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SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

1. Do you think that the response to the original post has debunked the or objections to EGW


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SabbathBlessings

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Did Jesus say that or is that what you want it to mean?
What did Jesus say? Do the Ten Commandments mean more than what they state? Jesus shows us how to keep the Spirit of the commandments quoting right from the Ten, which is greater than the letter not lesser. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out and if we remove anger in our heart towards our neighbor then the letter of “thou shalt not murder” would automatically be kept. You can read the scripture for yourself Matthew 5:19-30 and let me know what you think. Is Jesus giving permission to commit adultery or murder or increasing what it means to keep these commandments, which applies to all of the Ten. Jesus said not to break the least of the commandment(s) Mat 5:19 so if one thinks they can, their argument is not with me.

Anyway, its close to Sabbath so I must run.

God bless all!
 
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tall73

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tall73

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What did Jesus say? Do the Ten Commandments mean more than what they state? Jesus shows us how to keep the Spirit of the commandments quoting right from the Ten, which is greater than the letter not lesser. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out and if we remove anger in our heart towards our neighbor then the letter of “thou shalt not murder” would automatically be kept. You can read the scripture for yourself Matthew 5:19-30 and let me know what you think. Is Jesus giving permission to commit adultery or murder or increasing what it means to keep these commandments, which applies to all of the Ten. Jesus said not to break the least of the commandment(s) Mat 5:19 so if one thinks they can, their argument is not with me.

Anyway, its close to Sabbath so I must run.
By posting Matthew 5 you just answered your own question, which you would see if you didn't stop at verse 30.

Jesus continues to list commandments and give them the same treatment.

Matthew 5:31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except [l]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [n]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
 
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Leaf473

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I’m a Seventh day Adventist I believe in the 28 fundamentals beliefs, its no secret, which is why I post the link to them often so people do not have to wonder what do SDA’s believe
Is that a hearty Amen to what the fundamental beliefs say about Ellen White?

Almost all of the time when speaking of commandments(s) in scripture it is referring to the Ten.
Can you post from scripture where commandments (s) are referring to something other than the Ten?

Peace be with you, my sister!
 
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tall73

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It is singular- but the greatest commandment - love to God, love to man - summarize the Ten- the Ten give the details. Exodus 20:6.

It is not the summary of the ten. The whole law and prophets hang on those commandments, which express broad principles.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
 
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Leaf473

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When Moses goes up on Mount Sinai in Exodus 34, God talks with him about things such as the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Then towards the end of the chapter

Keeping in mind that this is the denomination specific theology area as opposed to the Sabbath and the law area, what does the SDA Church officially say about commandments other than the 10? Do they acknowledge that there are other commandments? Do they say what they are?
 
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Leaf473

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If one can’t even accept the basic Ten Commandments written and spoken by God, it would be fruitless to discuss the other laws.
As a kind of addendum to the post just above, I think it would be very fruitful to know what the official SDA position is on other commandments.
 
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tall73

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Also, how can the above be reconciled with John 1:1-5, which clearly establishes that it was through the Son all things were made, which would include created beings like the archangels including the fallen archangel which became the devil*, so I fail to see why God would need to gather together various eternal beings to present His son to them.

It does seem strange they would need such a demonstration.

Ellen White indicates Christ was involved in creation of the angels in The Great Controversy. But this section also has some issues. You can find the following statements in this chapter:


---
Before the entrance of evil there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator's will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial. Christ the Word, the Only Begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,—one in nature, in character, and in purpose,—the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers" (Colossians 1:16); and to Christ, equally with the Father, all heaven gave allegiance.
---

---
Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven.
---

Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father. In all the councils of God, Christ was a participant, while Lucifer was not permitted thus to enter into the divine purposes. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He thus honored above Lucifer?"


@prodromos @Leaf473
 
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SabbathBlessings

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By posting Matthew 5 you just answered your own question, which you would see if you didn't stop at verse 30.

Jesus continues to list commandments and give them the same treatment.

Matthew 5:31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except [l]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [n]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
How does what Jesus say in Matthew 5:19-30 contradict what He continued saying in Mat 5:31, 33, 38, 43

Furthermore is just that…in addition…
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It is not the summary of the ten. The whole law and prophets hang on those commandments, which express broad principles.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Love to God and man hang on all of the testimony of the Prophets and the Law no doubt but according to the clear Word of God one cannot love or know God by breaking His commandments.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments
 
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tall73

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How does what Jesus say in Matthew 5:19-30 contradict what He continued saying in Mat 5:31, 33, 38, 43

Furthermore is just that…in addition…


Why would it contradict? He called all of them commandments, which was what you asked about. The commandments are not just the ten.
 
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tall73

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SabbathBlessings

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Why would it contradict? He called all of them commandments, which was what you asked about.


Let’s quote it.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Which commandments is Jesus referring to? The Ten Commandments He quotes from them verbatim and note, He says not to break the least of the commandment(s) despite the opposite of what many others teach.

21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Then He adds- FUTHERMORE which means in addition, but notice how He ties divorce under most circumstances with one of the Ten Commandments

31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Oaths can be tied into the 9th commandment- lying

33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Love for our enemies is the greatest commandments and we cannot love God or neighbor by breaking the commandments of God 1 John 5:2-3

38"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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tall73

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Love for our enemies is the greatest commandments and we cannot love God or neighbor by breaking the commandments of God 1 John 5:2-3

38"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

Where in the ten do you find the above?
 
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tall73

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I think they are equally to be upheld, but yes I did reverse it.

Take care.
And by reversing it you missed the point. The two great commandments are the principles behind the whole law and prophets, not just the ten.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And by reversing it you missed the point. The two great commandments are the principles behind the whole law and prophets, not just the ten.
I don’t think I’m the one missing the point. Law and Prophets means the Word of God all of it. You’re being critical to be critical that’s fine, your free will. I’ll probably bow out as I don’t see us agreeing on anything but you take care.
 
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tall73

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38"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

Tall73 said:
Where in the ten do you find the above?

Love to God and Love to neighbor is keeping the commandments of God, not breaking them.

You dodged the question. Where do you find this in the ten?

38"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

You were asking where commandments referred to more than the ten. I noted that Matthew 5 included discussion of commandments outside of the ten.

And you tried to tie the various commandments to the ten. But you did not manage to do so with the above.

If the commandments include more than the ten (and they do), then keeping the commandments of God needs to take that into consideration.
 
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tall73

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I don’t think I’m the one missing the point. Law and Prophets means the Word of God all of it. You’re being critical to be critical that’s fine, your free will. I’ll probably bow out as I don’t see us agreeing on anything but you take care.

I am not being critical to be critical. I am noting that the two greatest commandments are great because they are the principles behind all of the Scripture, not just the ten commandments.

If everything hangs on them, then they are not just a summary of the ten.

It is up to you whether you wish to continue the conversation. However, if you are posting in a theology forum discussion of theology is usual and expected.
 
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