FLAT or ROUND Earth?

[pgp_protector]

A sphere, when looked at from straight on is showing as a circle! A pyramid, when looked at from one side is showing as a triangle. A box when looked at from one side is showing as a square!!

Besides, you are totally wrong. The earth is not flat. Nowhere in the Bible does it say it is flat! It is only your bad interpretation that makes you think it is flat!

Well that & Denying reality.

 

[Divide]

There is a way to let common sense validate the debate one way or the other. It's very simple.

The earth is a sphere whch is round ball which can look like a circle in the distance. However, if the earth was really flat, it would be kind of a big thing, don't you think? Worthy of mention?!

Well, I've heard a lot of Christian Testimonies in my time, a lot. And many of them were people taken up in spirit or whatever and were above the earth with the Lord. And they tell beautiful testimonies. One guy describes being above the eart (ike in orbit?) and there were a whole lot of doors lined up. He got to go into a few doors and saw miraculous things. But as they tell their testimonies, none of them mention, oh yes, and I seen that the earth is flat!! They would say so because that would be a big thing!

So the earth is not flat. In y mind this is good conclusion. People talk. Kind of a big thing if we could find out earth is flat after believing for so long that it was round.

So the new flat earth movement is a rabbit trail. It was circulated to be a distraction and get people thinking and wasting time on trivial wrongs when there are bigger fish to fry.

See? Common Sense.

 

[Divide]

I guess many of the people who believe a flat earth are christians. SO has not one flat earth christian been taken up and seen for themsef?

But that is not the evidence they offer for a flat earth. They offer (cia?) science and do a fair job of making it sound plausible. I especially like that one about line of sight and curvature of the earth, how earth drops 8 inches per mile (I think was the number) so what you see would be out of sight but it's not. Now I never actually tested that because I have better things to do lol. But it sounds plausible, ol Jim-Bob and his drinkin buddy didn't think that up. Flat earth smells of Government disinformation. It does sound like something they would put out. Unofficially you understand, lol!

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

A sphere, when looked at from straight on is showing as a circle! A pyramid, when looked at from one side is showing as a triangle. A box when looked at from one side is showing as a square!!

Besides, you are totally wrong. The earth is not flat. Nowhere in the Bible does it say it is flat! It is only your bad interpretation that makes you think it is flat!

A sphere is NOT a circle even when you hold it a certain way it is still a sphere I played basketball many years ago and as I watched players dribble the ball on the other side of the basket the ball still looked like a sphere. Now, you can take a picture of a basketball and look at it from several feet away and it MIGHT look like a circle but just because it MIGHT look like a circle doesn't make it a circle. It is still a sphere. The earth is called a circle in Isaiah 40:22 and that is the verse flat earthers used as a proof text when debating with those who believed in a sphere in medieval times. That is their proof text. They use the imagery of the skies being spread over the circle of the earth as a tent. That would mean they imagined a dome shaped sky turned over the earth and the flat earthers would look horizon to horizon and see how the dome shaped sky met the earth at the horizon.

And yes, you are correct that the earth is not flat. The Bible does say it is a circle though and that is the same as calling it flat because a circle is a flat plane figure, not a sphere. In the KVJ, the Hebrew had a word for sphere and in Isaiah 22:18 translates it as ball. And remember heaven where God lives is called a circle in Job 22:14 (translated as circuit in the KJV). The Hebrew word translated as circuit in Job 22 is the same Hebrew word translated as circle in Isaiah 40:22. Is heaven a sphere? The ancients believed God abode in heaven above the sky and he would walk around the circle of heaven, This makes perfect sense for an ancient as God could look down from heaven, a circle above the circle of the earth.

 

[Lost4words]

A sphere is NOT a circle even when you hold it a certain way it is still a sphere I played basketball many years ago and as I watched players dribble the ball on the other side of the basket the ball still looked like a sphere. Now, you can take a picture of a basketball and look at it from several feet away and it MIGHT look like a circle but just because it MIGHT look like a circle doesn't make it a circle. It is still a sphere. The earth is called a circle in Isaiah 40:22 and that is the verse flat earthers used as a proof text when debating with those who believed in a sphere in medieval times. That is their proof text. They use the imagery of the skies being spread over the circle of the earth as a tent. That would mean they imagined a dome shaped sky turned over the earth and the flat earthers would look horizon to horizon and see how the dome shaped sky met the earth at the horizon.

And yes, you are correct that the earth is not flat. The Bible does say it is a circle though and that is the same as calling it flat because a circle is a flat plane figure, not a sphere. In the KVJ, the Hebrew had a word for sphere and in Isaiah 22:18 translates it as ball. And remember heaven where God lives is called a circle in Job 22:14 (translated as circuit in the KJV). The Hebrew word translated as circuit in Job 22 is the same Hebrew word translated as circle in Isaiah 40:22. Is heaven a sphere? The ancients believed God abode in heaven above the sky and he would walk around the circle of heaven, This makes perfect sense for an ancient as God could look down from heaven, a circle above the circle of the earth.

