What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

[Diamond72]

Why? There are protests in DC all of the time.

Then it should not have gotten out of hand. Clearly the situation got out of control. So they were not prepared. The government has to be held accountable for that. There are no excuses. I am stupid, or ignorant, or I did not know the protest was going to get out of control is simply NOT an excuse. Even boy scouts know to be prepared.

Of course, this works both ways. Trump should have known also. Hard to pick sides when both sides are wrong.

 

[Diamond72]

2020 riots that caused 5 billion in damages

That amount was for every city, not just Washington. ALSO this is the cost of making sure something like this could never happen again. The actual damage was not even in the Billions. Unless of course you are paying $800 for an $8 hammer. They do not need an excuse to spend 5 billion on payola.

The damage was nothing in comparison to one round of ammo in Bidens war with Russia.

In April 2022, Raytheon Missiles and Defense won a potential $3.2 billion contract award from the U.S. Navy. The base award for the first year is $651 million. If all four option periods are exercised, it could potentially receive an additional $2.5 billion.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Then it should not have gotten out of hand. Clearly the situation got out of control. So they were not prepared. The government has to be held accountable for that. There are no excuses. I am stupid, or ignorant, or I did not know the protest was going to get out of control is simply NOT an excuse. Even boy scouts know to be prepared.

The actual permits for the events near the Capitol was for a few hundred each. The organizers of the Ellipse rally said there would be no "march" when they got their permit. Trump then repeatedly said *he* would lead them to the Capitol. (A violation of the permit.)

That's all before we talk about the organized groups that planned an attack. (Well, they are the topic of this thread).

I believe some heads did roll in the USCP leadership. More should have in DHS "Intel", but I think they passed the buck. (The excerpts from the upcoming Romney book include a message from Sen. Romney to Sen. McConnell on Jan 3 where he makes it clear that he is concerned about things building toward the 6th.)

But, the blame does not evenly divide between the attackers and those that inadequately prepared for a potential attack. The ultimate blame must be on the attackers, especially those that lead the attack. I'm satisfied with 22 years for Mr. Tarrio's responsibility.

Of course, this works both ways. Trump should have known also. Hard to pick sides when both sides are wrong.

Trump *wanted* it to happen. He seems to be aware that it would happen and may have even expected it.

 

[Diamond72]

But, the blame does not evenly divide between the attackers and those that inadequately prepared for a potential attack.

They were not doing their job, period the end. They should be fired and hire someone that can get the job done. Perhaps that is what happened. I am sure they have safeguards so this could not happen again. We are talking about the capital. If they cannot secure that, then what are they able to secure? Of course a lot of their security is underground, and that is what they did do that day.

 

[KCfromNC]

Did you see the Iowa football game??? 90% of the people there were cheering for him. This happens all the time. Huge giant crowds, cheering him on. Exact opposite wherever Biden goes. But Biden got 15 million more votes than Obama?????

Perhaps voters not on the far right are more concerned about policies rather than public displays of support for a cult of personality.

Not to mention the issues with sampling here - I mean, is anyone contesting that Iowa went for Trump?

 

[BurningBush84]

The facts are Dems fought tooth and nail to prevent policies that help ensure a honest and fair election. Why did they do that ? Because they cannot win a fair and honest election. Obama got cheered wherever he went, very popular President. Biden allegedly got 15 million more votes than Obama yet gets booed almost everywhere he goes.

 

[KCfromNC]

The facts are Dems fought tooth and nail to prevent policies that help ensure a honest and fair election.

Again, assertions like these were plentiful from the far right most everywhere, except for situations where there are actual penalties for lying. Anyone wonder why that might be?

 

[SimplyMe]

The facts are Dems fought tooth and nail to prevent policies that help ensure a honest and fair election. Why did they do that ? Because they cannot win a fair and honest election. Obama got cheered wherever he went, very popular President. Biden allegedly got 15 million more votes than Obama yet gets booed almost everywhere he goes.

It is good that Trump wasn't indicted for claiming there was Election Fraud, or anything else to do with Free Speech. The indictment dealing with the election was with Trump working to overturn the Constitutional process for certifying the election, trying to put forth his own electors in the place of the electors that were legally certified by five different states. He had over 60 court challenges, though in none of them did his lawyers assert there was fraud, and most of the cases were dismissed for lack of evidence. He had his AG look for election fraud, he paid groups to try and find that fraud, and none of them actually found any.

Seriously, if this were a Democrat screaming election fraud and trying to change the certified results by illegal means, you'd want them executed (or locked up for life) for treason. Yet for some reason you keep making excuses when Trump did the same thing.

 

[BurningBush84]

Interesting assertion.



In what way?


That's false.



When an argument retreats from assertions to pure fantasy I'm not really sure there's anything more to say.


Another falsehood. Seems to be a pattern.


