Born This Way

[CoreyD]

"We are born this way. Therefore, it cannot be wrong."
Have you heard that before? Does the logic follow?

"We are born this way. Therefore, nothing is wrong with us. It's perfectly normal."

Spoiler

Normal
Anophthalmia
Müllerian agenesis

Hence, this must be wrong.
Treatments - Cosmetic surgery
Treatment - Lab-grown vagina
_

Does that logic follow?

 

[Unqualified]

God doesn’t create people to go to hell.

 

[Soyeong]

"We are born this way. Therefore, it cannot be wrong."
Have you heard that before? Does the logic follow?

"We are born this way. Therefore, nothing is wrong with us. It's perfectly normal."

Spoiler

Normal
Anophthalmia
Müllerian agenesis

Hence, this must be wrong.
Treatments - Cosmetic surgery
Treatment - Lab-grown vagina
_

Does that logic follow?

We were born this way, therefore we should act like babies?

 

[CoreyD]

God doesn’t create people to go to hell.

I agree. Adam and Eve were created to live. Not die.
However, since all mankind were born alien to God - Ephesians 4:18, because of being born in sin - Romans 5:12, we all are born with defects - Psalm 51:5, and we all die.
Do you think God created people with sin and defects?

The Bible says, God "made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth".
So, rather than God creating each and every one of us, we were made - that is, we came to exist, through the gift of procreation, which God created in Adam.
That's true, isn't it?

So, God did not create gays. Nor did God create disabled people. Nor sick people.
Jesus, demonstrated this, and even taught it, when he was on earth.
John 9:1-3; John 11:4

 

[Unqualified]

At least your admitting it’s sin. But it has to be repented of if you want to go to heaven.or be a part of the church.

 

[CoreyD]

At least your admitting it’s sin. But it has to be repented of if you want to go to heaven.or be a part of the church.

You missed the point of the OP.

 

[benadamm]

"We are born this way. Therefore, it cannot be wrong."
Have you heard that before? Does the logic follow?

"We are born this way. Therefore, nothing is wrong with us. It's perfectly normal."

Spoiler

Normal
Anophthalmia
Müllerian agenesis

Hence, this must be wrong.
Treatments - Cosmetic surgery
Treatment - Lab-grown vagina
_

Does that logic follow?

No. It's a logical fallacy. Humans must be born perfect for it to be logical.

 

[FireDragon76]

No. It's a logical fallacy. Humans must be born perfect for it to be logical.

Moral responsibility usually is assumed to entail the freedom to choose. That's basic to Christian moral theology. If a person was born that way, then applying moral categories to it is misguided.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"We are born this way. Therefore, it cannot be wrong."
Have you heard that before? Does the logic follow?

"We are born this way. Therefore, nothing is wrong with us. It's perfectly normal."

Spoiler

Normal
Anophthalmia
Müllerian agenesis

Hence, this must be wrong.
Treatments - Cosmetic surgery
Treatment - Lab-grown vagina
_

Does that logic follow?

Everyone sins based on what they're born with, so everyone needs to repent.

 

[CoreyD]

Everyone sins based on what they're born with, so everyone needs to repent.

I believe you meant, everyone sins - is born a sinner - regardless of what they are born with. I can agree with that. Psalms 51:5

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I believe you meant, everyone sins - is born a sinner - regardless of what they are born with. I can agree with that. Psalms 51:5

I was also referring to how God does not show favoritism. (Acts 10:34-25, Romans 2:11, Matthew 5:28)

 

[Unqualified]

You missed the point of the OP.

I don’t know if it’s logical. But that’s what gay people say. To them it follows, but to the Christian mind it’s not true. Maybe they studied logic. I didn’t. But Jesus said and did Gods will. I think these people just want to have sex. So now the gov, let’s marriage. But it’s still not right. You cannot have God and such a sin too. Because of what He said. Repentance is the way to God. If they want to be justified they are not going to get it from God without it and they can change. If I say I was born a fornicator, I had to change I had to repent to win Christ.

 

[CoreyD]

I was also referring to how God does not show favoritism. (Acts 10:34-25, Romans 2:11, Matthew 5:28)

By that, I guess you are saying, God does not show partiality by exempting persons from repentance, despite what they are born with.
I agree. Showing compassion and consideration for individuals would not be showing partiality, though.

For example, if someone has a brain disorder, that prevents them thinking, so as to make an informed decision, though God does not tolerate the deeds, he does consider their inability.
I think we see this, on the occasion when Jesus healed the demon possessed man that cut himself with stones. Mark 5:1-10

Since we need our brain to think, and make proper choices, that's the only thing that will prevent us from being able to "help ourselves".
A person that has drunk to being "blind drunk" can relate to that.

