Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Show me the verse that says the earth is 6000 years old. Or did you find that on a fancy sheet of paper?

It's not one verse but is found by studying the meticulous genealogies that scripture provides us with.

When you look at the moon, you are not seeing it as it is now. You are seeing it as it was 1 and one-third seconds ago.
When you look at the sun, you are not seeing the sun as it is now. You are seeing it as it was 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
When you see Jupiter, you are seeing it as it was 52 minutes ago.
When you see Proxima Centauri, you are seeing it as it was 4 and a half years ago. (5.88 trillion miles)
When you see the Andromeda Galaxy, you are seeing it as it was 2 and a half million years ago.
The Web Telescope is viewing galaxies as they were 15 billion years ago.
That is what you see when you look into the sky.

You don't actually see those things, this is just what you've been told by the world. Excluding the moon and sun, which we can see, but to say it happened seconds, minutes, hours or days ago is based off of science which is just the understanding of man.

When you see a plane in the sky, do you need a scripture to tell you it is there? If you cannot find a scripture, do you insist there is no plane? The scripture does not say anything about moon landings, the planet Pluto, or automobiles. They must not exist either. Show me a scripture that talks about the monitor you are looking at right now or the keyboard you are typing on. No? Guess they are imaginary.

I don't need scripture to tell me there is a plane in the sky, or about the computer I am using because I interface with them. How often have you interfaced with the sun, or the moon, or Jupiter, or the Andromeda Galaxy? You haven't, you just believe what you've been told about those things, by men.

You do not need a high-level science degree to understand these simple principles that God put in place when He created the universe billions of years ago. We do not need to be afraid of these facts.

Where in the scripture does it say God created the earth billions of years ago? Should we overtake God's Word with man's understanding? I think that is a dangerous path to walk as we know (because the Bible tells us) that we are all wretched sinners, who constantly rebel against God.

 

[Diamond72]

Show me the verse that says the earth is 6000 years old.

We know Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago when we study the Genealogies in the Bible. The Geneology is very easy to understand from Adam to Abraham. Adam and Noah's father were both alive for 15 years. So it is possible that Lamech knew Adam. Bishop Usshers book studies all of the genealogies in the Bible. No one really disputes this. John Lightfoot worked alongside James Ussher and contributed to the field of biblical chronology. So we have the witness and testimony of two people.

 

[Diamond72]

How often have you interfaced with the sun, or the moon, or Jupiter, or the Andromeda Galaxy?

I interface with the moon when I study rocks made in a river. Because of their perfect balance. Also, when we study and understand the tide in the ocean.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We know Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago when we study the Genealogies in the Bible. The Geneology is very easy to understand from Adam to Abraham. Adam and Noah's father were both alive for 15 years. So it is possible that Lamech knew Adam. Bishop Usshers book studies all of the genealogies in the Bible. No one really disputes this. John Lightfoot worked alongside James Ussher and contributed to the field of biblical chronology. So we have the witness and testimony of two people.

But that was not the question. The question is, how old is the earth?

 

[BobRyan]

There is no conflict between Science and the Bible. NO ONE has ever shown me a conflict. You can believe in Science and you can believe in the Bible.

Certainly that is what I do.

To the best of our understanding. God gives us both to study and learn.

amen to that

 

[BobRyan]

I interface with the moon when I study rocks made in a river. Because of their perfect balance. Also, when we study and understand the tide in the ocean.

View attachment 335079

I gotta admit - I don't think those rocks balance at all.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Theistic Evolution is not clearly defined. Frances Collins tries, but he represents questionable ethics.

Show me the conflict or the problem. Claiming there is a problem does not define what the problem is. No one has ever shown me a conflict between science and the Bible. Lots of people have tried and failed. They only point out their own lack of insight and understanding.