I not calling it a circle. No....

I stating that it looks like a circle when viewed head on!

The average person would say that a ball looks like a circle...

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

I not calling it a circle. No....

I stating that it looks like a circle when viewed head on!

The average person would say that a ball looks like a circle...

I am not sure what the average person would say all I know is I wouldn't call it a circle. If someone palms a basketball and holds it straight at me so it is at eye level I can still see the curvature of the ball. With a good pair of binoculars or a good telescope you can even see the curvature of the moon, even when it is half full or full. To the unaided human eye, some may see it as a circle but in reality the moon is a sphere, just like earth is a sphere.

In medieval times the highest educated knew the earth was a sphere because in the third and fourth centuries BCE the Greeks and the Babyloniana believed the earth was a sphere. They were so astronomically competent they could even predict eclipses and such. The majority of the people that lived in the medieval times didn't know this. They actually believed the earth was flat and the reason they believed that is because the Bible told them so. The educated ones opposed this because they knew the earth was a sphere but the flat earthers denied this. They clung tenaciously to their belief in the flat earth. When explorers circumnavigated the earth and proved the earth was a sphere, many flat earthers rejected their former beliefs and embraced the fact that the earth was a sphere. In fact, it wasn't until after the earth became widely accepted as a sphere did the definition of sphere first began to be used in Bible commentaries, sermons, and stuff like that. And Bible dictionaries and lexicons continue to use sphere as a definition for circle in Isaiah 40:22. Not the most ethical thing to do but stuff like this happens.

 

[BeyondET]

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​

Look you can try to explain it away all you want, but a fact is a circle is not a sphere.

Like @Lost4words said, you are interpreting scripture wrong.

A circle of people isn't a flat disc or a sphere.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

BeyondET wrote:
Heaven is a circle of spirituality, doesn't mean the spirits are in a literal circle or heaven is a flat disc or sphere.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Where do you get the idea that heaven is a circle of spirituality? I believe there is spirituality in heaven but where do you get the idea it is a CIRCLE of spirituality? Isaiah plainly referred to the "circle of the earth" and you are claiming it doesn't mean it is a literal circle or a flat disc. Where do you get this idea from?

BEYONDET
The word has multiple meanings.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Which meaning do you accept and why?

BEYONDET
Picking one that means a 2D flat circle isn't what the 3D earth is.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The very definition of circle is that it is a plane figure. In other words, flat. If you have another meaning you prefer then let's see your evidence.

BEYONDET
The verse is saying just that, all that is on earth. Physically you are apart of the circle of earth.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The earth is not a circle. It is a sphere. The ignorant in medieval times believed the earth was a circle. Today we know better.

BEYONDET
There was no artificial light obscuring the view of the pillars like today. You have to get far away from city lights etc. To get a good view.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I've been far away from city lights before. When I was in my 20s I traveled on freight trains sometimes and in 1986 I caught a freight from San Antonio to El Paso and overnight we were way out in the middle of the desert. I could see the beauty of the stars (you don't see as many in the city). There was such beauty I never forgot it. But nothing I saw disproved the earth was sphere. The earth is a sphere and Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a circle. It is not a circle. But the ancients believed it was.

 

[Lost4words]

I am not sure what the average person would say all I know is I wouldn't call it a circle. If someone palms a basketball and holds it straight at me so it is at eye level I can still see the curvature of the ball. With a good pair of binoculars or a good telescope you can even see the curvature of the moon, even when it is half full or full. To the unaided human eye, some may see it as a circle but in reality the moon is a sphere, just like earth is a sphere.

In medieval times the highest educated knew the earth was a sphere because in the third and fourth centuries BCE the Greeks and the Babyloniana believed the earth was a sphere. They were so astronomically competent they could even predict eclipses and such. The majority of the people that lived in the medieval times didn't know this. They actually believed the earth was flat and the reason they believed that is because the Bible told them so. The educated ones opposed this because they knew the earth was a sphere but the flat earthers denied this. They clung tenaciously to their belief in the flat earth. When explorers circumnavigated the earth and proved the earth was a sphere, many flat earthers rejected their former beliefs and embraced the fact that the earth was a sphere. In fact, it wasn't until after the earth became widely accepted as a sphere did the definition of sphere first began to be used in Bible commentaries, sermons, and stuff like that. And Bible dictionaries and lexicons continue to use sphere as a definition for circle in Isaiah 40:22. Not the most ethical thing to do but stuff like this happens.

