The Sabbath debate goes on, but should it?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

while the Jews were cut off.

Not all were...

 

[Clare73]

Not all were...

Indeed, a remnant is being saved to this day, as is a remnant of the Gentiles.

 

[Clare73]

I think God can speak for Himself- and He did. It’s just a matter if we have faith to believe in every Word that proceeds from His mouth.

Actually, it is a matter of understanding all Scripture in the light of the NT.
Things aren't the same in the NT as they were in the OT.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Actually, it is a matter of understanding all Scripture in the light of the NT.
Things aren't the same in the NT as they were in the OT.

Some things, not everything which is why Jesus and the apostles quoted from it often in their teachings, instead of deleting it. In fact, Jesus said if we do not believe Moses, we do not believe Him. John 5:46-47

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Galatians were former pagans...

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

If they were pagans and were turning back to those weak and miserable forces, would that not mean that they were reverting to pagan practices, and not to the Law of the Jews? If that is the case, why does Paul attack the concept of being enslaved to the Law of the Jews and not pagan practices?

 

[Clare73]

Some things, not everything which is why Jesus and the apostles quoted from it often in their teachings, instead of deleting it. In fact, Jesus said if we do not believe Moses, we do not believe Him. John 5:46-47

And the rest of the story. . .

Loose handling of Scripture.
Jesus is referring to Moses' testimony to Jesus' coming (Dt 18:18-19). He is not referring to the Mosaic law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And the rest of the story. . .

Loose handling of Scripture.
Jesus is referring to Moses' testimony to Jesus' coming (Dt 18:18-19). He is not referring to the Mosaic law.

I try not to read into what Jesus says and believe what He actually says.

John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Moses wrote many things, part of it was Jesus coming, but that doesn't delete the rest of his writings. Jesus quotes from the Law of Moses often in His teachings instead of deleting them, in fact that's where the greatest commandments came from, the law of Moses so not all of the Mosaic law ended.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If they were pagans and were turning back to those weak and miserable forces, would that not mean that they were reverting to pagan practices, and not to the Law of the Jews? If that is the case, why does Paul attack the concept of being enslaved to the Law of the Jews and not pagan practices?

2 different things. Some were mixing paganism and Christianity.

 

[bbbbbbb]

2 different things. Some were mixing paganism and Christianity.

Although that is probably quite true, Paul does not even hint at it in his letter to the Galatians. Instead, his focus is clearly on those who have surrendered themselves to obeying the Jewish law. That would include both the Gentiles (who probably constituted the large majority of the assembly) as well as any Jews there.

 

[Clare73]

I try not to read into what Jesus says and believe what He actually says.

That explains a lot.
Absent the context of all Scripture definitely explains the contra-NT thinking.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That explains a lot.
Absent the context of all Scripture definitely explains the contra-NT thinking.

No I just believe Jesus without needing to edit His Words. Take care.

 

[Clare73]

No I just believe Jesus without needing to edit His Words. Take care.

Failure to understand Scripture in context of all the NT is failure to understand Scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Failure to understand Scripture in context of all the NT is failure to understand Scripture.

Agreed. Jesus is pretty easy to understand so no need for an alternate interpretation. Since you believe all the Mosiac law ended can you point to the scripture where we no longer need to keep the greatest commandments?

 

[Clare73]

Agreed. Jesus is pretty easy to understand so no need for an alternate interpretation. Since you believe all the Mosiac law ended

Straw man. . .

The ceremonial (Levitcal) laws have been abolished (Eph 2:15).

The Decalogue was summed up in one rule: love of God and love of neighbor as self (Ro 13:8-10).

"He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law." (Ro 13:8)
"Whatever other commandments there may be are summed up in one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' " (Ro 13:9)
"Love is the fulfillment of the law." (Ro 13:10).

can you point to the scripture where we no longer need to keep the greatest commandments?

Can you point to the Scripture which denies that he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law, whatever other laws there may be
(Ro 13:8-9)?

 

[BobRyan]

Were the Galatians originally Jews or Pagans???

pagans.

Gal 4:
6 Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? 10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

The Galatians were former pagans...

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

Exactly right.

They were not "Gentiles returning to their Jewish roots" - -- but they are former pagans newly converted to Christ/the-Gospel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Straw man. . .

The ceremonial (Levitcal) laws have been abolished (Eph 2:15).

The Decalogue was summed up in one rule: love of God and love of neighbor as self (Ro 13:8-10).

"He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law." (Ro 13:8)
"Whatever other commandments there may be are summed up in one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' " (Ro 13:9)
"Love is the fulfillment of the law." (Ro 13:10).

Can you point to the Scripture which denies that he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law, whatever other laws there may be
(Ro 13:8-9)?

That wasn't the question- you said Jesus when He spoke about Moses' writings, He wasn't referring to the Mosaic law, Jesus quoted from the greatest commandments from the Mosaic law, which means not all of the Mosaic law ended.

Your response is way off topic, but love does fulfill the law, love is defined by God, not by us and the summary does not delete the details of love to God, which according to clear scripture love to God is keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, John 14:15- the unedited version Deut 4:2, the ones He personally wrote and spoke. Exodus 20 Exodus 20:6, the same ones Jesus told us to keep over our rules Matthew 15:3-9

 

[BobRyan]

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The new Covenant is also a marriage covenant, Yeshua being our bridegroom. Instituted at the Last Supper...and you gentiles are grafted in.

while the Jews were cut off.

The New Covenant is specifically made with "The house of Israel and the house of Judah"

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

Unbelieving Jews were cut off - and the believing ones (such as the Apostles and all those of Acts 2, Acts 15, Acts 21 ...) remained as Rom 11 points out.

 

[BobRyan]

The Decalogue was summed up in one rule: love of God and love of neighbor as self (Ro 13:8-10).

"He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law." (Ro 13:8)
"Whatever other commandments there may be are summed up in one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' " (Ro 13:9)
"Love is the fulfillment of the law." (Ro 13:10).

Summed up (means summarized) it does not mean "abolished".

Can you point to the Scripture which denies that he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law, whatever other laws there may be
(Ro 13:8-9)?

Yes -- according to Christ it misses "The GREATEST Commandment" and all those Laws cased on it.

- Matt 22:
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment.

You are only focused on the "second greatest one" so far.

39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’


40 Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”

 

[BobRyan]

SabbathBlessings said:

I try not to read into what Jesus says and believe what He actually says.

Amen. Doing otherwise would be eisegesis - reading your bias INTO scripture

That explains a lot.

Indeed it does.

Give it some thought.

 

[BobRyan]

And the rest of the story. . .

Loose handling of Scripture.
Jesus is referring to Moses' testimony to Jesus' coming (Dt 18:18-19). He is not referring to the Mosaic law.

false.

Jesus calls the Mosaic Law "the Word of God" , the "Commandment of God" and condemns those who try and edit/downsize/delete/set-aside that Law in Mark 7:7-13 as we have all seen in that example many times.