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What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

Diamond72

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He didn't plan those missions or give those orders.
Everyone has a choice. Just because his father was the chief war monger, does not mean he had to be a war monger. Life is always the right choice because God tells us to choose life. Death and destruction is never the right choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live".
 
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Pommer

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That is not what the Bible says. I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me. Deuteronomy.
Do you, as a Christian, live under the Covenant that was forged betwixt YHWH and the Israelites?
Huh.
While presiding over the Senate, the Vice President's primary duty is to maintain order, recognize speakers, and ensure that Senate proceedings adhere to established rules and procedures.He failed to do his job and he failed to maintain order.
Yeah, well there was this riot, see, with people in it calling him to be hanged, so he had to adjourn the proceedings until later that evening and they certified that Joesph R Biden had won the 2020 Presidential Election.

In fact, a lot of people accused him of causing the insurrection that day. It was his job to shut it down until they could establish order.
Name six
 
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Pommer

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Everyone has a choice. Just because his father was the chief war monger, does not mean he had to be a war monger. Life is always the right choice because God tells us to choose life. Death and destruction is never the right choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live".
Why do you think it is “okay” to slander John McCain?
(Oh, that’s right, he’s dead.)
 
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Diamond72

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Why do you think it is “okay” to slander John McCain?
(Oh, that’s right, he’s dead.)
Dead in his sin maybe. I think it is okay to slander any warmonger. God has called us to peace, not war and violence. I do not approve of the "proud boy" violence, but it communicates a message that war monger government can relate to. Neither are justified and both are just as guilty. Our constitution gives us the right to peaceful protest. I just do not see how we can accuse one without accusing the other. That includes Pence for the part he played in all of this. Maybe even Trump because they claim he did not have a peaceful transfer of power.

Obiden was grateful with the Bush administration for the peaceful transfer of power. He wanted to maintain that tradition with a peaceful transfer of power to Trump. It would seem Trump did not want to maintain that tradition.

The only thing funny about all of this is Biden was not worried at all. He knew that he could go in and evict Trump from the white house if need be.
 
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Hans Blaster

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That is not what the Bible says. I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me. Deuteronomy.

but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, (US Constitution, Article III, Section 3)

"Punishment for treason may not "work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person" so convicted. The descendants of someone convicted for treason could not, as they were under English law, be considered "tainted" by the treason of their ancestor."

To punish for the crimes of ones parents would be monsterous and immoral.

While presiding over the Senate, the Vice President's primary duty is to maintain order, recognize speakers, and ensure that Senate proceedings adhere to established rules and procedures.

On Electoral Count Day, the VP's role is as such
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; (Amendment 12)

He failed to do his job and he failed to maintain order.
There was no loss of order in the House Chamber during the counting of votes in joint session. An objection to a slate was properly made and the two houses adjourned to their respective chambers to debate the objection. During the first objection (to the Arizona slate of electors) the security of the Capitol was breached and the proceedings were suspended until order was restored to the building. VP Pence did his job before and after the suspension in the actual counting of certified electoral votes.
In fact, a lot of people accused him of causing the insurrection that day.
Oh good grief, Pence did his job. I really don't care what a group of insurrectionists say about Mike Pence on Jan 6th, 2001. After all, they were the ones calling for his execution.

It was his job to shut it down until they could establish order.


Like I said earlier in this post. There was no loss of order until the mob breached the building. The members of Congress did not breach the order in the chamber, it was the mob.
 
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Diamond72

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Do you, as a Christian, live under the Covenant that was forged betwixt YHWH and the Israelites?
Huh.
Yes and no. We are required to follow the righteous requirements of the law. If we want to be right with God. The idea that we somehow are forgiven no matter what we do, is just not true. Clearly we reap what we sow. The Grace of God and the Blood of Jesus can cleanse us from our transgression.
so he had to adjourn the proceedings until later
They should have adjourned as soon as they found out that there was going to be a protest. Of course they know now the whole thing should have been handled different from the way it was handled.
Did you not drink your coffee today. Are you still sleeping. The whole protest was against the fact that Pence was going to approve the results of the election. I understand the point of this thread that he personally does not vote, he is only the spokes person to inform people what the vote was. Still he could have taken a stand and refused to do that. I think the majority leader would then be appointed as speaker.

