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SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

1. Do you think that the response to the original post has debunked the or objections to EGW


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SabbathBlessings

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In my feeble efforts over the years to ascertain the theological rationale regarding the Law in the SDA the only thing I can come up with is that they, on one hand, display intense devotion in obeying all of God's commandments, but on the other hand, define those commands as actually being only the Ten Commandments of which the fourth Commandment is, by far and away, preeminent. That poses some curious contradictions, from my perspective. In actual practice, the SDA has redefined the dietary commandments of the Old Testament to conform to their conception of a vegetarian diet, although there is not the slightest hint of such a thing in the Ten Commandments.
This is not true. We know there are more laws than the Ten Commandments, and the only reason more emphasis is on the Sabbath commandment over the other 9 commandments is no one disputes the other nine, except maybe one denomination who agrees with 8 of the Ten. We believe in all Ten Commandments because that is what God wrote and told us to keep, not nine or eight. God said Remember the Sabbath day which everyone forgot, our all-knowing Creator added this Word by design. Take care.
 
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bbbbbbb

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This is not true. We know there are more laws than the Ten Commandments, and the only reason more emphasis is on the Sabbath commandment over the other 9 commandments is no one disputes the other nine, except maybe one denomination who agrees with 8 of the Ten. We believe in all Ten Commandments because that is what God wrote and told us to keep, not nine or eight.
Very well. Which of the commandments, other than the Ten, do you obey? Which don't you obey and why do you choose to ignore them?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Very well. Which of the commandments, other than the Ten, do you obey? Which don't you obey and why do you choose to ignore them?
I don't choose to ignore anything God told us to keep. How do you know what I do- I have never met you, so I would be careful of casting stones at someone you never met. Only God is all knowing, and we each will have to stand in Judgement before Him and scripture tells us we will be judged based on the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 which are amplified like Jesus taught Mat 5:19-30 so encompasses much more than the letter, but the letter is of course included as you can keep the greater commandment, by breaking the letter. Rom 8:4-8
 
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Leaf473

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Doesn't mean they're right either. In scripture, there is never a time when the majority got it right.

But I agree that they may not have stayed that way for very long :)

Jesus speaks about this many times in scripture- the majority takes the wide road, only a few takes the narrow path. In fact, we are told at His Second Coming will be like the days of Noah, where the majority did not get it right. He tells us not to scare us, but to give us as much warning as possible because He loves us and hopes we choose a different path.
A true messenger puts the light back on God's Word which is what she does.

Take care.
Is that a Yes, Ellen White was a messenger from God?
 
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Leaf473

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In my feeble efforts over the years to ascertain the theological rationale regarding the Law in the SDA the only thing I can come up with is that they, on one hand, display intense devotion in obeying all of God's commandments, but on the other hand, define those commands as actually being only the Ten Commandments of which the fourth Commandment is, by far and away, preeminent. That poses some curious contradictions, from my perspective. In actual practice, the SDA has redefined the dietary commandments of the Old Testament to conform to their conception of a vegetarian diet, although there is not the slightest hint of such a thing in the Ten Commandments.
I haven't really gotten a clear answer about whether the dietary laws still count as commandments, or if they're more like suggestions, in the SDA view.

Last time I looked on the official website, it didn't look like they were categorized as laws for today. But something you were still supposed to do, if I understood right :)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I haven't really gotten a clear answer about whether the dietary laws still count as commandments, or if they're more like suggestions, in the SDA view.

Last time I looked on the official website, it didn't look like they were categorized as laws for today. But something you were still supposed to do, if I understood right :)
Not everything is a commandment Neh 9:13

Yes, we keep the heath guidelines because there is never a time in scripture telling us they ended- up until His Second Coming Isa 66:17

God wants our bodies and minds healthy because we are a temple and dwelling place for the Holy Spirit.

Gotta run.

Take care.
 
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Leaf473

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Very well. Which of the commandments, other than the Ten, do you obey?
This to me shows the difficulty that any group faces when trying to divide up the law.