The problem is Satan is the father of lies and deceives the whole world. Causing many to fall away from their lack of faith and understanding.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The problem is, as we are in the last hour, if you discount God's word when it come's to creation, which is clearly laid out in Genesis, where else in the scriptures do you discount his Word?
Regarding your last paragraph, nowhere do I make such a heretical claim, as I am sinner in need of the grace and blood of Jesus Christ. However to put your own ideas into scripture, your own understanding would be akin to that.

 

[BobRyan]

But that was not the question. The question is, how old is the earth?

Rocks on earth could be older than 6000 years since Gen 1 says that at the start of day 1 - "Water covered the surface of the deep" -- which leads the reader to view the deep as some sort of rock surface that is covered by water.

So there is no "let there be water" , and no "let there be a surface of the deep" in Gen 1. So that means the historic account in Gen 1 begins at a point where God had already made that water and already made that "surface of the deep".

so it is an outstanding question as to how old either of them were prior to Genesis 1's -- day 1.

 

[Diamond72]

The problem is, as we are in the last hour, if you discount God's word when it come's to creation

People are always guilty of what they accuse others of. You need to be very careful because now you have revealed yourself and we would not have known this about you if you did not judge or accuse others.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It's not one verse but is found by studying the meticulous genealogies that scripture provides us with.


You don't actually see those things, this is just what you've been told by the world. Excluding the moon and sun, which we can see, but to say it happened seconds, minutes, hours or days ago is based off of science which is just the understanding of man.


I don't need scripture to tell me there is a plane in the sky, or about the computer I am using because I interface with them. How often have you interfaced with the sun, or the moon, or Jupiter, or the Andromeda Galaxy? You haven't, you just believe what you've been told about those things, by men.


Where in the scripture does it say God created the earth billions of years ago? Should we overtake God's Word with man's understanding? I think that is a dangerous path to walk as we know (because the Bible tells us) that we are all wretched sinners, who constantly rebel against God.

Again... the question is not when was Adam created. The question is how old is the earth.
The rest of your comments are just self-defeating rhetoric. We "interface" with these things every time we look into the sky. They are not non-existent. They are there. The truth is we have interfaced directly with the moon and the planets. We know exactly how long a transmission from the outer planets takes to reach us because we have sent probes and vessels to these places and recorded the time it takes to "ping" them.
It is impossible to logically discuss these things with, sorry, illogical people. Nobody is saying God did not create the universe, the sun, the moon, the earth, all life, (through his life building machine), and Adam and Eve. All that is true. But don't pretend that just because you put on blinders and deny reality as it appears before us, you are correct. Blindness never resolves to correct. And denying reality is a very dangerous thing to do.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

I interface with the moon when I study rocks made in a river. Because of their perfect balance. Also, when we study and understand the tide in the ocean.

Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
Job 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

 

[Diamond72]

However to put your own ideas into scripture, your own understanding would be akin to that.

Science is not my own idea. This has to do with peer-reviewed research. Science and the Bible go hand in hand. If you accept one, you will accept the other because they confirm each other. Not our opinions.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We know Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago when we study the Genealogies in the Bible. The Geneology is very easy to understand from Adam to Abraham. Adam and Noah's father were both alive for 15 years. So it is possible that Lamech knew Adam. Bishop Usshers book studies all of the genealogies in the Bible. No one really disputes this. John Lightfoot worked alongside James Ussher and contributed to the field of biblical chronology. So we have the witness and testimony of two people.

Again... we are talking about the age of the earth... not when were Adam and Eve created.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

We know exactly how long a transmission from the outer planets takes to reach us because we have sent probes and vessels to these places and recorded the time it takes to "ping" them.

Whose we? You and the scientists at NASA? You can assassinate my character by calling me illogical but I'm just trying to press you on where you get these beliefs from, because it's not scripture. The title of the post is also not "how old is the earth", but "Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?"

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Whose we? You and the scientists at NASA? You can assassinate my character by calling me illogical but I'm just trying to press you on where you get these beliefs from, because it's not scripture. The title of the post is also not "how old is the earth", but "Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?"

Now you are trying to make this personal.
Later..

