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Same-sex marriage grounds for firing Catholic school’s guidance counselor, appeals court says

HARK!

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I wasn't aware your OP was a question I needed to answer.


Good call. These are the questions that you failed to answer:

In what alternate universe is a homosexual guidance counselor qualified to counsel Catholic children to abstain from homosexuality?

What possible motive might a homosexual have for holding such a position?

It's easy to identify the questions with this secret little trick. They have a curly little punctuation mark after the question.
 
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essentialsaltes

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In what alternate universe is a homosexual guidance counselor qualified to counsel Catholic children to abstain from homosexuality?
That's not really what guidance counselers (of any kind) do. They give you tests that show that you'd be happy as a bricklayer or accountant, and help you get into college.
 
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Valletta

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Au contraire, mon frere.

"The ministerial exception, sometimes known as the "ecclesiastical exception," is a legal doctrine in the United States"

That wouldn't even be necessary for them to pretend. The ruling I mention above shows that Catholic schools can hire non-Catholics, and yet still regard them as 'ministers'.

Again, the only reason the school is allowed to do this is because the courts have now decided that teachers (and now guidance counselors) are 'ministers'. At least until it is tested, this school could not fire a gardener or accountant for being in a SSM.
Incorrect. As I said, minsterial exception is not a law. This legal doctrine is derived from the U.S. Constitution. As to "minister," I think your confusion comes from relating this to a religious minister. It has a different legal meaning.
 
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HARK!

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That's not really what guidance counselers (of any kind) do. They give you tests that show that you'd be happy as a bricklayer or accountant, and help you get into college.
You're mistaken. This is the first job description that popped up in a quick web search:

Guidance Counselor duties and responsibilities

There are several essential duties and responsibilities a Guidance Counselor must fulfill in order to do the job correctly. Advising students on academic matters is just the beginning and can lead to long-term personal relationships with students and their parents. Here are the most important duties and responsibilities:

Oversee and fulfill a guidance program designed to allow students to voice concerns without fear of punishment or judgment.
Analyze student performance in class and identify sources of problems.
Get to know students and their unique needs to offer specialized solutions.
Help students develop a plan for their academic career that corresponds with their skills and interests.
Host crisis intervention and prevention programs.
Facilitate communication between parents, Teachers, administrators and students about behavior and academic problems.
Assist with school programs and events.

 
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stevil

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The No True Scotsman fallacy?

Really?

This is pure rubbish. Many proper business do background checks, and even invasive drug testing on their employees. Many also require submission to polygraphs.

Marriage certificates are a matter of public record.

Any school that doesn't do background checks on those who will be alone with children, don't deserve to be trusted with children.

It's wise for employees to keep their private matters private; but marriage is not a private matter.
There is a big difference between people with crimiinal records or those that might be drug addicts and thus present a danger at work, vs whether a person is living as a couple in an unmarried situation. Unmarried people arent' dangerous.
 
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KCfromNC

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Formal infiltration is an absurdity but exploitable opportunities are another matter. This is cultural warfare and I believe the old American concept of religious rights is being eroded.
An alternative view is that the the idea of religious rights is being expanded to run roughshod over other peoples' rights. What was once the idea that people could believe and worship as they choose is turning into the idea that believing really really hard is an excuse to ignore any other law.

That's been tried before. It ends badly.
 
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KCfromNC

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It sounds like the position of guidance counselor at a Catholic school requires a Catholic in good standing to fill. Perhaps they should put that in the job requirements beforehand.
But if they have to be explicit which minorities they're going to stick it to beforehand, what happens when the far right picks another minority to try and demonize next week? Then they won't be able to get on board to score cheap political points with low information voters. And no one wants to be left behind like that, totally unfair.
 
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HARK!

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There is a big difference between people with crimiinal records or those that might be drug addicts and thus present a danger at work, vs whether a person is living as a couple in an unmarried situation. Unmarried people arent' dangerous.
Fornication is dangerous; but that's not the issue here. This homosexual was married,
 
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HARK!

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But if they have to be explicit which minorities they're going to stick it to beforehand, what happens when the far right picks another minority to try and demonize next week? Then they won't be able to get on board to score cheap political points with low information voters. And no one wants to be left behind like that, totally unfair.
Maybe you didn't get the memo:

same-sex marriage violated the school’s employment contract
 
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KCfromNC

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Maybe you didn't get the memo:
And yet they hired this employee. If the company doesn't even know what their rules are, why are employees held to a higher standard?

Not to mention the issue of an employer thinking that it would be legal to restrict freedom of association of their employees outside of work. Don't they care about the 1st amendment?
 
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HARK!

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And yet they hired this employee. If the company doesn't even know what their rules are, why are employees held to a higher standard?

Not to mention the issue of an employer thinking that it would be legal to restrict freedom of association of their employees outside of work. Don't they care about the 1st amendment?
You might try reading the article.
 
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BPPLEE

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Yeah, no kidding. What did he expect, to be treated equally or something?
He should probably stop being so uppity.
He was treated equally just like anyone else that doesn’t abide by the agreement they made
 
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Valletta

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Fine, we are at cross purposes. We both agree it is 'the' law.
It's something the courts derived from the Constitution. And my point is that freedom to practice your religion is central. We already have an office of the FBI zeroing in on Catholics as domestic terrorists. The state should stay out of Catholic religion. If someone signs a contract agreeing to abide by some basic Catholic standards at a Catholic school the state should not be able to come in and void the contract because it fits with their woke agenda or any other agenda.
 
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Belk

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A company can fire you for social media posts. If I’m posting that abortion is murder I don’t think Planned Parenthood would keep me on as a counselor
That depends on the hiring contract. It also depends on if it is a "right to work" state. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer here. I do note, though, which side is concocting negative ideas the "other side" is supposedly engaged in. I don't suppose it ever occurred that a gay Catholic might simply see the church's stance as incorrect?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Good call. These are the questions that you failed to answer:
Your questions weren't relevant to you inquisition about my use of the pronoun "we". Also I thought they were rather ugly and I don't want to dwell in your conceptual pit.
It's easy to identify the questions with this secret little trick. They have a curly little punctuation mark after the question.
 
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