Nebraska governor signs order narrowly defining sex as that assigned at birth

[rjs330]

This nonsense by Pillen refers only to transgender people. He says that if you are, for example, a transwoman then you aren't allowed in a women's restroom. And you are saying that this will protect women from being assaulted by them? Complete and abject nonsense.

What he did not say was that he wanted to protect women from sexual predators who dress as women in order to hang around restrooms to assault women. He didn't need to. There are already laws against that.

What are you saying? Of course it's not nonsense. Just like it's not nonsense to lock your house or your car. Or to lock up jewelery. Yes this law was to help put a barrier b tween women and those that may want to commit crimes against them.

Why are you against protecting women? You are putting transwomen's comfort over real women's safety right?

I believe somewhere you addressed the issue of appearance. Didn't you at one time address this stating that if you look like a dude you shouldn't be in the women's restroom? Or am I think of someone else?

It's the ones that look like dudes that are the issue here. Because we have no idea if they are really trans or just perverts.

Cause no one is going to report that a transwomen who looks like a real woman cause they had all the surgeries etc is using the ladies room.

 

[HARK!]

We're not talking about men. We're talking about transgender people.

Men pretending to be women are men.

 

[Servus]

No, you said to stop people breaking the law we needed to make sure everyone had a license.

'Is anyone going to stop every driver on the highway to make sure their diver's license is valid? No? Well then let's not have a law against driving with an invalid license.'

Thanks for the quote. I'm pretty sure most people can tell what I was really saying.

That sarcasm tells us that you think it's necessary, in order to stop people driving illegally, you need to be able to check that they're allowed to do it. And the only way to do that is to ensure that those who are allowed to drive have a license. So if you want to stop transgender women using a restroom then you need a means to ensure that those who are allowed in there have...a means to prove it.

Wrong. Try again.

Have another think about it and tell us how that's going to be done. Nobody has addressed it whatsoever. Because nobody has thought about how this nonsense pans out. You can be first.

Someone sees a man in a space that's designated for women only, and they report it. You know, like it's already been done for decades here on planet earth.

Have another think about it in reality being a law that doesn't allow a man to go into spaces designated for women and girls only, just because he claims to identify as female.

 

[HARK!]

Right, and if no one saw him go in, then no one could have stopped him, law or no law.

Right, but once someone sees him in there; he can be arrested, instead of letting him hang out there until he creates a victim.

By your reasoning would it be OK to carry a loaded firearm into a bar; so long as no one sees it?

 

[Servus]

Right, and if no one saw him go in, then no one could have stopped him, law or no law.

One of the main reasons for laws is to establish a deterrent. Many people aren't willing to risk getting busted. That's why most people aren't going 90 or more mph on most us freeways, the way the do on Germany's autobahn because it's not illegal to do so.

 

[Servus]

Right, but once someone sees him in there; he can be arrested, instead of letting him hang out there until he creates a victim.

By your reasoning would it be OK to carry a loaded firearm into a bar; so long as no one sees it?

The logic I've been hearing is the only way such a law can work, is that every single person has to be frisked before entering any place where loaded firearms aren't allowed. And that if such a law is put into place, that's exactly what will happen.

 

[HARK!]

The logic I've been hearing is the only way such a law can work, is that every single person has to be frisked before entering any place where loaded firearms aren't allowed. And that if such a law is put into place, that's exactly what will happen.

I used that example because even if the person who carried in the gun, used it to rightly defend himself (in other words didn't commit any other crime) ; he could, and probably would, be charged for carrying the gun into the bar in the first place.

Carrying the gun into the bar presents an undue danger for violence to escalate, just as letting men hang out in a women's shower room.

 

[RileyG]

And you're going to stand at the door and ask personal questions of literaly every women who wants to enter and demand a birth certificate and maybe a blood sample. A sworn statement maybe. Do you have access to a lie detector? Keep a bible handy. And of course a copy of their police record if they have one. I'd recommend school and medical records. And a marriage certificate. If all else fails, a genital inspection by a qualified medical practitioner.

Nope.

 

[Servus]

And you're going to stand at the door and ask personal questions of literaly every women who wants to enter and demand a birth certificate and maybe a blood sample. A sworn statement maybe. Do you have access to a lie detector? Keep a bible handy. And of course a copy of their police record if they have one. I'd recommend school and medical records. And a marriage certificate. If all else fails, a genital inspection by a qualified medical practitioner.

Wouldn't be more practical to have them all swab their mouth for an on-location DNA testing device operated by AI? Or just have the AI device programmed to be on the lookout for the telltale man hands?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Men pretending to be women are men.

They are, but we're talking about transgender people. Legally, they are not "men pretending to be women" - no matter what your opinion of the matter is.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Right, but once someone sees him in there; he can be arrested, instead of letting him hang out there until he creates a victim.

