God Disqualified Christians From Participating in the Mosaic Law Covenant

[GDL]

The Law (or Principle) of Liberty (Jas 1:25; 2:12)is found in [Gospel] Truth (Jn 17:17)

Please explain this point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You haven't really answered diddly. But you're good at equivocating. Quite skilled at it actually. For example, you first said the book the law were the curses that were placed beside the ark. Then you made the subtle change, due to my questions, that the curses were "contained" in the book of the law, implying there was other content in the book.

For example, to show you a subtle change like this can have disastrous effects on the bible's truth claims, I'll apply your change of words to the Word of God with this example. It's one thing to say that the bible IS the inspired, authoritative, infallible Word of God, but something else altogether to say the bible contains or includes the inspired, authoritative, infallible Word of God. The first statement tells us what ALL the bible IS in its very nature -- in its essence, since it's an unqualified statement. While the second statement clearly qualifies implicitly what the bible is since it only contains or includes the inspired word, implying different content is also contained in the bible -- or at least could be contained therein.

Don't think I don't see your cute slight of hands.

I’m going to post the scriptures because I don’t think you’re reading the references. I’m not saying anything, I am carefully quoting the scriptures. Our opinions really do not mean much when it comes to God’s Word, which is why it’s important to study the scriptures very carefully and pray to the Holy Spirit to guide and correct before reading and allow the scriptures to interpret itself, they do not need our help.


The only law inside the ark of the covenant are the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 40:20. He took the Testimony and put it into the ark, inserted the poles through the rings of the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark.

All other laws were placed outside of the ark. These include ordinances, statues, judgements and any other law that is not included in the Ten Commandments.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Part of what was placed on the outside the ark which was called the “book of the law” contained curses (col 2:14-17 KJV Eph 2:15- not everything was curses) written by Moses, God personally wrote the Ten Commandments and this was not the first time the Israelites(or God’s people) knew about these commandments, but it was the first time God addressed an entire nation and not only spoke the commandments- He personally wrote them. Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16, Exo 4:13, Exo 34:28 it is His perfect law Psa 19:7 and they reflect His holy character and we were created in His image to be holy like He is and we can either choose to obey or choose another path Rom 6:16

Deut 29:20 “The Lord would not spare him; for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven. 21 And the Lord would separate him from all the tribes of Israel for adversity, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this Book of the Law,

The curses served as a witness against for rebellion against obeying God‘s Ten Commandments.

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you; 27 for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If today, while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the Lord, then how much more after my death?

Keeping the commandments brings blessings and peace Deut 7:9-11 Isa 48:18, Psalms 119:165 Rev 22:14 not keeping them is a curse (the wages of sin is death) which is what Gal 3:10-13 is referring to the curses that was OUTSIDE the ark for not obeying what was inside the ark the Ten Commandments, which was a copy of what is in God’s Temple in heaven Rev 11:19

Jesus became that curse for us and took the penalty for sin, we would be given for breaking God’s law and sinning Rom 6:23 So instead of sacrificing animals for our sins, we are in the New Covenant we can go directly to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb 1 Cor 5:7 Heb 10:1-10 and is now our High Priest and Advocate and His blood can cleanse us of all sin, all we need to do is redeem this promise.

I have never once changed my story, its not my story, its the story of God’s Word and I try to not to add anything to it because when we start adding things that are not in the scripture, it no longer becomes God’s pure Word Pro 30:5-6 and that is not sanctifying only God’s Word is, His Truth. John 17:17

 

[SabbathBlessings]

They won't read it. The sabbatarians don't believe in interpreting God's Word in its historical-cultural context. They'd much prefer to impose their 21st century presuppositions upon the holy scriptures. But you're absolutely right! It is absolutely amazing of how God's "treaty" with Israel so closely mirrored the format of those pagan suzerain treaties. Even down to the detail of the Land. The pagans all had their gods that ruled over their land. Likewise, the Landlord of all the Earth gave Land to this chosen "tenants" and made a treaty with them that consisted of all his laws that acted as the terms and conditions for remaining in HIS land; AND the tenants (vassals) agreed to adhere to the their Lord's terms and conditions.

This must be your way of saying you do not have answers to my questions. Thanks.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But you ignore the fact that God promised to write his laws on the hearts of his NC people. So, WHAT laws would those be?

And God cannot possibly be adding to his Ten laws or subtracting from them because that is forbidden in the Law (Deut 4:2; 12:32).

You still have the same insurmountable problem.