 

[benadamm]

Moral responsibility usually is assumed to entail the freedom to choose. That's basic to Christian moral theology. If a person was born that way, then applying moral categories to it is misguided.

That doesn't change the act. Many think adultery is more immoral than masturbation. But adultery is more like marriage. Masturbation is more grave a sin. It is further away from the proper use of the sexual faculties.
Habits and compulsion limit it as a free act and so it reduces culpability. Adultery is an act of knowledge and freedom of it's sinfulness. So it's more likely to be mortal than masturbation even though masturbation is more grave.

 

[CoreyD]

I don’t know if it’s logical. But that’s what gay people say. To them it follows, but to the Christian mind it’s not true. Maybe they studied logic. I didn’t. But Jesus said and did Gods will. I think these people just want to have sex. So now the gov, let’s marriage. But it’s still not right. You cannot have God and such a sin too. Because of what He said. Repentance is the way to God. If they want to be justified they are not going to get it from God without it and they can change. If I say I was born a fornicator, I had to change I had to repent to win Christ.

We can't be sure of how persons who are gay feel.
Some may genuinely feel the way they do, for various reasons.
So, it may take time for some to appreciate what goes against their feelings.
Making decisions on some things in this life, can be quite hard.

However, just as a person is willing to have something they were born with, removed or corrected (e.g. cleft lip, or hole in the heart), a person who really desires to serve God, appreciates spiritual surgery.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

By that, I guess you are saying, God does not show partiality by exempting persons from repentance, despite what they are born with.
I agree. Showing compassion and consideration for individuals would not be showing partiality, though.

For example, if someone has a brain disorder, that prevents them thinking, so as to make an informed decision, though God does not tolerate the deeds, he does consider their inability.
I think we see this, on the occasion when Jesus healed the demon possessed man that cut himself with stones. Mark 5:1-10

Since we need our brain to think, and make proper choices, that's the only thing that will prevent us from being able to "help ourselves".
A person that has drunk to being "blind drunk" can relate to that.

Compassion is indeed important, but being consistent is important also.

I have attended gay friendly worship spaces before. It is common to notice a blind spot towards LGB issues, but Heterosexuality is treated the same as regular churches. There is also a mantra of inclusivity etc.

The language of inclusivity can apparently only apply to a small group regardless of congregation. So consistency is difficult to obtain.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That doesn't change the act. Many think adultery is more immoral than masturbation. But adultery is more like marriage. Masturbation is more grave a sin. It is further away from the proper use of the sexual faculties.
Habits and compulsion limit it as a free act and so it reduces culpability. Adultery is an act of knowledge and freedom of it's sinfulness. So it's more likely to be mortal than masturbation even though masturbation is more grave.

The Rev. Tony Campolo once remarked, "I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a bleep. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said bleep than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

The Rev. Tony Campolo once remarked, "I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a bleep. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said bleep than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."

-CryptoLutheran

Strain gnat, swallow camel.

 

[benadamm]

Oh no, casting doubt on a questionable legal theory. Literally the worst thing one could possibly do.

I don't recall the article questioning the contract.

Not playing along with the talking points is different from being evasive. Sometimes responses are going to come up with ideas different than imagined when the talking points are created. Being able to respond to those (or not) is a sign that the original idea had merit. Or not.

Not if the debate is a sincere exchange of ideas.

some cases, yes. For example, a business who is "scandalize"d by being associated with interracial marriages would still be legally bound by anti-discrimination laws prohibiting making hiring decisions based on race.

Race involves real communities and discrimination based on appearance not behaviors kept private for millenia.

Weird claim, given the OP talks about the result of a federal court answering that question. Seems to run counter to reality, actually.

N

Hmm, accusing others of "preparation for a smear" and then in the same post making up fake motivations about them. Projection, perhaps?

I'm well aware of projection. I'm not doing that. It's a real thing. A fake psychological term without a pathology is 'homophobia'.

 

[stevevw]

"We are born this way. Therefore, it cannot be wrong."
Have you heard that before? Does the logic follow?

"We are born this way. Therefore, nothing is wrong with us. It's perfectly normal."

Spoiler

Normal
Anophthalmia
Müllerian agenesis

Hence, this must be wrong.
Treatments - Cosmetic surgery
Treatment - Lab-grown vagina
_

Does that logic follow?

I think its all part of Postmodernist thinking where objective reality, nature and any truth is denied as a social construction and the only reality is self referential truths. In other words the only reality is sefl feelings, experiences and identity to be worshipped.

We have moved from a collective belief and identity to radical individualism where everyone can be a special star, can express themselves how ever they want regardless of others. So humans come in all different identities and they cannot help but be who they feel they are. Someone should make a song out of that. Oh thats right lady Gaga already has.