IRS agent accidentally shot, killed by fellow agent during training at Phoenix gun range

[Wings like Eagles]

Why does the left want armed IRS agents again?

IRS agent accidentally shot, killed by fellow agent during training at Phoenix gun range

IRS officials identified the agent as 47-year-old Patrick Bauer.

www.azfamily.com

 

[Arcangl86]

Why does the left want armed IRS agents again?

IRS agent accidentally shot, killed by fellow agent during training at Phoenix gun range

IRS officials identified the agent as 47-year-old Patrick Bauer.

www.azfamily.com

A tragic training accident occurred and your first instinct is to use it to attack the left?

 

[Aldebaran]

A tragic training accident occurred and your first instinct is to use it to attack the left?

A question is not an attack.
Also, feeling defensive does not mean you were attacked.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Why would they reduce ICE agents with guns at the border (for non citizens) only to increase IRS agents with them (for citizens)

That is sad though. The IRS is now down from 80,000 armed agents to 79, 999.

Edited, I actually mispelled border, my bad
Correction: the 87,000 down to 86,999 my bad again

 

[Fireinfolding]

A question is not an attack.
Also, feeling defensive does not mean you were attacked.

I forgot to add my question mark but it is a question, not an attack.

 

[Arcangl86]

Why would they reduce ICE agents with guns at the border (for non citizens) only to increase IRS agents with them (for citizens)

10 ICE actually isn't at the border that's BCP. And Both of those agencies have actually gotten budget increases. 2) IRS CI has been fairly steady in size for decades.

That is sad though. The IRS is now down from 80,000 armed agents to 79, 999.

The IRS doesn't have and isn't trying to have 80,000 armed agents. The only armed agents are part of the Criminal Investigation division, which is actually one of the oldest law enforcement agencies in the US. It's about 2,200 sworn agents.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Why does the left want armed IRS agents again?

As the U.S declines because of corrupt politicians and their policies and its people become poorer under them tougher measures must be implimented to make sure its people have their priorities straight, and armed IRS will make sure everyone gets the picture as to what the expected highest priorities are.

Raise taxes while arming the IRS, the writing is on the wall, seems pretty clear.

 

[Fireinfolding]

10 ICE actually isn't at the border that's BCP. And Both of those agencies have actually gotten budget increases. 2) IRS CI has been fairly steady in size for decades.

There is CBP which is supposed to focus on enforcement at the border, while ICE is supposed to focus on enforcing immigration laws in the

Says on their own website,

Working for ICE

www.ice.gov

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) employees protect America from the cross-border crime and illegal immigration that threaten national security and public safety. To carry out our mission, ICE focuses on legal and safe immigration enforcement, terrorism prevention and combating transnational criminal threats.

So they did not increase the number of IRS agents?

I actually did get the number of the proposed agents wrong, I just read the number was 87,000 and not 80,000 (as I posted).. I greatly underestimated that number from memory.

The IRS doesn't have and isn't trying to have 80,000 armed agents. The only armed agents are part of the Criminal Investigation division, which is actually one of the oldest law enforcement agencies in the US. It's about 2,200 sworn agents.

So the criminal division of the IRS are the armed division of the IRS? And the people who dont file, or do not pay their taxes would be the criminals here or no?

 

[Wings like Eagles]

As the U.S declines because of corrupt politicians and their policies and its people become poorer under them tougher measures must be implimented to make sure its people have their priorities straight, and armed IRS will make sure everyone gets the picture as to what the expected highest priorities are.

Raise taxes while arming the IRS, the writing is on the wall, seems pretty clear.

Agreed - the intent is crystal clear.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Agreed - the intent is crystal clear.

You know, there is reported to be some sort of IRS employee handbook which outlines procedures for collecting taxes even after a nuclear attack. And its something like within 30 days of such an attack, I wonder if thats true, and if true, who sat down and actually thought of writing that into an employee handbook?

So even a nuclear event will not save you from the IRS?

Unless you died in that event ofcourse.

I know its a bit off topic but have you heard this, or know whether this is true?

Either way, life does goes on and taxes must be collected even after being doused with high levels of radiation.

 

[Arcangl86]

There is CBP which is supposed to focus on enforcement at the border, while ICE is supposed to focus on enforcing immigration laws in the

Says on their own website,

Working for ICE

www.ice.gov

So the criminal division of the IRS are the armed division of the IRS? And the people who dont file, or do not pay their taxes would be the criminals here or no?

There is CBP which is supposed to focus on enforcement at the border, while ICE is supposed to focus on enforcing immigration laws in the

Says on their own website,

Working for ICE

www.ice.gov

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) employees protect America from the cross-border crime and illegal immigration that threaten national security and public safety. To carry out our mission, ICE focuses on legal and safe immigration enforcement, terrorism prevention and combating transnational criminal threats.

Which is what I said

So they did not increase the number of IRS agents?

I actually did get the number of the proposed agents wrong, I just read the number was 87,000 and not 80,000 (as I posted).. I greatly underestimated that number from memory.

No, the estimate is for 87k new employees over the course of 10 years. Not everybody in the IRS does enforcement and of that number the CI, which are the armed and sworn federal agents, is a small number.

So the criminal division of the IRS are the armed division of the IRS? And the people who dont file, or do not pay their taxes would be the criminals here or no?

Uh, some of them. Simply failing to file or pay taxes isn't by itself criminal, but they can be part of criminal violations of the IRC. IRC-CI also deals with other financial crimes such as money laundry and fraud.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

So even a nuclear event will not save you from the IRS?

I know its a bit off topic but have you heard this, or know whether this is true?

Not sure if that is true or not, probably though.