Ask them for an actual list, or even just to start a list, and one usually gets a vague answer.

Which don't you obey and why do you choose to ignore them?
 
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Leaf473

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Not everything is a commandment Neh 9:13
Well, could you list maybe five scripture passages that SDA's say contain commandments other than the 10?

Yes, we keep the heath guidelines because there is never a time in scripture telling us they ended- up until His Second Coming Isa 66:17

God wants our bodies and minds healthy because we are a temple and dwelling place for the Holy Spirit.

Gotta run.

Take care.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I don't choose to ignore anything God told us to keep. How do you know what I do- I have never met you, so I would be careful of casting stones at someone you never met. Only God is all knowing, and we each will have to stand in Judgement before Him.
I don't know what you do or don't do, which is the reason I asked you. In response to the question raised by Leaf473 I stated my perspective of SDA theology. As you know, I have never claimed to be anything close to an expert SDA theologian. You and Bob are probably the most active SDA posters here at CF and my perspective of the SDA is largely based on what the two of you post.

All I seem to get from the two of you is a complete insistence on the TEN COMMANDMENTS as being applicable to all of humanity. When it comes to other commandments, such as the dietary commandments I get a lot of waffling.

For the sake of discussion, I will ask you my questions again.

What, if any, of God's commandments other than the Ten Commandments, do you obey?

Which of God's commandments, other than the Ten Commandments, do you not obey and why?
 
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Leaf473

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Do you believe she was a messenger from God?

A true messenger puts the light back on God's Word which is what she does.

Is that a Yes, Ellen White was a messenger from God?
Just to clarify what I'm asking,

Do you say a hearty Amen to this?
"Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church."
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Just to clarify what I'm asking,

Do you say a hearty Amen to this?
"Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church."
I’m a Seventh day Adventist I believe in the 28 fundamentals beliefs, its no secret, which is why I post the link to them often so people do not have to wonder what do SDA’s believe
Well, could you list maybe five scripture passages that SDA's say contain commandments other than the 10?
Almost all of the time when speaking of commandments(s) in scripture it is referring to the Ten.

Can you post from scripture where commandments (s) are referring to something other than the Ten?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I don't know what you do or don't do, which is the reason I asked you. In response to the question raised by Leaf473 I stated my perspective of SDA theology. As you know, I have never claimed to be anything close to an expert SDA theologian. You and Bob are probably the most active SDA posters here at CF and my perspective of the SDA is largely based on what the two of you post.

All I seem to get from the two of you is a complete insistence on the TEN COMMANDMENTS as being applicable to all of humanity. When it comes to other commandments, such as the dietary commandments I get a lot of waffling.

For the sake of discussion, I will ask you my questions again.

What, if any, of God's commandments other than the Ten Commandments, do you obey?

Which of God's commandments, other than the Ten Commandments, do you not obey and why?
This sounds like condemnation to me….

Which don't you obey and why do you choose to ignore them?

Perhaps you can point to the scripture that says we do not have to obey the commandments(s) of God. According to by bible- they are kept until the very end of time for God’s people. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

If one can’t even accept the basic Ten Commandments written and spoken by God, it would be fruitless to discuss the other laws.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Leviticus 11:1 The Lord spoke again to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth. 3 Whatever divides a hoof, thus making split hoofs, and chews the cud, among the animals, that you may eat. 4 Nevertheless, you are not to eat of these, among those which chew the cud, or among those which divide the hoof: the camel, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you. 5 Likewise, the shaphan, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 6 the rabbit also, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 7 and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you. 8 You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

9 ‘These you may eat, whatever is in the water: all that have fins and scales, those in the water, in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat. 10 But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you, 11 and they shall be abhorrent to you; you may not eat of their flesh, and their carcasses you shall detest. 12 Whatever in the water does not have fins and scales is abhorrent to you.

