Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Doug Brents]

Man by nature doesnt seek after God, never has and never will, its a wrap Rom 3:11-12

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Look at the full context of those words. They are not teaching what you are spouting.

1 Kings 15:4-5 - "But for David’s sake the Lord his God gave him a lamp in Jerusalem, to raise up his son after him and to establish Jerusalem; 5 because David did what was right in the sight of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the case of Uriah the Hittite."

Psalm 63:1 - "O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You,"

If David did what was right in the sight of God, and he earnestly sought God, that puts the lie to your interpretation of Rom 3. I do not debate with you that those words are there in Scripture. What I am saying is that your interpretation of what they mean is completely false, and these two passages give positive proof that your interpretation is false.

 

[Brightfame52]

Look at the full context of those words. They are not teaching what you are spouting.

1 Kings 15:4-5 - "But for David’s sake the Lord his God gave him a lamp in Jerusalem, to raise up his son after him and to establish Jerusalem; 5 because David did what was right in the sight of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the case of Uriah the Hittite."

Psalm 63:1 - "O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You,"

If David did what was right in the sight of God, and he earnestly sought God, that puts the lie to your interpretation of Rom 3. I do not debate with you that those words are there in Scripture. What I am saying is that your interpretation of what they mean is completely false, and these two passages give positive proof that your interpretation is false.

Man by nature doesnt seek after God, never has and never will, its a wrap Rom 3:11-12

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[AbbaLove]

Man by nature doesnt seek after God, never has and never will, its a wrap Rom 3:11-12

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Therfore you might conclude that Paul would not be opposed to Calvinism any more than to Arminianism. With God all things are possible when it comes to man's religious theology -

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am sorry there was no poll associated with this interesting thread. If there was a poll, my answer would be a strong no, natural man never seeks God on his own.

 

[Brightfame52]

Therfore you might conclude that Paul would not be opposed to Calvinism any more than to Arminianism. With God all things are possible when it comes to man's religious theology -

This is what Paul believed:

Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Brightfame52]

I am sorry there was no poll associated with this interesting thread. If there was a poll, my answer would be a strong no, natural man never seeks God on his own.

The reason why man doesnt seek the True God is because by nature he is dead to God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

This is what Paul believed:

Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This was not just Paul's personal opinion. He was quoting directly from two Psalms (nos. 14 and 53) which, curiously, are identical to each other. They are the only identical psalms in the entire psalter. I don't think that was a mistake. God definitely wanted folks to know this truth.

 

[BBAS 64]

The reason why man doesnt seek the True God is because by nature he is dead to God.

Good Day, BrightFame

Agreed!

Also God is light and man hates light, and loves darkness.

Expecting Man to seek that what he hates is like expecting a Lion to eat grass.

Man loves Darkness because he "is" darkness and he needs some external force to change that reality.
There is nothing with in man that would cause, create desire, or motivate Him to hate the darkness he loves, and love the light he hates.

But God...

In Him,

Bill

 

[RDKirk]

This was not just Paul's personal opinion. He was quoting directly from two Psalms (nos. 14 and 53) which, curiously, are identical to each other. They are the only identical psalms in the entire psalter. I don't think that was a mistake. God definitely wanted folks to know this truth.

As explained by Joseph to the Pharoah, when God says something twice (two witnesses)...He means it.

 

[Brightfame52]

This was not just Paul's personal opinion. He was quoting directly from two Psalms (nos. 14 and 53) which, curiously, are identical to each other. They are the only identical psalms in the entire psalter. I don't think that was a mistake. God definitely wanted folks to know this truth.

Its the Truth !

 

[Brightfame52]

Good Day, BrightFame

Agreed!

Also God is light and man hates light, and loves darkness.

Expecting Man to seek that what he hates is like expecting a Lion to eat grass.

Man loves Darkness because he "is" darkness and he needs some external force to change that reality.
There is nothing with in man that would cause, create desire, or motivate Him to hate the darkness he loves, and love the light he hates.

But God...

In Him,

Bill

Man needs to be born again friend, Jesus said it loud and clear. Prior to New Spiritual Birth, man is dead to God, the True God that is, for man naturally is very religious and alive to the false gods of his darkened imagination.

 

[AbbaLove]

Man needs to be born again friend, Jesus said it loud and clear. Prior to New Spiritual Birth, man is dead to God, the True God that is, for man naturally is very religious and alive to the false gods of his darkened imagination.

Was not the basis for God's "justification" (righteousness) also attainable by Job, Noah, Abraham and others before the NT/New Covenant ?

Romans 3:11-12 is referring to one's anti-relationahip with God before/prior to a truly born again Spiritual conversion (Matthew 5:48 - "be perfect as He is perfect"). Paul's conversion was the result of what some might refer to as: Calvinism and Arminianism .(a combination of both).