He had already quit his job as vice president because Trump told him not to do what he did. He destroyed his political career. His approval rating is just about zero. He is a real bottom dweller. When he quit his job as vice president that destroyed his chance of every becoming president.
 
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Diamond72

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To punish for the crimes of ones parents would be monsterous and immoral.
The atheists accuse God. That is why I prayed and He told me that 100% He is a God of absolute and precise Justice. You are quick to accuse in light of the whole nature vs nurture argument that has been going on for a very long time.

The "nature vs. nurture" debate is a long-standing and complex issue in the fields of psychology, biology, and genetics. It centers around the relative importance of genetic factors (nature) and environmental factors (nurture) in shaping human behavior, traits, and development. It's important to understand that this debate is not one that can be "won" definitively because both nature and nurture play significant roles in human development, and they often interact in intricate ways.
 
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SimplyMe

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Yes and no. We are required to follow the righteous requirements of the law. If we want to be right with God. The idea that we somehow are forgiven no matter what we do, is just not true. Clearly we reap what we sow. The Grace of God and the Blood of Jesus can cleanse us from our transgression.

They should have adjourned as soon as they found out that there was going to be a protest. Of course they know now the whole thing should have been handled different from the way it was handled.

Why should they have adjourned when they found out there was going to be a protest? Of all the protests that had been held in Washington, DC, how many breached the Capitol in your lifetime, or even your father's lifetime? So why would they have any idea they needed to worry about protesters trying to break into the Capitol -- particularly since Trump's administration never forwarded the intelligence they had that people were planning to break into the Capitol building?

Did you not drink your coffee today. Are you still sleeping. The whole protest was against the fact that Pence was going to approve the results of the election.

No, the protest was because the American People voted for Biden, and the Electoral College had voted to confirm that result. They didn't actually know if Pence was going to do what Trump wanted, at least when the "protest" started.

I understand the point of this thread that he personally does not vote, he is only the spokes person to inform people what the vote was. Still he could have taken a stand and refused to do that. I think the majority leader would then be appointed as speaker.

No, the Constitution specifically requires the Vice President. Pence was following the Constitution. Nowhere does it say the VP can refuse to open the votes or pass it off to a member of Congress.

He had already quit his job as vice president because Trump told him not to do what he did.

As has been pointed out to you, multiple times, the oath of the Vice President is to the Constitution, not to the President. In fact, when the framers wrote the Constitution, the loser of the Presidential Election became Vice President -- leading to the Vice President basically never "obeying" the President and working against the President's agenda.

Pence did not quit, he was doing his job according to the Constitution.

He destroyed his political career. His approval rating is just about zero. He is a real bottom dweller. When he quit his job as vice president that destroyed his chance of every becoming president.

That sounds like more of an indictment against the Republican Party than of VP Pence.
 
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Hans Blaster

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They should have adjourned as soon as they found out that there was going to be a protest. Of course they know now the whole thing should have been handled different from the way it was handled.
Why? There are protests in DC all of the time. There were even small permitted events near the Capitol related to the whole "Stop the Steal" thing that very afternoon. (ie, challenging the EV count). There was no threat with a large crowd outside the Capitol grounds. No mortal danger even when they were on the Capitol lawn. It was only when they breached the Capitol steps and then broke open windows and doors that such threats existed and that is when proceedings were halted. I admire Pence and the Congressional leadership for moving forward to do their Constitutional duty even though there was a large crowd forming outside the building.
The whole protest was against the fact that Pence was going to approve the results of the election.
His role was to count, not to decide. He made that clear in a statement before and legal experts have verified this to be the correct position.
I understand the point of this thread that he personally does not vote,
Actually, the thread is about the Proud Boys who were part of every level of the breach into the grounds, the stairs, and finally the building itself.
he is only the spokes person to inform people what the vote was. Still he could have taken a stand and refused to do that.
No he couldn't.
I think the majority leader would then be appointed as speaker.
If the President of the Senate (VPOTUS Pence) was unavailable to perform that duty it would fall to the President pro temp of the Senate, who was at the time Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa.
He had already quit his job as vice president because Trump told him not to do what he did.
No he didn't "quit his job" he was still VP until Noon on Jan 20th. This also makes the misconception that the VP works for the President. They do not.
He destroyed his political career.
Probably, but he didn't really have much of a career left anyway.
His approval rating is just about zero. He is a real bottom dweller.
I don't like his politics either, but ...
When he quit his job as vice president that destroyed his chance of every becoming president.
(Again, he did not quit). His only chance at becoming president ever was the opportunity Paul Manfort gave him in the Summer of 2016 to be the GOP VP candidate, hope the then floundering campaign revived (it did) and take over as POTUS when Trump couldn't complete his term (oh, well, he did complete it). His last real chances to be President were the Senate vote on conviction in Jan 2020 and that time in Oct 2020 when Trump got COVID.