13 ‘These, moreover, you shall detest among the birds; they are abhorrent, not to be eaten: the eagle and the vulture and the buzzard, 14 and the kite and the falcon in its kind, 15 every raven in its kind, 16 and the ostrich and the owl and the sea gull and the hawk in its kind, 17 and the little owl and the cormorant and the great owl, 18 and the white owl and the pelican and the carrion vulture, 19 and the stork, the heron in its kinds, and the hoopoe, and the bat.

20 ‘All the winged insects that walk on all fours are detestable to you. 21 Yet these you may eat among all the winged insects which walk on all fours: those which have above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on the earth. 22 These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds. 23 But all other winged insects which are four-footed are detestable to you.

24 ‘By these, moreover, you will be made unclean: whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening, 25 and whoever picks up any of their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. 26 Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you: whoever touches them becomes unclean. 27 Also whatever walks on its paws, among all the creatures that walk on all fours, are unclean to you; whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening, 28 and the one who picks up their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; they are unclean to you.

29 ‘Now these are to you the unclean among the swarming things which swarm on the earth: the mole, and the mouse, and the great lizard in its kinds, 30 and the gecko, and the crocodile, and the lizard, and the sand reptile, and the chameleon. 31 These are to you the unclean among all the swarming things; whoever touches them when they are dead becomes unclean until evening. 32 Also anything on which one of them may fall when they are dead becomes unclean, including any wooden article, or clothing, or a skin, or a sack—any article of which use is made—it shall be put in the water and be unclean until evening, then it becomes clean. 33 As for any earthenware vessel into which one of them may fall, whatever is in it becomes unclean and you shall break the vessel. 34 Any of the food which may be eaten, on which water comes, shall become unclean, and any liquid which may be drunk in every vessel shall become unclean. 35 Everything, moreover, on which part of their carcass may fall becomes unclean; an oven or a stove shall be smashed; they are unclean and shall continue as unclean to you. 36 Nevertheless a spring or a cistern collecting water shall be clean, though the one who touches their carcass shall be unclean. 37 If a part of their carcass falls on any seed for sowing which is to be sown, it is clean. 38 Though if water is put on the seed and a part of their carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you.

39 ‘Also if one of the animals dies which you have for food, the one who touches its carcass becomes unclean until evening. 40 He too, who eats some of its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening, and the one who picks up its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening.

41 ‘Now every swarming thing that swarms on the earth is detestable, not to be eaten. 42 Whatever crawls on its belly, and whatever walks on all fours, whatever has many feet, in respect to every swarming thing that swarms on the earth, you shall not eat them, for they are detestable. 43 Do not render yourselves detestable through any of the swarming things that swarm; and you shall not make yourselves unclean with them so that you become unclean. 44 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your God; thus you shall be holy, for I am holy.’”

46 This is the law regarding the animal and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters and everything that swarms on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.
 
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bbbbbbb

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This sounds like condemnation to me….



Perhaps you can point to the scripture that says we do not have to obey the commandments(s) of God. According to by bible- they are kept until the very end of time for God’s people. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

If one can’t even accept the basic Ten Commandments written and spoken by God, it would be fruitless to discuss the other laws.
I doubt it is fruitless, because you profess to accept the basic Ten Commandments, do you not? If so, what do you do with all of the other commandments, such as those in Leviticus 11, which I just posted and which are not referenced in the Ten Commandments?

Here is another set of commandments which are unrelated to the Ten Commandments. What do you think about them?

Leviticus 14:33 The Lord further spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying:

34 “When you enter the land of Canaan, which I give you for a possession, and I put a mark of leprosy on a house in the land of your possession, 35 then the one who owns the house shall come and tell the priest, saying, ‘Something like a mark of leprosy has become visible to me in the house.’ 36 The priest shall then command that they empty the house before the priest goes in to look at the mark, so that everything in the house need not become unclean; and afterward the priest shall go in to look at the house. 37 So he shall look at the mark, and if the mark on the walls of the house has greenish or reddish depressions and appears deeper than the surface, 38 then the priest shall come out of the house, to the doorway, and quarantine the house for seven days. 39 The priest shall return on the seventh day and make an inspection. If the mark has indeed spread in the walls of the house, 40 then the priest shall order them to tear out the stones with the mark in them and throw them away at an unclean place outside the city. 41 He shall have the house scraped all around inside, and they shall dump the plaster that they scrape off at an unclean place outside the city. 42 Then they shall take other stones and replace those stones, and he shall take other plaster and replaster the house.