Was not God's measure of righteousness, even that of Rahab (James 2:25, Hebrews 11:31), due more to what some refer to as God's define intervention than one's own self will (Arminianism)?

 

[Brightfame52]

Was not the basis for God's "justification" (righteousness) also attainable by Job, Noah, Abraham and others before the NT/New Covenant ?

Romans 3:11-12 is referring to one's anti-relationahip with God before/prior to a truly born again Spiritual conversion (Matthew 5:48 - "be perfect as He is perfect"). Paul's conversion was the result of what some might refer to as: Calvinism and Arminianism .(a combination of both).

Was not God's measure of righteousness, even that of Rahab (James 2:25, Hebrews 11:31), due more to what some refer to as God's define intervention than one's own self will (Arminianism)?

God has always had a remnant according to the election of grace since the beginning of world history, but that changes not the fact that men by nature are dead to God. See when Adam sinned against God, it caused many to be dead [to God] Rom 5:15


But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one[Adam] many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

So in that dead state we have no ability, no desire for the True God Rom 3:10-12 that goes for Noah, Abraham, Rahab and so forth !

 

[bbbbbbb]

Was not the basis for God's "justification" (righteousness) also attainable by Job, Noah, Abraham and others before the NT/New Covenant ?

Romans 3:11-12 is referring to one's anti-relationahip with God before/prior to a truly born again Spiritual conversion (Matthew 5:48 - "be perfect as He is perfect"). Paul's conversion was the result of what some might refer to as: Calvinism and Arminianism .(a combination of both).

Was not God's measure of righteousness, even that of Rahab (James 2:25, Hebrews 11:31), due more to what some refer to as God's define intervention than one's own self will (Arminianism)?

One interesting aspect with Noah in particular is that the text says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God. We know that Noah was not a righteous man (e. g. his serious sin after the Flood). He was just as deserving of destruction as the rest of humanity, but God chose him and gave him the grace necessary to build the ark so that life might be saved in the midst of total destruction.

There is no doubt that all of the saints in the Old Testament were sinners. Even the greatest such as Abraham and David, were guilty of vile sin. Yet, God showed grace to them and saved them through faith.

 

[zoidar]

One interesting aspect with Noah in particular is that the text says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God. We know that Noah was not a righteous man (e. g. his serious sin after the Flood). He was just as deserving of destruction as the rest of humanity, but God chose him and gave him the grace necessary to build the ark so that life might be saved in the midst of total destruction.

There is no doubt that all of the saints in the Old Testament were sinners. Even the greatest such as Abraham and David, were guilty of vile sin. Yet, God showed grace to them and saved them through faith.

Hm, the text says Noah was a righteous man.

These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
— Genesis 6:9

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hm, the text says Noah was a righteous man.

These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
— Genesis 6:9

Did Noah sin? I think that "righteous" in this context is a relative term. He was not absolutely and completely righteous. However, he was certainly more righteous than most, if not all, of the other inhabitants of the earth.

 

[Doug Brents]

Did Noah sin? I think that "righteous" in this context is a relative term. He was not absolutely and completely righteous. However, he was certainly more righteous than most, if not all, of the other inhabitants of the earth.

Noah walked with God: he sought God, and he continually tried to obey God. There are none who have ever lived sinlessly, but Noah was declared righteous, as we who are save are, by God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Noah walked with God: he sought God, and he continually tried to obey God. There are none who have ever lived sinlessly, but Noah was declared righteous, as we who are save are, by God.

God showed grace to Noah. Was it because Noah was such a nice guy?

 

[John Mullally]

God showed grace to Noah. Was it because Noah was such a nice guy?

Throughout Scriptures, we see examples of God “finding favor” in believing individuals (Noah, Job, Enoch, Abram, etc.), but these men, like all of humanity, still fell short of God’s glory and were unrighteous according to the demands of God’s law. They needed a savior. They needed redemption and reconciliation. Even those who believe the truth of God’s revelation deserves eternal punishment for their sin.

The fact that no one is righteous according to the law does NOT prevent people from believing God’s revealed truth so as to be credited as righteous by God’s grace.

Correct me if I am wrong: Looking back, this winds up being pretty much what you said in Post 499.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Throughout Scriptures, we see examples of God “finding favor” in believing individuals (Noah, Job, Enoch, Abram, etc.), but these men, like all of humanity, still fell short of God’s glory and were unrighteous according to the demands of God’s law. They needed a savior. They needed redemption and reconciliation. Even those who believe the truth of God’s revelation deserves eternal punishment for their sin.

The fact that no one is righteous according to the law does NOT prevent people from believing God’s revealed truth so as to be credited as righteous by God’s grace.

Correct me if I am wrong: Looking back, this winds up being pretty much what you said in Post 499.

I am not in the least bit sure that Noah had the slightest idea of a savior.