If you quit equivocating so much, I would ask far fewer questions. So, now you say "PART" of the book contained curses? What else was in the book? Do you know? If you don't, don't be ashamed to admit it. But if you do know, then please inform us what ELSE was in the book besides curses?

It’s still the Ten Commandments written in the hearts and minds of God’s people, now instead of the people doing, it is God doing Heb 8:10, Jer 31:33, now instead of it being engraved in stone, it is engraved in our hearts, kept through love and faith 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31 Rev 22:14. This is what Jesus wants, our hearts changed from the inside out, all we need to do is embrace the gift God is giving us which is peace and eternal happiness Isa 48:18 Rev 22:14

 

[Doran]

I’m going to post the scriptures because I don’t think you’re reading the references. I’m not saying anything, I am carefully quoting the scriptures. Our opinions really do not mean much when it comes to God’s Word, which is why it’s important to study the scriptures very carefully and pray to the Holy Spirit to guide and correct before reading and allow the scriptures to interpret itself, they do not need our help.


The only law inside the ark of the covenant are the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 40:20. He took the Testimony and put it into the ark, inserted the poles through the rings of the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark.

All other laws were placed outside of the ark. These include ordinances, statues, judgements and any other law that is not included in the Ten Commandments.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Part of what was placed on the outside the ark which was called the “book of the law” contained curses (col 2:14-17 KJV Eph 2:15- not everything was curses) written by Moses, God personally wrote the Ten Commandments and this was not the first time the Israelites(or God’s people) knew about these commandments, but it was the first time God addressed an entire nation and not only spoke the commandments- He personally wrote them. Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16, Exo 4:13, Exo 34:28 it is His perfect law Psa 19:7 and they reflect His holy character and we were created in His image to be holy like He is and we can either choose to obey or choose another path Rom 6:16

Deut 29:20 “The Lord would not spare him; for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven. 21 And the Lord would separate him from all the tribes of Israel for adversity, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this Book of the Law,

The curses served as a witness against for rebellion against obeying God‘s Ten Commandments.

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you; 27 for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If today, while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the Lord, then how much more after my death?

Keeping the commandments brings blessings and peace Deut 7:9-11 Isa 48:18, Psalms 119:165 Rev 22:14 not keeping them is a curse (the wages of sin is death) which is what Gal 3:10-13 is referring to the curses that was OUTSIDE the ark for not obeying what was inside the ark the Ten Commandments, which was a copy of what is in God’s Temple in heaven Rev 11:19

Jesus became that curse for us and took the penalty for sin, we would be given for breaking God’s law and sinning Rom 6:23 So instead of sacrificing animals for our sins, we are in the New Covenant we can go directly to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb 1 Cor 5:7 Heb 10:1-10 and is now our High Priest and Advocate and His blood can cleanse us of all sin, all we need to do is redeem this promise.

I have never once changed my story, its not my story, its the story of God’s Word and I try to not to add anything to it because when we start adding things that are not in the scripture, it no longer becomes God’s pure Word Pro 30:5-6 and that is not sanctifying only God’s Word is, His Truth. John 17:17

Thanks for the sermon.

So, what else was in the book of the law that "CONTAINED" cursed, but not exclusively What ELSE was in the Book of the Law? Fairy Tales? Pagan myths? Jewish recipes?

 

[Doran]

It’s still the Ten Commandments written in the hearts and minds of God’s people, now instead of the people doing, it is God doing Heb 8:10, Jer 31:33, now instead of it being engraved in stone, it is engraved in our hearts, kept through love and faith 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31 Rev 22:14. This is what Jesus wants, our hearts changed from the inside out, all we need to do is embrace the gift God is giving us which is peace and eternal happiness Isa 48:18 Rev 22:14

So, if it's only the Ten Commandments that are written on people's hearts, then it's perfectly okay for people live any kind of life they want, as long as they don't violate any of the 10, correct? If they want to fornicate, that's okay, right? If they want to live a homosexual lifestyle, that's okay, too? If they're in to pedophilia, that's cool? And they don't have to worry about expressing love for a neighbor by doing good to them,since 9 of the 10 are negative imperatives, right?

Also, for your info "the law" (whatever that may mean to you) has always been written on people's' hearts (Rom 2:14-15), so how is that "new" wrinkle in the NC?

 

[Doran]

This must be your way of saying you do not have answers to my questions. Thanks.

Actually, it was my way of saying you don't have any with regards to mine. Once you nilly willy ignore the ancient historical-cultural context of scripture, you can make it say ANYTHING your little heart desires.