Sure, but that's not what happened here. Again, he was able to evade notice until a victim came along.

By your reasoning would it be OK to carry a loaded firearm into a bar; so long as no one sees it?

That's not my reasoning. I did not claim that it was "okay for a man to go in the women's restroom so long as no one sees him". What I said was that banning people who were born with male genitals from the women's restroom isn't going to deter people who are already willing to violate the laws against rape and sexual assault.

Likewise, banning guns from bars does not deter people who are already willing to violate the laws against murder. However, it does make some level of sense due to the circumstances of what goes on in bars - lowered inhibitions/impaired judgement due to alcohol, and a higher prevalence of physical and verbal altercations.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I used that example because even if the person who carried in the gun, used it to rightly defend himself (in other words didn't commit any other crime) ; he could, and probably would, be charged for carrying the gun into the bar in the first place.

Only in 14 states: No Guns in Bars

Carrying the gun into the bar presents an undue danger for violence to escalate, just as letting men hang out in a women's shower room.

Framing it this way is both dishonest (we're not talking about "letting men hang out in a women's shower room") and, frankly, offensive. The implication that having a penis makes you a slave to your base animal instincts is just flat out wrong.

 

[HARK!]

They are, but we're talking about transgender people. Legally, they are not "men pretending to be women" - no matter what your opinion of the matter is.

They legally are in Nebraska.

We're talking about Men in Nebraska. Men are men in Nebraska -" no matter what your opinion of the matter is."

 

[HARK!]

Sure, but that's not what happened here. Again, he was able to evade notice until a victim came along.

..and if he had been noticed beforehand, a victim could have been saved.

That's not my reasoning. I did not claim that it was "okay for a man to go in the women's restroom so long as no one sees him". What I said was that banning people who were born with male genitals from the women's restroom isn't going to deter people who are already willing to violate the laws against rape and sexual assault.

That's not actually what you said. You said "stopped," not deterred. Your statement was debunked.,

Likewise, banning guns from bars does not deter people who are already willing to violate the laws against murder. However, it does make some level of sense due to the circumstances of what goes on in bars - lowered inhibitions/impaired judgement due to alcohol, and a higher prevalence of physical and verbal altercations.

It makes sense in shower rooms too, where there are lowered inhibitions/impaired judgement due to raging hormones.

 

[HARK!]

Framing it this way is both dishonest (we're not talking about "letting men hang out in a women's shower room") and, frankly, offensive.

No it's not.

The implication that having a penis makes you a slave to your base animal instincts is just flat out wrong.

Strawman. Those are your words, not mine.

 

[HARK!]

we're not talking about "letting men hang out in a women's shower room

That is actually a major point in this discussion.

 

[Bradskii]

Cause no one is going to report that a transwomen who looks like a real woman cause they had all the surgeries etc is using the ladies room.

Pillen didn't say 'keep out all the transwomen who don't look like women.' He meant all transwomen need to be kept out of restrooms. That means you need to be able to determine whom was born a biological male to stop them gaining access. That's his aim.

Any bright ideas about how to do that? Any clever suggestions as to how it's going to be done? Apparently some people think they smell differently. No, seriously. And talk differently. And perspire more. And the law has been compared to needing a driving licence to ensure you're allowed to drive. So maybe some certification then to show that you're a 'real woman'.

Put some thought into it and let me know. Because nobody has the slightest idea of how to do it. Because nobody has thought this through. All we've had is a litany of knee jerk reactions.

 

[HARK!]

Any bright ideas about how to do that? Any clever suggestions as to how it's going to be done? Apparently some people think they smell differently. No, seriously. And talk differently. And perspire more. And the law has been compared to needing a driving licence to ensure you're allowed to drive. So maybe some certification then to show that you're a 'real woman'.

Pillen says that what is on your BC is what you are. That is what will appear on your DL. There's no need for another document.

If someone reports a suspicious figure; the police can ask that suspicious person to produce ID, to verify that they have a right to be there. If they won't cooperate; the police can certify their gender in lockup. We've already been over this.

 

[Bradskii]

Have another think about it in reality being a law that doesn't allow a man to go into spaces designated for women and girls only, just because he claims to identify as female.

So how do you differentiate a trans woman and a woman who was born biologically female? This is what you and everyone else has been avoiding all through the thread. Pillen wasn't saying 'keep people out of restrooms if they look like a man'. He was saying keep ALL transwomen out of restrooms.

So how do you intend telling the difference? Do you still want to go with the BulgeOmatic or check the timbre of their voice? Maybe how wet their armpits are? Please let me know.

 

[Bradskii]

Nope.

Then how are you going to know if someone was born biologically male of female so you can prevent them entering?