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soul = spirit?
- Thread starter tonychanyt
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This is the 3rd time I am asking:: so you say things but you won't put money where your mouth is?
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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In the scriptures both human beings and animals are living souls, (Genesis 2:7)
and the scriptures also teach that the spirit that's in human beings is also in animals (Genesis 7:22; Ecclesiastes 3:19-22). So I don't believe that because animals have the same spirit that's in human beings I don't believe animals have consciousness like human beings.The scriptures teach that when it comes to the topic of death human beings are not superior to animals. So just as animals cease to be living animals or living souls when they die, human beings cease to be living souls or living persons when they die. Human beings are superior to the beasts only in one way and that's because God created the human being in God's image, meaning human beings can reflect God's moral qualities(love, justice, mercy, compassion etc) Yet human beings who are living souls or living persons cease to be living souls or living persons when they die, just like animals stop being living souls or living animals when they die.
So when a human being dies he/she no longer is a living person who can recall memories he/she can't remember them, or reflect on them, he/she no longer has any curiosity, or reasoning, or imagination, or .emotions. When a human being dies he/she has no consciousness. That human being that once was a living soul or living person when he/she dies is no longer a living soul or living person.
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Human beings are superior to animals in only one way and that's that we are made in God's image? Well, that's a pretty significant difference! I think it says a lot. You don't think we will be able to reason and think when we die? Do you say this because you hold to seventh day adventist-- soul sleep?
@tonychanyt
I’m not a scientist, but I don’t think the marrow within the bones directs the joints. The bone marrow is as much a part of the bones as the outside is. That’s why it makes sense to read “soul and spirit” as an expression of fullness. But it is interesting to note that the blood is the life of the body.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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I've told you that when I read Genesis 2:7 it teaches me that human beings are living souls or living persons. Genesis 2:7 doesn't teach me that human beings were given living souls or living persons. You haven't shown me that what I'm saying about Genesis 2:7 isn't true.
If you don't want to believe that Genesis 2:7 teaches that the flesh and blood human body doesn't have a living soul or living person in the flesh and blood human body that God formed from the dust of the ground, so be it. But that is what Genesis 2:7 teaches whether a person believes that or not.
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If I make a claim, I am willing to put money where my mouth is. Otherwise, I would not make that claim. Do you practice this?
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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What I'm not going to do is disagree with Genesis 2:7 and what it teaches which is, that after God formed the flesh and blood human body from the dust of the ground and then God blew the breath(spirit) of life into that flesh and blood human body he had formed from the dust of the ground that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. People want me to deny Genesis 2:7 but I'm not going to do that.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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Here at 1 Thessalonians 5:23 God inspired Paul to write to the Thessalonians congregation. Paul wasn't inspired to write to just one individual. So when
Paul was referring to the spirit, soul, and body he was speaking to the composite Christian congregation, which included spirit-anointed Christians in Thessalonica. Instead of simply praying that the congregation be preserved, he prayed for the preservation of its “spirit,” or mental disposition. He also prayed for its “soul,” its life, or existence, and for its “body”—the composite body of anointed Christians. (1 Cor. 12:12, 13)
Lessons for Us:
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lanceleo
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Genesis 2:7 was referring to man not animal. When God breathed into the nostrils of man the breath of life he became a living soul. Animal however does have spirit (Ecclesiastes 3:21). Yes men are not superior to animals as both depend on air to survive. Men have an advantage over animals because they have a tongue and with it they can praise and glorify God.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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It is true that the account says that "God proceeded to blow into the man’s nostrils the breath [form of neshamah] of life," whereas this is not stated in the account of the animal creation. Clearly, however, the account of the creation of man is much more detailed than that of the creation of animals, but that doesn't mean that when it comes to the animal creation God didn't form their flesh and blood animal bodies from the dust of the ground, it doesn't mean that God didn't blow the same breath of life into the flesh and blood animal body that he blew into the flesh and blood human body that God had formed from the dust of the ground. At Genesis 7:21-23, in describing the Flood’s destruction of “all flesh” outside the ark, it lists the animal creatures along with mankind saying: “Everything in which the breath [form of neshamah] of the force of life that was active in its nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died.” The expression “breath of life [literally, breath of the spirit (ruach), of life]." So the Hebrew word neshamah(breath) is directly associated or linked with ruach, which here describes the spirit that is in all living creatures, both human and animals. (Genesis 7:22) Obviously, the breath of life of the animal creatures also originally came from the Creator, YHWH God. So precisely the same Hebrew phrase used of the animal creation, namely, nephesh chaiyah (living soul), is applied to Adam, when, after God formed man out of the dust of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, "the man came to be a living soul."(Genesis 2:7) Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 7:22 confirm what Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 says, that when it comes to death man has no superiority over animals just as when a animal dies it stops being a living soul or living animal so also when a human being dies that human being stops being a living soul or living person.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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A human being is a living soul or living person, the first human being God formed from the dust wasn't given a living soul or living person. When a human being stops being a living soul or living person at death and someone tells me that something of a human being continues after death such as his/her consciousness, or that human being that has died has awareness and can think after death is clearly wanting me to deny Genesis 2:7. Genesis is clear proof that when a human being no longer has the breath (spirit) of life in the human body that human being is no longer a living soul or living person. To have consciousness or be able to think you have to be a living person.
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To me, these are all matters of definition depending on the contexts of argumentation. Apparently, you can't seem to accept any definition except your own.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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I understand we all choose to believe what we choose to believe, that's everyone's right. So I understand that you choose to believe that, "these are all matters of definition depending on the contexts of argumentation." Here's a problem I have though, when you said, I can't accept any definition concerning Genesis 2:7 except my own, it seems to me you're implying that I'm not going by what is written down in Genesis 2:7. But I can read the English language as good as anyone else, and I'm not going by a definition of Genesis 2:7, I'm going by what is written down. And nowhere in Genesis 2:7 is it written down that the first human being God created was GIVEN a living soul or living person. Genesis 2:7 says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Nowhere in this English Bible which is the king James Bible does it say God GAVE man a living soul. Genesis 2:7 doesn't use the word GAVE after God blew the breath of life in man it uses the word BECAME. I'm not going by a definition I'm going by what's written at Genesis 2:7. I can read the English language no matter if anyone or everyone believes I can't.
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You misunderstood. You don't have to believe in a definition. It is something that I assumed. I can assume one definition of soul in one argumentation and another definition for a different argumentation. It is something that I choose to assume to ensure precision and clarity to avoid misunderstandings. An argument cannot be productive unless the debaters agree on the definitions.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
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I don't agree that soul=spirit. From what I read from the scriptures, soul and spirit are not the same. So soul doesn't=spirit according to the scriptures. Anyone telling me that the spirit in man is a living soul or living person is disagreeing with Genesis 2:7. I'm not going to disagree with what is written down at Genesis 2:7, no matter what anyone thinks of me.
I can see for myself that before God blew the breath(spirit) of life into that flesh and blood human body which God had formed from the dust of the ground there was no living soul or living person yet. This means the breath(spirit) of life not being in the flesh and blood human body yet, a living soul or living person didn't exist yet. It was after God blew the breath of life into the flesh and blood human body that the scripture Genesis 2:7 says the flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.
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