 

[Fireinfolding]

So the criminal division of the IRS are the armed division of the IRS? And the people who dont file, or do not pay their taxes would be the criminals here or no?

The above quote is my question, I think you did something with the quote feature that is making it appear you are asking this.

Which is what I said

You said BCP, but you probably meant CBP.

No, the estimate is for 87k new employees over the course of 10 years.

Obviously they aren't decreasing them but are increasing them, they just have not increased them all at once but are now increasing them over a 10 year period of time is better said then correct?

Not everybody in the IRS does enforcement and of that number the CI, which are the armed and sworn federal agents, is a small number.

I never heard of an armed IRS so I didnt think anyone was an enforcement agent of that kind, only heard of them increasing the armed kinds of IRS beyond.

Uh, some of them. Simply failing to file or pay taxes isn't by itself criminal, but they can be part of criminal violations of the IRC. IRC-CI also deals with other financial crimes such as money laundry and fraud.

Exactly, I mean who else does IRS have a jurisdiction over except people who might fail to pay them or to file their taxes. I dont know who else they could take by gunpoint.

 

[Arcangl86]

The above quote is my question, I think you did something with the quote feature that is making it appear you are asking this.


You said BCP, but you probably meant CBP.

Yeah that was a typo.

Obviously they aren't decreasing them but are increasing them, they just have not increased them all at once but are now increasing them over a 10 year period of time is better said then correct?

Yes, but it's not really cut and dried. They are increasing over 10 years, but part of the growth is to account for 52000 people expected to leave the IRS during the same period. And the IRS has been underfunded for years if not decades. The staffing level before the expansion started was about the same as it was during the 1970s even though the country is much bigger and the IRS has many more duties since then. So even though there will be a slight increase in the size of the IRS when all is said and done, proportionately it would actually be closer to historic levels before they became a political football.

I never heard of an armed IRS so I didnt think anyone was an enforcement agent of that kind, only heard of them increasing the armed kinds of IRS beyond.

The IRS Criminal Investigation division has been around since 1918. They are actually the people who brought down Al Capone, not the Untouchables. But they are a very small branch of the agency and there are no plans to expand them significantly that I've heard of.

Exactly, I mean who else does IRS have a jurisdiction over except people who might fail to pay them or to file their taxes. I dont know who else they could take by gunpoint.

No you are right, their jurisdiction is over those who violate the Internal Revenue Code. You know who often violates the IRC? Organized crime, drug dealers, terrorists, conmen, corrupt government officials etc... A lot of very bad people break the IRC. See above about Al Capone.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, but it's not really cut and dried. They are increasing over 10 years, but part of the growth is to account for 52000 people expected to leave the IRS during the same period. And the IRS has been underfunded for years if not decades. The staffing level before the expansion started was about the same as it was during the 1970s even though the country is much bigger and the IRS has many more duties since then. So even though there will be a slight increase in the size of the IRS when all is said and done, proportionately it would actually be closer to historic levels before they became a political football.

The 52,000 "unarmed" IRS agent types (which are leaving) are still being replaced with these other 87,000 "armed" IRS agent types though. Wouldn't that be considered a little disproportionate?

The IRS Criminal Investigation division has been around since 1918. They are actually the people who brought down Al Capone, not the Untouchables. But they are a very small branch of the agency and there are no plans to expand them significantly that I've heard of.

I gotcha, so instead of it being reported that the 97 billion dollars in the Inflation Reduction Act is specifically for the Criminal Investigation division of the IRS its put out there (as I stated above) which is basically "armed IRS agents which sounds like they are going to stick a gun to poor peoples heads for a hundred bucks worth of back taxes or something.

No you are right, their jurisdiction is over those who violate the Internal Revenue Code. You know who often violates the IRC? Organized crime, drug dealers, terrorists, conmen, corrupt government officials etc... A lot of very bad people break the IRC. See above about Al Capone.

That would make sense given the border is wide open that they need armed IRS agents for all the cartels that are likely pouring into the U.S.

 

[Arcangl86]

The 52,000 "unarmed" IRS agent types (which are leaving) are still being replaced with these other 87,000 "armed" IRS agent types though. Wouldn't that be considered a little disproportionate?

They aren't though. As I've said multiple times, there is no indication that CI is being expanded beyond it's current size, which has been consistent for years.

I gotcha, so instead of it being reported that the 97 billion dollars in the Inflation Reduction Act is specifically for the Criminal Investigation division of the IRS its put out there (as I stated above) which is basically "armed IRS agents which sounds like they are going to stick a gun to poor peoples heads for a hundred bucks worth of back taxes or something.

But it isn't. That's simply not true and I wish you would stop spreading this disinformation.

 

[Fireinfolding]

They aren't though. As I've said multiple times, there is no indication that CI is being expanded beyond it's current size, which has been consistent for years.

You agreed that 52,000 are leaving and 87,000 were on board no?

But it isn't. That's simply not true and I wish you would stop spreading this disinformation.

I was mocking the disinformation not spreading it, try rereading what I said.

 

[Arcangl86]

You agreed that 52,000 are leaving and 87,000 were on board no?

Yes, 52000 are leaving and 87000 will be brought on. But most of those won't be enforcement at all, and especially not CI, which is the only branch that is armed.

I was mocking the disinformation not spreading it, try rereading what I said.

Sorry, I misread. But the point is that the CI isn't being expanded in any real way.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, 52000 are leaving and 87000 will be brought on. But most of those won't be enforcement at all, and especially not CI, which is the only branch that is armed.

Sorry, I misread. But the point is that the CI isn't being expanded in any real way.

You keep saying, CI, I dont even know what that is so you will lose me there

 

[Arcangl86]

You keep saying, CI, I dont even know what that is so you will lose me there

Criminal Investigations.