43 “If, however, the mark breaks out again in the house after he has torn out the stones and scraped the house, and after it has been replastered, 44 then the priest shall come in and make an inspection. If he sees that the mark has indeed spread in the house, it is a malignant mark in the house; it is unclean. 45 He shall therefore tear down the house, its stones, and its timbers, and all the plaster of the house, and he shall take them outside the city to an unclean place. 46 Moreover, whoever goes into the house during the time that he has quarantined it, becomes unclean until evening. 47 Likewise, whoever lies down in the house shall wash his clothes, and whoever eats in the house shall wash his clothes.

48 “If, on the other hand, the priest comes in and makes an inspection and the mark has not indeed spread in the house after the house has been replastered, then the priest shall pronounce the house clean because the mark has not reappeared. 49 To cleanse the house then, he shall take two birds and cedar wood and a scarlet string and hyssop, 50 and he shall slaughter the one bird in an earthenware vessel over running water. 51 Then he shall take the cedar wood and the hyssop and the scarlet string, with the live bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird as well as in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times. 52 He shall thus cleanse the house with the blood of the bird and with the running water, along with the live bird and with the cedar wood and with the hyssop and with the scarlet string. 53 However, he shall let the live bird go free outside the city into the open field. So he shall make atonement for the house, and it will be clean.”

54 This is the law for any mark of leprosy—even for a scale, 55 and for the leprous garment or house, 56 and for a swelling, and for a scab, and for a bright spot— 57 to teach when they are unclean and when they are clean. This is the law of leprosy.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I doubt it is fruitless, because you profess to accept the basic Ten Commandments, do you not? If so, what do you do with all of the other commandments, such as those in Leviticus 11, which I just posted and which are not referenced in the Ten Commandments?

Here is another set of commandments which are unrelated to the Ten Commandments. What do you think about them?

Leviticus 14:33 The Lord further spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying:

34 “When you enter the land of Canaan, which I give you for a possession, and I put a mark of leprosy on a house in the land of your possession, 35 then the one who owns the house shall come and tell the priest, saying, ‘Something like a mark of leprosy has become visible to me in the house.’ 36 The priest shall then command that they empty the house before the priest goes in to look at the mark, so that everything in the house need not become unclean; and afterward the priest shall go in to look at the house. 37 So he shall look at the mark, and if the mark on the walls of the house has greenish or reddish depressions and appears deeper than the surface, 38 then the priest shall come out of the house, to the doorway, and quarantine the house for seven days. 39 The priest shall return on the seventh day and make an inspection. If the mark has indeed spread in the walls of the house, 40 then the priest shall order them to tear out the stones with the mark in them and throw them away at an unclean place outside the city. 41 He shall have the house scraped all around inside, and they shall dump the plaster that they scrape off at an unclean place outside the city. 42 Then they shall take other stones and replace those stones, and he shall take other plaster and replaster the house.

43 “If, however, the mark breaks out again in the house after he has torn out the stones and scraped the house, and after it has been replastered, 44 then the priest shall come in and make an inspection. If he sees that the mark has indeed spread in the house, it is a malignant mark in the house; it is unclean. 45 He shall therefore tear down the house, its stones, and its timbers, and all the plaster of the house, and he shall take them outside the city to an unclean place. 46 Moreover, whoever goes into the house during the time that he has quarantined it, becomes unclean until evening. 47 Likewise, whoever lies down in the house shall wash his clothes, and whoever eats in the house shall wash his clothes.