 

[BobRyan]

It is a fact that it takes time for light to leave the surface of an object and arrive at your eyes. That is a fact that can be proven by experiments, and duplicated. It has been proven many many times and factually proven by our manned trips to the moon.

When you look at the moon, you are not seeing it as it is now. You are seeing it as it was 1 and one-third seconds ago.
When you look at the sun, you are not seeing the sun as it is now. You are seeing it as it was 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.
When you see Jupiter, you are seeing it as it was 52 minutes ago.

I don't think that part is being debated.

When you see Proxima Centauri, you are seeing it as it was 4 and a half years ago. (5.88 trillion miles)

Not being debated

When you see the Andromeda Galaxy, you are seeing it as it was 2 and a half million years ago.

That is the debated part.

Around 13.8 billion years ago, "the universe expanded faster than the speed of light for a fraction of a second, a period called cosmic inflation"
quoted from:

Overview - NASA Science

The origin, evolution, and nature of the universe have fascinated and confounded humankind for centuries. New ideas and major discoveries made during the 20th

universe.nasa.gov

So the point is - that EVEN the MOST ATHEIST cosmologist on planet Earth HAS To have "expansion faster than the speed of light" for the Universe.

Obviously - Creationists will need something of that sort as well.

I don't claim that all of the Universe popped into being the moment that the Earth had its own local "day 1" and its own single revolution for "evening and morning" - one rotation with light on one side and darkness on the other side. The Bible creation account of Gen 1 gives the timeline for our local creation - this biosphere - this planet Earth and its sun, and moon.

The Web Telescope is viewing galaxies as they were 15 billion years ago.

Not if cosmic inflation happened faster than the speed of light.

That is what you see when you look into the sky.

When you see a plane in the sky, do you need a scripture to tell you it is there?

No. But you also do not have cosmic inflation taking place between you and that plane - faster than the speed of light.

 

[Diamond72]

Again... the question is not when was Adam created. The question is how old is the earth.

We can question how old is the dust that God used to create Adam.
Carl Sagan and Degrass Tyson claim we are star stuff.

The phrase "We are star stuff" is often attributed to Carl Sagan, and it reflects a concept related to the origins of elements and the interconnectedness of the universe. Neil deGrasse Tyson, a contemporary astrophysicist and science communicator, has also discussed and popularized this idea.

The concept stems from the understanding that the elements that make up our bodies and the Earth were formed through processes that occurred within stars. Stars undergo nuclear fusion, where lighter elements are converted into heavier elements through intense heat and pressure. These heavier elements are then released into space during events like supernovae (explosions of massive stars), enriching the interstellar medium with these elements.
When new stars and planetary systems form from this enriched material, they incorporate these heavier elements into their composition. This means that the atoms that make up our bodies, the Earth, and everything around us are ultimately the products of processes that occurred within stars billions of years ago.

The phrase "We are star stuff" highlights the cosmic connection between humans, the Earth, and the larger universe. It underscores the idea that the same basic building blocks that formed in the hearts of stars are present in our bodies and all living and non-living things on Earth. This concept has been celebrated for its poetic reflection of our shared origins in the cosmos and our deep connection to the universe.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

People are always guilty of what they accuse others of. You need to be very careful because now you have revealed yourself and we would not have known this about you if you did not judge or accuse others.

Ok then based off your own logic here

I do not claim to know or understand all there is in the Bible. Do you make that claim? Would that not make you God if you made that claim? Is this not the claim of the serpent in Genesis 3:5 "you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

Now you are trying to make this personal.
Later..

Is this not personal?

It is impossible to logically discuss these things with, sorry, illogical people.

 

[Diamond72]

the universe expanded faster than the speed of light for a fraction of a second, a period called cosmic inflation"

The universe can expand faster than the speed of light in certain contexts, as allowed by the principles of cosmology and general relativity. This concept is often misunderstood because it seems to contradict our everyday understanding of how objects move through space. However, the expansion of the universe involves the stretching of space itself, which is not constrained by the same limitations as the motion of objects within space.