 

[Doran]

Find it in scripture and we will both know.

no need to go any further than the first chapter of James to see what the law of liberty is.

Well, enlighten us, please. Why should I find it so that YOU and I should know? You mean to say, you don't know already?

Meanwhile, work on falsifying my syllogistic argument. By now you should know how the drill works. All you need to do is falsify one of the premises.

Oh wait...I think I see something. You might be right...v.18 says that "He chose to give us birth through the Law..." Unless I'm misreading it. I misplaced by glasses.

Or wait ...could it be v.22? Do not merely listen to the word [of truth]?

Help a brudda out here, will ya?

 

[Doran]

C'mon, you sabbath-keepers, don't any of you know what the full content of the Old Covenant was? You're not going to leave a guy, hangin' are ya? I'm dying to know.

 

[GDL]

So, what else was in the book of the law that "CONTAINED" cursed, but not exclusively What ELSE was in the Book of the Law? Fairy Tales? Pagan myths? Jewish recipes?

Just tapping into the discussion to ask about this Book of the Law that's being made such a big issue.

Since attempts to make clear that the Law of Moses (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law) and the Covenant God made with Moses and Israel (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Covenant) (maybe this language will suit @HIM better since he seems to not like "Mosaic", which is not unlike Abrahamic, or Hebraic, or Aramaic, or...the word ending simply meaning of or in relation to - like the language of the Arameans was the Aramaic language) were a unit, don't these phrases seem to be interchangeable? (I'm not really doing the homework, but it seems there were a lot of books, or maybe just one Book known by different titles because Law and Covenant were basically a unified pair identified with both YHWH and Moses):

• The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
• The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
• The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
• The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

I wonder if when this Book was found, it had written in it what was written on the stone tablets...

 

[HIM]

Well, enlighten us, please. Why should I find it so that YOU and I should know? You mean to say, you don't know already?

There is no Mosaic law covenant in scripture.

 

[HIM]

Just tapping into the discussion to ask about this Book of the Law that's being made such a big issue.

Since attempts to make clear that the Law of Moses (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law) and the Covenant God made with Moses and Israel (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Covenant)

There is no Mosaic law covenant in scripture, And the Old covenant is never referred to as the Mosaic covenant.

 

[Leaf473]

Pride is the issue here.

If we think we are learned we will never learn. And yes this applies to me also.

Say, Him, if you're interested in learning, I'd suggest posting the results of your method. I'm talking about actual scripture passages, like this

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 25:6 - New American Standard Bible

All of you shall have the Sabbath produce of the land as food; for yourself, your male and female slaves, and your hired worker and your foreign resident, those who live as strangers among you.

www.biblegateway.com

And you could say whether that was to be done today or not. Last time we talked about this kind of thing, I think you said that I wouldn't be able to understand your explanation.

I think if you post the actual scriptures, you will learn something. Or I will learn something. Or both!

Either way, we know that all scripture is beneficial.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3:16 - New American Standard Bible

All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness;

www.biblegateway.com

 

[GDL]

There is no Mosaic law covenant in scripture.

There is no Mosaic law covenant in scripture, And the Old covenant is never referred to as the Mosaic covenant.

I and scores of other students, teachers, scholars of the Text disagree with you. So does our beloved Text. All of God's major covenants with men have been labeled similarly for ease of discussion - e.g. Adamic or Edenic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic. The Mosaic Covenant is very simply put, a Law Covenant consisting of what is commonly called the Mosaic Law based upon the Text calling it the Law of Moses. Thus the Mosaic Law Covenant is simply reasoning being applied.

Need I go back to the old and tired argument of "Trinity" not being in the Text?

And why did you not quote all of my post? This is a pretty common practice of yours BTW. Did you not care for the English lesson? What do you think all that "Book of..." terminology refers to - the same Book or many Books? No reasoned response?

Your simplistic refusals should probably just be met with the youthful, "it is too" - it is not - it is too - IS NOT - IS TOO...

 

[Doran]

Please explain this point.

I was thinking about that last night. It would have been better if I had made the 7th premise (Jn 8:32) the major one and and the first premise the second. Would you agree. This way the the current first premise would establish that God's Word is truth that sets men free. Agree? I also have another tweak in mind, but it's not major. Just those two verses that I thought of last night whereby Paul equates the "word of truth" with the Gospel.

 

[Doran]

There is no Mosaic law covenant in scripture, And the Old covenant is never referred to as the Mosaic covenant.

