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So not wanting children to be exposed to exotic adult entertainment violates the first amendment?

You can want whatever you like. Laws can certainly protect minors from 'adult' entertainment. But some of these laws defined drag to be adult, which is not only absurd, but violates First Amendment freedoms.

 

[Servus]

The law in question bans male or female impersonators, and that includes Drag Queen Story Time, which is not burlesque. Tennessee already has obscenity laws on the books, so this law does nothing more but ban people in drag.

According to what I've read, the Tennessee Adult Entertainment Act, banned public "adult cabaret performance" in public or in front of children in the state of Tennessee.

I saw no mention of drag queen story hour in the bill.

 

[Servus]

Laws can certainly protect minors from 'adult' entertainment. But some of these laws defined drag to be adult, which is not only absurd, but violates First Amendment freedoms.

I've never heard of drag queen shows as being a venue for children. Until recently.

 

[essentialsaltes]

According to what I've read, the Tennessee Adult Entertainment Act, banned public "adult cabaret performance" in public or in front of children in the state of Tennessee.

I saw no mention of drag queen story hour in the bill.

The bill as passed "remov[ed] the wording specifying that the entertainment had to appeal to the prurient interest entirely"

So it bans non-prurient performances by "male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers". DQSH is such a non-prurient performance.

 

[JustOneWay]

According to what I've read, the Tennessee Adult Entertainment Act, banned public "adult cabaret performance" in public or in front of children in the state of Tennessee.

I saw no mention of drag queen story hour in the bill.

The words in the bill are,
"male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers;"

https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/113/Amend/HA0011.pdf

pretty much means Drag Queens.

 

[Servus]

The words in the bill are,
"male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers;"

https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/113/Amend/HA0011.pdf

pretty much means Drag Queens.

"Adult cabaret entertainment": (A) Means adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors, as that term is defined in § 39-17-901, and that feature topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers; and (B) Includes a single performance or multiple performances by an entertainer

That has actually been my objection. That a drag queen nightclub/cabaret performer was along the lines of a go-go or exotic dancer, and that it would it be just as appropriate to have exotic dancers hanging out with kids in their stage outfits in a children's library, even if they were straight cis-gender.

 

[Servus]

The words in the bill are,
"male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers;"

https://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/113/Amend/HA0011.pdf

pretty much means Drag Queens.

Drag queens entertaining children.

 

[keith99]

Drag queens entertaining children.

As written the law would ban most theater productions of Peter Pan and the last couple of Shakespeare plays I attended.

But then Shakespeare wrote a lot of things that the uncultured dislike.

 

[JustOneWay]

Drag queens entertaining children.

With parental (or guardian) supervision.

 

[Servus]

With parental (or guardian) supervision.

That doesn't matter when it's something deemed inappropriate for children.

 

[Servus]

As written the law would ban most theater productions of Peter Pan and the last couple of Shakespeare plays I attended.

But then Shakespeare wrote a lot of things that the uncultured dislike.

Those aren't exotic burlesque cabaret adult nightclub entertainment. Up until recently drag shows were always considered adult entertainment. It's only lately that there's been such a drive to have children involved in it.

 

[JustOneWay]

That doesn't matter when it's something deemed inappropriate for children.

It does matter, but apparently you believe the government (or religion) should take over parenting like the right wants to watch what people are doing in their own bedrooms.

I keep hearing "think of the children" but keep seeing Americans rights dwindling.

 

[Servus]

It does matter, but apparently you believe the government (or religion) should take over parenting like the right wants to watch what people are doing in their own bedrooms.

I keep hearing "think of the children" but keep seeing Americans rights dwindling.

There are laws of age restriction for children and parents have to abide by them. A parent isn't allowed to take their minor child into a bar even if the kid isn't consuming alcohol. Or have their minor child sit next to them while they play a slot machine in a casino. Or take their under 17 year old kid into a theater to see an NC-17 movie etc.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Up until recently drag shows were always considered adult entertainment. It's only lately that there's been such a drive to have children involved in it.

Is there really though? While "drag shows" are generally considered adult entertainment, that's due to the fact that they tend to include adult humor - there is nothing inherently "adult" about dressing up in drag. The drag-related events that are targeted (in a marketing sense) at children and families - like Drag Queen Story Hour - do not include the adult humor that makes the typical drag show "adult entertainment". I don't see anyone arguing (in any sort of organized way, at least) that children should be going to "adult entertainment" drag shows.

As defined by the Tennessee law this thread is about, a performance would have to meet the definition of "harmful to minors" in TN Code 39-17-901, which includes three qualifiers that must all be satisfied, in order to be classified as "adult cabaret entertainment" and thus be banned in public spaces:

“Harmful to minors” means that quality of any description or representation, in whatever form, of nudity, sexual excitement, sexual conduct, excess violence or sadomasochistic abuse when the matter or performance:

1. Would be found by the average person applying contemporary community standards to appeal predominantly to the prurient, shameful or morbid interests of minors;
2. Is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable for minors; and
3. Taken as whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific values for minors;

So, is this an actual problem that exists in Tennessee? Are performances that actually meet those standards being performed in public spaces? If so, when and where? Or is this a law that just drives fear of such a thing happening, leading to discrimination and hatred?

The other issue is that this definition is pretty vague. What are "contemporary community standards"? How are the "prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole" determined? It seems to me that this is something that could easily be abused in order to target performances that are not actually harmful, but that a biased prosecutor believes to be due to his own personal views.

There are laws of age restriction for children and parents have to abide by them. A parent isn't allowed take their minor child into a bar even if the kid isn't consuming alcohol. Or have their minor child sit next to them while they pull a slot machine in a casino. Or take their under 17 year old kid into a theater showing an NC-17 movie.

The drag shows that I've seen have generally lived in the PG-13 to R range in terms of their explicitness. NC-17 movies are pretty much just artsy pr0n. Minors are permitted to watch R-rated movies with adult supervision.

 

[keith99]

It does matter, but apparently you believe the government (or religion) should take over parenting like the right wants to watch what people are doing in their own bedrooms.

I keep hearing "think of the children" but keep seeing Americans rights dwindling.

And it is the ones who are children now who will be the ones to wake up and find all their rights are gone.

Except perhaps the right to get and use guns on people.

 

[JustOneWay]

There are laws of age restriction for children and parents have to abide by them. A parent isn't allowed to take their minor child into a bar even if the kid isn't consuming alcohol. Or have their minor child sit next to them while they play a slot machine in a casino. Or take their under 17 year old kid into a theater to see an NC-17 movie etc.

I have seen many children in bars with their parents. Parents don't take children to bars without food, but many bars sell alcohol and food. A parent certainly is allowed to take their children into a bar if the bar sells food, at least in the state where I live.

We are talking about seeing Drag Queens who are not stripping, not drinking alcohol or seeing a movie with nudity or graphic sexual content.

The law was way too general in the language and that is why it was given a temporary restraining order. The laws on the books already cover bars and movies which can be enforced, we are talking about a law targeting people in drag.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

A good way to gloss over something and downplay it, is saying that there are bigger things to be concerned about, and people are overreacting, and being hysterical etc. But I think you made the real reason for supporting it obvious; which is because Christians object to it.

There's more to it that, which I'm sure you know. But since Christians don't want it happening, that's why it needs to happen.

You have the right not to take your kids to places, that dress up in drag . And kids and adults have been watching this stuff on TV for a long time.