I agree. Just saying what others have said. Some people would describe these things as round, or circle shaped.

Anyway, its not flat! Lol

 

[BeyondET]

BeyondET wrote:
Heaven is a circle of spirituality, doesn't mean the spirits are in a literal circle or heaven is a flat disc or sphere.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Where do you get the idea that heaven is a circle of spirituality? I believe there is spirituality in heaven but where do you get the idea it is a CIRCLE of spirituality? Isaiah plainly referred to the "circle of the earth" and you are claiming it doesn't mean it is a literal circle or a flat disc. Where do you get this idea from?

BEYONDET
The word has multiple meanings.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Which meaning do you accept and why?

BEYONDET
Picking one that means a 2D flat circle isn't what the 3D earth is.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The very definition of circle is that it is a plane figure. In other words, flat. If you have another meaning you prefer then let's see your evidence.

BEYONDET
The verse is saying just that, all that is on earth. Physically you are apart of the circle of earth.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The earth is not a circle. It is a sphere. The ignorant in medieval times believed the earth was a circle. Today we know better.

BEYONDET
There was no artificial light obscuring the view of the pillars like today. You have to get far away from city lights etc. To get a good view.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I've been far away from city lights before. When I was in my 20s I traveled on freight trains sometimes and in 1986 I caught a freight from San Antonio to El Paso and overnight we were way out in the middle of the desert. I could see the beauty of the stars (you don't see as many in the city). There was such beauty I never forgot it. But nothing I saw disproved the earth was sphere. The earth is a sphere and Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a circle. It is not a circle. But the ancients believed it was.

You posted job and the verse isn't explaining the shape of heaven as in a flat circle.

job 22:14 Thick clouds cover Him, so that He cannot see, And He walks above the circle of heaven.’

In Isiah circle is being used in the same way as the circle of heaven. Encompasses all of it and God is above it all.

Top two circle definition can mean a round plane or a group, like everything on earth is part of a circle.

1.
a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the center).
"draw a circle with a compass"
2.
a group of people with shared professions, interests, or acquaintances.
"she did not normally move in such exalted circles"

The inspired word isn't going to use a word that isn't true just because the ancients assumed earth was flat. The word circle is a reference to something else not a flat plane.

 

[d taylor]

Like @Lost4words said, you are interpreting scripture wrong.

A circle of people isn't a flat disc or a sphere.

The Bible is not talking about people it is addressing earth in other words ground/land.

The verse It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, could be read It is He who sits above the circle of the ground/land,

God's original creation was a circular one piece of land and not divided up as seen today. And more than likely after satan is locked away. For the 1000 year millennium, the earth will be restored back to one piece of circular land. For Christ to rule His kingdom, unlike satan's, Jesus will rule over a single piece of land and not a divided one like satan.

 

[BeyondET]

The Bible is not talking about people it is addressing earth in other words ground/land.

The verse It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, could be read It is He who sits above the circle of the ground/land,

God's original creation was a circular one piece of land and not divided up as seen today. And more than likely after satan is locked away. For the 1000 year millennium, the earth will be restored back to one piece of circular land. For Christ to rule His kingdom, unlike satan's, Jesus will rule over a single piece of land and not a divided one like satan.

As I mentioned before psalm 136:6 happened during creation it is right there in the context of the chapter. Earth has had a couple of supercontinents its part of the cycle of earth, indeed earth will go through another supercontinent event.

Heaven isn't a flat circle that God walks above either.

Job 22:14
Thick clouds cover Him, so that He cannot see, And He walks above the circle of heaven.’

 

[pgp_protector]

Besides the earth can't be a circle, circles don't have corners so it must be a rectangle.

Rev.7​

[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

 

[BeyondET]

Besides the earth can't be a circle, circles don't have corners so it must be a rectangle.

Rev.7​

[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Nay that's metaphorical, like the four winds of heaven.

On earth its a reference of the four cardinal directions.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

You posted job and the verse isn't explaining the shape of heaven as in a flat circle.

job 22:14 Thick clouds cover Him, so that He cannot see, And He walks above the circle of heaven.’

You claim the verse isn't explaining the shape of heaven. Yet, that is what it does. He walks above the circle of heaven. This makes sense in the ancient world because most of the ancients believed the earth was a circle and God's abode was in heaven, directly above the circular earth. So when God walked above the circle of heaven he could look down to the circle of the earth and see the activities of mankind. It is important to know however the Hebrew word for circle in Isaiah 40:22 can also be translated as "vault". With the dome shaped canopy over the earth it was as if earth was in a vault. So, circle of the earth could be translated as "vault of the earth" although I don't know Hebrew so I can't say this for sure.