Jer 31:31-32
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the LORD.
NIV

So...what covenant did God make with Israel after He led them out of Egypt? I assume this historic covenant, and its terms and conditions, is recorded in scripture, since it's spoken of so much? And chapter and verse, please.

 

[GDL]

I was thinking about that last night. It would have been better if I had made the 7th premise (Jn 8:32) the major one and and the first premise the second. Would you agree. This way the the current first premise would establish that God's Word is truth that sets men free. Agree? I also have another tweak in mind, but it's not major. Just those two verses that I thought of last night whereby Paul equates the "word of truth" with the Gospel.

Wondered if you had wandered off! I'll take a look. My initial read was that the connection had not been established yet. Honestly, I'm having to work to follow and confirm within your methodology. I use a similar one to do word studies where I take all occurrences of a word, list them all, harmonize them, summarize them, conclude the meaning as God uses the subject word. It's a lot of work, as I think you well know.

BTW, did you see my #120? It was a lot clearer in my thoughts than it came out in writing because I tried to lay out my process so it could be part of any review. The moral of the story is that 1Tim1 & 1Tim6 are bookends (Paul structured Romans similarly) and I agree with you re: who the righteous are in 1Tim1:9. Importantly for me, I think the clarity is in 1Tim itself. Paul is most simply just dealing with a Gospel vs. Law issue for the Believer - the Righteous (imputed and growing/pursuing). IMO it ends up being one of the strongest statements Paul makes on the matter (if one considers dead to the Law & not under the Law not strong enough!). In 1Tim IMO he's speaking of validity, basically when walking in Spirit in Christ.

 

[Doran]

Just tapping into the discussion to ask about this Book of the Law that's being made such a big issue.

Since attempts to make clear that the Law of Moses (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law) and the Covenant God made with Moses and Israel (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Covenant) (maybe this language will suit @HIM better since he seems to not like "Mosaic", which is not unlike Abrahamic, or Hebraic, or Aramaic, or...the word ending simply meaning of or in relation to - like the language of the Arameans was the Aramaic language) were a unit, don't these phrases seem to be interchangeable? (I'm not really doing the homework, but it seems there were a lot of books, or maybe just one Book known by different titles because Law and Covenant were basically a unified pair identified with both YHWH and Moses):

• The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
• The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
• The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
• The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

I wonder if when this Book was found, it had written in it what was written on the stone tablets...

Ah...you beat me to it! But you did forget two. LOL! The Book of the Law of God (Josh 24:26; Neh 8:8) and The Book of the Law of Moses (Josh 8:31). I wonder if all these books that go by different names are themselves different? Or are they all one and the same -- making the names interchangeable. There "might" be a big hint in here somewhere if we compare the bolded cites, including the one in your post. LOL!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jer 31:31-32
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the LORD.
NIV

So...what covenant did God make with Israel after He led them out of Egypt? I assume this historic covenant, and its terms and conditions, is recorded in scripture, since it's spoken of so much? And chapter and verse, please.

It will not be like the same agreement, because its based on better promises -Heb 8:6 from the people doing to God doing.

Sin is still the same in the OC and NC and is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 which is why Jesus and the apostles teach on keeping God's commandments instead of saying those are the OC we can freely worship other gods, bow to images or break any of the least of these commandments which is contrary to what Jesus taught by example and through His teachings and what James said clearly James 2:10-12.

Sin separated man from God Isa 59:2 those who overcome through Jesus Christ Rev 14:12 will be reconciled Rev 22:14-15

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Just tapping into the discussion to ask about this Book of the Law that's being made such a big issue.

Since attempts to make clear that the Law of Moses (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Law) and the Covenant God made with Moses and Israel (commonly referred to as the Mosaic Covenant) (maybe this language will suit @HIM better since he seems to not like "Mosaic", which is not unlike Abrahamic, or Hebraic, or Aramaic, or...the word ending simply meaning of or in relation to - like the language of the Arameans was the Aramaic language) were a unit, don't these phrases seem to be interchangeable? (I'm not really doing the homework, but it seems there were a lot of books, or maybe just one Book known by different titles because Law and Covenant were basically a unified pair identified with both YHWH and Moses):

• The Book of the Law 2Kings22:11; Deut28:61
• The Book of the Covenant 2Kings23:2; Ex24:7
• The Book of the Law of YHWH 2Chron17:9
• The Law in the Book of Moses 2Chron25:4

I wonder if when this Book was found, it had written in it what was written on the stone tablets...

Where in scripture does it say more than the Ten Commandments was written by the finger of God. Where in scripture does it say anything other than the Ten was placed inside the ark?