48 “If, on the other hand, the priest comes in and makes an inspection and the mark has not indeed spread in the house after the house has been replastered, then the priest shall pronounce the house clean because the mark has not reappeared. 49 To cleanse the house then, he shall take two birds and cedar wood and a scarlet string and hyssop, 50 and he shall slaughter the one bird in an earthenware vessel over running water. 51 Then he shall take the cedar wood and the hyssop and the scarlet string, with the live bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird as well as in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times. 52 He shall thus cleanse the house with the blood of the bird and with the running water, along with the live bird and with the cedar wood and with the hyssop and with the scarlet string. 53 However, he shall let the live bird go free outside the city into the open field. So he shall make atonement for the house, and it will be clean.”

54 This is the law for any mark of leprosy—even for a scale, 55 and for the leprous garment or house, 56 and for a swelling, and for a scab, and for a bright spot— 57 to teach when they are unclean and when they are clean. This is the law of leprosy.
Where are the words commandment (s) I don’t see them in this passage. A command is not the same as ‘the commandments(s)’. It’s looks like something the priest commanded, but we are in the New Covenant and Jesus is now our High Priest.

My question is where in scripture does it say commandment(s) plural that refer to something other than the Ten Commandments.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Where are the words commandment (s) I don’t see them in this passage. A command is not the same as ‘the commandments(s)’. It’s looks like something the priest commanded, but we are in the New Covenant and Jesus is now our High Priest.

My question is where in scripture does it say commandment(s) plural that refer to something other than the Ten Commandments.
Ah, I see now. God can command loads of things, but unless he calls those things "commandments" they are really not commandments, but just recommendations.

Please point out any place in the following passage where the word "commandments" appears. Thank you.

Exodus 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Please point out any place in the following passage where the word "commandments" appears. Thank you.

6 but showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Exodus 20:6 but showing loving kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Can you show from scripture where “the commandment (s)” mean something other than the Ten.

If you find scripture stating otherwise feel free to share.

God defined His commandments right in the Ten Exodus 20:6 so every time we see “My commandments” “His commandments” “the commandment(s) of God” we know they include the Ten Commandments. Sad so many try to downsize these despite God telling us repeatedly in scripture to keep them through love.

Does God have other laws, statues, judgments and ordinances- yes Neh 9:13 but He only has one set of commandment(s) that include Ten personally written by God Himself, not 9 or 8. Exo 31:18, Exo 32:16 Deut 4:13
 
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bbbbbbb

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Can you show from scripture where “the commandment (s)” mean something other than the Ten.

If you find scripture stating otherwise feel free to share.

God defined His commandments right in the Ten Exodus 20:6 so every time we see “My commandments” “His commandments” “the commandment(s) of God” we know they include the Ten Commandments. Sad so many try to downsize these despite God telling us repeatedly in scripture to keep them through love.

Does God have other laws, statues, judgments and ordinances- yes Neh 9:13 but He only has one set of commandments that include Ten personally written by God Himself, not 9 or 8. Exo 31:18, Exo 32:16 Deut 4:13
Assuredly.

34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Here 'tis - two commandments, not ten. Two summarizing the whole Law and the Prophets, not just ten commands within the Law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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34 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

Here 'tis - two commandments, not ten. Two summarizing the whole Law and the Prophets, not just ten commands within the Law.

It is singular- but the greatest commandment - love to God, love to man - summarize the Ten- the Ten give the details. Exodus 20:6.


1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Love to God is keeping His commandments (s) so we cannot keep the greatest commandment if one is breaking the Ten.

The Ten represent much more than the written law as Jesus explains and tells us not to break the least of the commandment(s) Matthew 5:19-30
 
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It is singular- but the greatest commandment - love to God, love to man - summarize the Ten- the Ten give the details. Exodus 20:6. The Ten represent much more than the written law as Jesus explains and tells us not to break the least of the commandment(s) Matthew 5:19-30


1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Love to God is keeping His commandments (s) so we cannot keep the greatest commandment if one is breaking the Ten.
Did Jesus say that or is that what you want it to mean?
 
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