Perhaps there's actually reasons to believe this. But what is strange - in places where there are actual penalties for lying, these sorts of assertions were abandoned. Kinda telling, wouldn't you think?

Where is the penalty for all these hundreds of people making sworn affidavits that claim they witnessed election fraud ????

If these were fabricated lies, these people should be penalized .

Hundreds of sworn affidavits were made that claim they witnessed fraud. Where are these people now ? How come their not being punished for lying ????

Or is that coming next ???

 

[essentialsaltes]

Where is the penalty for all these hundreds of people making sworn affidavits that claim they witnessed election fraud ????

If these were fabricated lies, these people should be penalized .

Hundreds of sworn affidavits were made that claim they witnessed fraud. Where are these people now ? How come their not being punished for lying ????

Or is that coming next ???

Affidavits that contain vague or second-hand accounts may be hard to prove as false. There are also many scenarios where a witness just misunderstands the situation or is mistaken in what they believe they heard or saw.

For instance, in the Trump vs. Wayne County case cited above, Judge Kenny wrote in his ruling, “Plaintiffs’ affiants did not have full understanding of TCF absent ballot tabulation.” He said if plaintiffs’ affiants would have participated in pre-election training sessions, they would have had a better understanding of the process. Many claims could be easily explained by election officials.

So technically - yes - if a person signs an affidavit with false information, they could be charged with perjury. But proving the person willfully lied can prove to be quite difficult in many cases.

--

It's not worth going after boneheads who didn't know what they were talking about in affidavits that were generally dismissed as non-evidence and therefore had no effect on anything in these lawsuits that went nowhere.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Or is that coming next ???

You can't even get disbarred for lying. A judge wags his finger at you and fines you a couple hunnerd bucks.

Ex-Trump attorney admits statements about 2020 election were false and is censured by judge​

[Jenna] Ellis signed a stipulation stating that several comments she made about the 2020 election violated professional ethics rules barring reckless, knowing or intentional misrepresentations by attorneys, according to documents posted by Colorado’s Office of Attorney Regulation Counsel. As part of the stipulation, Ellis agrees to pay $224.

 

[Pommer]

Where is the penalty for all these hundreds of people making sworn affidavits that claim they witnessed election fraud ????

If these were fabricated lies, these people should be penalized .

Hundreds of sworn affidavits were made that claim they witnessed fraud. Where are these people now ? How come their not being punished for lying ????

Or is that coming next ???

“But the affidavits!” ?
How come there was no “election fraud” in states that Trump won?

 

[comana]

Did you see the Iowa football game??? 90% of the people there were cheering for him. This happens all the time. Huge giant crowds, cheering him on. Exact opposite wherever Biden goes. But Biden got 15 million more votes than Obama????? Obama got cheered like crazy , unreal how popular he was. It's the opposite with Biden.

Not to mention Biden is obviously very senile. Mumbling , stumbling, mush mouth, who admits he is just a puppet. If he truly got 81 million he would draw cheering crowds bigger than Trump. But he gets booed almost everywhere he goes. Should be all paper ballots, hand counted. But that makes cheating harder. And the Dems can't have that.

Trump only goes where he knows he’ll have his crowd. Let’s see him try that in a deep blue state.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Trump only goes where he knows he’ll have his crowd. Let’s see him try that in a deep blue state.

Trump did appear at the blue Washington DC game in 2019 and got booed unmercifully,

 

[Bradskii]

Unsubscribing. Can't take more of this...

 

[jacks]

What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

The message is sends to me is "Don't mess with the elite." Want to burn down a small business? Fine. Just don't disturb the people who actually make the rules.

 

[Pommer]

What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

The message is sends to me is "Don't mess with the elite." Want to burn down a small business? Fine. Just don't disturb the people who actually make the rules.

Yea, the 535 members of the Legislative Branch are “the elite”, well spotted!

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a clean up of problem posts and some that responded to those posts.

Flaming one group or the , by calling them "evil" for example, is not okay. Posting offtopic can become trolling.

Stick to the topic and keep it civil. ​

 

[BurningBush84]

So Ray Epps ONLY gets a 500 $ fine ?????

He admitted to orchestrating the entrance into the capital. It's clown world. If he wasn't a fed he would have gotten life .

 

[essentialsaltes]

So Ray Epps ONLY gets a 500 $ fine ?????

He has not been sentenced yet. Though the guidelines are 0 to 6 months.

He admitted to orchestrating the entrance into the capital.

The charge he pleaded guilty to was engaging in disorderly or disruptive conduct in a restricted building or grounds

If he wasn't a fed he would have gotten life .

He's not a fed. The Attorney General said so today in testimony to Congress, and also:

Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Gordon read a statement into the record due to the “unusual nature of the case” that affirmed Epps “was not before, during or after” the Capitol riot “a confidential source or an undercover agent for the government, the FBI, DHS or any law enforcement.”