Pence has minimal charisma and was very unlikely to win the GOP presidential nomination (and perhaps even less chance now that the MAGAs don't like him anymore) and he only really appealed to conservative evangelicals. His reelection campaign for governor was flagging in 2016 so he took a flyer on the VP nomination and it worked (almost, he got to be VP, but will never be president).
 
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Hans Blaster

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The atheists accuse God. That is why I prayed and He told me that 100% He is a God of absolute and precise Justice. You are quick to accuse in light of the whole nature vs nurture argument that has been going on for a very long time.
Atheists don't accuse "God", we don't think it exists.
The "nature vs. nurture" debate is a long-standing and complex issue in the fields of psychology, biology, and genetics. It centers around the relative importance of genetic factors (nature) and environmental factors (nurture) in shaping human behavior, traits, and development. It's important to understand that this debate is not one that can be "won" definitively because both nature and nurture play significant roles in human development, and they often interact in intricate ways.
This isn't about nurture verses nature, this is about inherited guilt. What are we Klingons?
 
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Pommer

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Obiden was grateful with the Bush administration for the peaceful transfer of power. He wanted to maintain that tradition with a peaceful transfer of power to Trump. It would seem Trump did not want to maintain that tradition.
Tradition bound by law.
It doesn’t “just happen”, people have to go out of their way to transfer the power of the State to an incoming Administration.
Part of what I liked about the Trump/Biden transfer was how on top the incoming Biden Administration was despite not receiving the customary transfer courtesies from the outgoing administration. Every roadblock that Trump et. al. could have thrown in the way, was!

As for harping on the “war criminal”…he was a soldier, doing his duty as he saw fit.
You’re free to denigrate his service, though, that’s your right, just don’t be surprised if there’s some pushback against such a view.
 
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Pommer

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The atheists accuse God. That is why I prayed and He told me that 100% He is a God of absolute and precise Justice.
Isn’t it a core tenet of Christianity that the “saved” are friends with the Judge’s Son?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Stop acting like thousands of Democrats were murdered that day.
'Stop beating your wife.' Honestly, the tissue-thin rhetoric in this thread, from what I can only describe as the pro-insurrection side, is weak sauce.
 
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Hans Blaster

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All they did was protest a rigged election.
The swarmed about a "stolen election", but even by the evidence clearly available on that date it wasn't stolen or rigged. (Some of the chief propagators of that lie about a stolen election drew the crowd to DC and cranked up the crowd in that delusion. )
It was a true mostly peaceful protest.
What occured AT the Capitol was neither a protest, nor peaceful.
Why isn't Ray Epps in prison ?
Because he hasn't been charged? (In the US we prefer to charge people, at minimum, before jailing them, and convict them at trial before prison. It's just the fair thing to do.) The activities of Mr. Epps that day are well documented and the only crimes he can be seen committing are trespass on restricted grounds (and the DOJ has charged virtually no one who only trespassed on the grounds and didn't enter the building, so this isn't going to cut it) and briefly joining a crowd that was using a large rolling "Trump" sign (6x8 feet or so) horizontally as a low speed battering ram to push cops off their defense line before the building was breached. A couple people have been charged with 18 USC 111 (assaulting or interfering with officers) and others with 18 USC 231 (interfering with officers in a civil disorder). Earlier this week two defendants had their "111" charges for the sign dismissed by the judge (and I think that was all who had been so charged), so the most Mr. Epps would likely face is the "231" charge (max 5 years) and they'll charge him when the feel like it. (They continue to arrest serious assault cases with 20 year maxes, including one guy last week who was holding a cop just before the cop got tasered.)