In Isiah circle is being used in the same way as the circle of heaven. Encompasses all of it and God is above it all.

In Isaiah 40:22 the scripture says:
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

God is said to be sitting upon the circle of the earth. Nowhere does this say that the circle of the earth in this verse is being used to refer to encompassing everything, it simply says "circle of the earth" no more or no less.

Top two circle definition can mean a round plane or a group, like everything on earth is part of a circle.

The top two definitions can mean a plane figure or a group of people. Which does it mean In Isaiah 40:22?

1.
a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed point (the center).
"draw a circle with a compass"

This is the most likely definition of circle in Isaiah 40:22.

2.
a group of people with shared professions, interests, or acquaintances.
"she did not normally move in such exalted circles"

This does not translate well with Isaiah 40:22 or Job 22:14. So, what definition for circle in Isaiah 40:22 do you choose and why?

The inspired word isn't going to use a word that isn't true just because the ancients assumed earth was flat. The word circle is a reference to something else not a flat plane.

Some of the ancients believed the earth had corners, implying a square. These were few and far between. The majority of the ancients believed the earth was a circle. Some others referred to the "four winds" which was probably a metaphor for the four directions, north, south, east and west. Some others referred to the four "ends of the earth" which would not be compatible with a sphere but would fit with the flat earth cosmology.

I take the word for what it says. You don't accept the literal meaning of circle in this verse so you just make up a meaning that makes the problem disappear. I will stick by what the word says. If God is displeased then I will be held accountable on judgement day. You believe what you want to believe. I studied interpreting ancient literature over 40 years ago and one of the things we were taught is not to judge ancient literature by our modern standards, but to judge them by what was known at the time the literature was written. We don't ASSUME the writers knew the earth circled the sun like we know it today but we interpret it according to the way they believed at the time the document was written.

 

[Divide]

You claim the verse isn't explaining the shape of heaven. Yet, that is what it does. He walks above the circle of heaven. This makes sense in the ancient world because most of the ancients believed the earth was a circle and God's abode was in heaven, directly above the circular earth. So when God walked above the circle of heaven he could look down to the circle of the earth and see the activities of mankind. It is important to know however the Hebrew word for circle in Isaiah 40:22 can also be translated as "vault". With the dome shaped canopy over the earth it was as if earth was in a vault. So, circle of the earth could be translated as "vault of the earth" although I don't know Hebrew so I can't say this for sure.

Circle is an English translation. The Hebrew word is better translated as Compass. So a better translation is, He walks above Heaven and encompasses it.

It's right in the concordance.

 

[d taylor]

As I mentioned before psalm 136:6 happened during creation it is right there in the context of the chapter. Earth has had a couple of supercontinents its part of the cycle of earth, indeed earth will go through another supercontinent event.

Heaven isn't a flat circle that God walks above either.

Job 22:14
Thick clouds cover Him, so that He cannot see, And He walks above the circle of heaven.’

-​

The the single piece of circular earth (land) was divided in Peleg's day
To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Circle is an English translation. The Hebrew word is better translated as Compass. So a better translation is, He walks above Heaven and encompasses it.

It's right in the concordance.

The Hebrew word is better translated as Compass? Why is it not translated as Compass in over 60 translations of the Hebrew Scriptures and in the vast majority of them (40) they translate "khoog" as circle? Only the Wycliffe translation translates it as compass. Thanks to Wycliffe the word compass has been found in some bible lexicons and concordances.

However, here are over 60 Hebrew translations of Isaiah 40:22 and forty of them translate "khoog" as circle. Yet you claim that the better translation is Compass.

Isaiah 40:22 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

You need to reexamine your position. Translating khoog as Compass makes no sense and the verse doesn't say what you claim it does. You claim that it should be translated as "He walks above Heaven and encompasses it." Where does it say that?

Here are 60 translations for circuit (circle) in Job 22:14. None of them translate "khoog" as Compass. None of them. And yet you claim indirectly to be a bible scholar and claim to know that "He walks above Heaven and encompasses it" is a better translation. How do you know this unless you are a bible scholar of some kind?

Job 22:14 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

Isaiah 40:22 Parallel: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

biblehub.com

 

[Lost4words]

Whichever way you interpret it, the earth is still a sphere. God is not saying the earth is flat....

God has given us science. He has opened up His creation for us to explore.

In doing so, we plainly observe that the earth is a sphere.

 

[BeyondET]

-​

The the single piece of circular earth (land) was divided in Peleg's day
To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.

Even when book of jubilee was written. They knew what divide the earth meant. It wasn't literally.

8. And in the sixth
1567 A.M.year thereof, she bare him a son, and he called his name Peleg; for in the days when he was born the children of Noah began to divide the earth amongst themselves: for this reason he called his name Peleg