Most likely, elderly hothead Ray Epps will never be charged. (There are only 27 more months to do it and about 300 outstanding, uncharged violence suspects.)
Video shows Rosanne Boyland getting severely beaten by cops.
She was not. There is no evidence any cops ever touched her and the only persons doing violence to her were other rioters that fell on her and stepped through her to make their attack on cops.
Video shows Sicknick all fine and dandy after he was allegedly beaten with a fire extinguisher.
It does not, since he was never hit by an extinguisher and the footage also clearly shows his severe reaction to being sprayed. A reaction that kept him out of the melee for some time.
Do you still believe masks and clot shots prevent infection and transmission also ???
Not relevant.
Hopefully for your sake MSM doesn't recommend I s sheep to jump off a cliff.
Not coherent.
Only 2 people were killed that day. 2 unarmed Republican women. Stop acting like thousands of Democrats were murdered that day.

Insurrection with only 1 shot fired , that killed a small unarmed woman .
I addressed this in my last reply to you. I suggest you read that post and if you wish to challenge the details you do that rather than hurling more simplistic claims.
The hypocrisy from the Left is unfathomable. After thing your guilty of you accuse the Right off .
This is a rather broad accusation and to top it, you have assumed without evidence that I am part of "the Left". Quit lumping people in groups just to attack their integrity. (Speaking of which...)
Rigging elections, stealing , cheating elections is overthrowing democracy. You can't fool God.

I would encourage you to repent before it's too late.
I have nothing to repent for and certainly not these broad, false accusations.
 
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Bottom line is it's a total double standard. Democrats can Burn, Loot and Murder and it's called a mostly peaceful protest.

The ONLY people killed on Jan 6th were 2 UNARMED WOMEN , who were protesting a rigged election. Yet the Left likes to pretend thousands of Democrats were murdered on that day.
Those who 'burned, looted, or murdered' were convicted for their crimes (if they were found), just like the violent people on Jan 6th. No double standard at all.

trump and his republicans had over 60 court cases to prove the election was rigged, but each case was dismissed due to no evidence.

Do you have the evidence needed to prove the election was rigged? We will be waiting for your evidence.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Show me video evidence of Trumpers carrying guns on Jan 6th. How many people did they shoot ? Zero

I just googlized "guns at capitol on jan 6" and it found dozens of articles about individual cases and summaries.

Christopher Alberts:

Gun-toting Jan. 6 defendant says 'instinct took over' when he charged police line with wooden pallet

Mark Mazza:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/21/politics/january-6-capitol-rioter-guns-sentenced/index.html

Lonnie Coffman:

Most heavily armed Trump supporter at Capitol riot admits bringing Molotov cocktails

Guy Reffitt

Prosecutors have charged a fourth Capitol riot defendant with a firearms violation

A variety of related gun charges (near or at the Capitol)

A Running List of Gun Arrests Tied to the U.S. Capitol Attack

And there are others, including those who have been identified as carrying and not arrested yet.

People say there is no evidence God exists. That's very ignorant. The evidence is overwhelming. It's a similar situation with the Election. Biden sure gets booed alot for a guy who allegedly got 15 million more votes than Obama. Just make up the excuses right now why he won't be able to campaign much in 2024. Let me guess, you think nothing abnormal nothing suspicious happened on election day ??? Lol . Counties voting all red for every other race but not president. Extremely odd. More votes than citizens. Trump leading heavily that night before the evil Dens shut it down. Than a near mathematical impossibly happened? Get real.
None of this is relevant to the topic of the thread or my post.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I asked for VIDEO evidence. And how many people did those evil Trumpers shoot on Jan 6th ????

I didn't realize VIDEO was the only valid form. (I did realize that that's what you insisted on, but frankly, your insistence just seems like an excuse to shoo away the evidence.)

There is no video of rioters *brandishing* guns (well, fire arms, we have plenty of them with stun guns of various kinds), but there are many still photographs and video frames that show firearms (all pistols) in holsters and tucked in waistbands.

No one, and I mean no one, is claiming that Trump's rioters were shooting people on Jan 6th.
 
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SimplyMe

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Show me video evidence of Trumpers carrying guns on Jan 6th. How many people did they shoot ? Zero

I'd love to. However, most of that video is contained in the unreleased footage that was given to Tucker Carlson -- with promises it would be made public shortly after. Of course, it still isn't public so you are asking for something that Republicans aren't allowing you to see.

People say there is no evidence God exists. That's very ignorant. The evidence is overwhelming.

Off topic for this thread.

It's a similar situation with the Election.

No, it isn't. There is still zero evidence of any major fraud in the election, despite what Trump and others keep claiming.

Biden sure gets booed alot for a guy who allegedly got 15 million more votes than Obama.

Yes, the country is very divided politically, so it is no surprise that the millions of Trump voters would want to "boo" Biden, just as the millions of Biden voters would "boo" Trump. This is only evidence that the country is polarized.

Just make up the excuses right now why he won't be able to campaign much in 2024.

I have no interest in that, while I may end up voting for Biden it will only be because I find there are zero good choices on the ballot. I still have the wish (I'd like to say hope but don't believe it will happen) that one of the parties will actually nominate someone worthy of my vote.

Let me guess, you think nothing abnormal nothing suspicious happened on election day ???

Not nearly as much as some like to pretend happened. As an example, I made a post about "irregularities" in the Detroit area that were taken to court by the Trump campaign, and the judge actually showed how all those "irregularities" were actually people who didn't understand the process -- most of the "irregularities" was actually voting occurring as it was supposed to. The ones that weren't were people just misunderstanding what they were seeing

As one example, there was a complaint about the ballots being brought in through a "back door," when that "back door" was the arenas loading dock, where votes were being counted, and it was the designated secure entrance that all ballot boxes were required to come into the arena. Another example was a man loading boxes out of a van and taking them into the arena where it was claimed he was taking illegal ballots in; the fact is actually that he worked for a local TV station as a camera man and the boxes were the TV cameras he was using for the segment on the news about the vote count.

We saw this a lot. In a case in Arizona you had a judge asking Trump lawyers about the affidavits they received and how many of the affidavits Trump's lawyers had to "throw out" because they were so easily identifiable as fake because of how they were trying to get people to submit reports of "anomalies":


Lol . Counties voting all red for every other race but not president.

Not really that strange -- the American public is well known for wanting a "deadlocked" government; with a President of one party and a Congress of the other party to keep checks on the President.

At the same time, the exit polling supported what happened in the election. In large part it was suburban white women that made the difference in the election, women that voted for Trump in 2016 but changed to Biden in 2020. These were still Republicans, but Trumps apparently lost their vote in the intervening years (you can look at the exit polls from 2020 to find some of the reasons).

Extremely odd. More votes than citizens.

I'm not aware of this actually happening. What I did hear of is the claim in Michigan where there were more votes than voters but, when the claim was examined, they had accidentally looked at the population/voting rolls of a county of the same name in Minnesota. The Michigan County there were more voters than votes counted.
Trump leading heavily that night before the evil Dems shut it down. Then a near mathematical impossibly happened? Vote dumps that go 99.9% all Biden.

Give me a break.
The Dems never "shut it down." I sat up all night and watched the votes keep coming in. And, yes, it was exactly what it was stated would happen before the election; smaller locations (which tend to be heavily Republican) got their votes counted quickly (few votes to count) and then overnight, as urban precincts started to be reported, they went heavily Biden (as was expected). And I can't recall any precincts that went 99.9% Biden -- that was one of the false claims made by Republicans that didn't hold up to the actual vote counts. Yes, there were some Urban counties that went maybe 90% for Biden -- but those are precincts that traditionally vote 90+% Democrat and Trump actually did better in most of those urban precincts in 2020 than he did in 2016 (by both number of votes and percent of votes for Trump).

The fact is, all the states that were contested did recounts. Both Georgia and Arizona did audits -- with the Arizona audit being done by a Trump supporter that actually ended up finding Biden won by a larger margin that the official results showed. There were 60 court cases by Trump lawyers who, despite in press conferences talking about "fraud," went out of their way to state they weren't claiming fraud when in court where they could be penalized for making false claims. AG Barr ran his own investigation into election issues and found nothing that would have had any real effect on election results. There is just no actual evidence of any issues or problems that would have changed the results of the election (though there were the common minor issues that pop up most every election).
 
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Hans Blaster

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He said he got 22 years because he refused to slander Trump. They offered him a sweetheart deal if he would slander Trump , he bravely and courageously declined . A true Patriot. God bless him.

You really are stubbornly refusing to comprehend what Tarrio was actually charged with.

What straight reporting have you read about that trial? the indictment? the sentencing?

Or is everything you've read run through a partisan filter of commentary?
 
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