Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[Gary K]

I thought this was interesting. Those who keep the Sabbath according to Isaiah 58 would expect to be fed with food from the land of Israel. To me, that shows again the regional/national nature of the commandment.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:14 - New Century Version

Then you will find joy in the LORD, and I will carry you to the high places above the earth. I will let you eat the crops of the land your ancestor Jacob had.” The LORD has said these things.

www.biblegateway.com

Huh?

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

This is speaking not of temporal food, but of spiritual blessings as this entire chapter is about spiritual issues. You ripped the instructions on how to keep the Sabbath right out of the context they were said in.

 

[Leaf473]

Huh?


This is speaking not of temporal food, but of spiritual blessings as this entire chapter is about spiritual issues. You ripped the instructions on how to keep the Sabbath right out of the context they were said in.

That's cool If the Sabbath is a spiritual issue, then it makes sense to keep it spiritually

 

[Gary K]

The way I look at it that should be a daily thing. I don't like the idea of being less holy the rest of the week. Or giving God less time the rest of the week. The Apostles and disciples fellowshipped and worshipped on a daily basis Acts 2:46-47

The only way to fix that is to get into working directly for God as in some type of self supporting ministry. A lot of SDAs do that.

 

[ozso]

The only way to fix that is to get into working directly for God as in some type of self supporting ministry. A lot of SDAs do that.

That's the ordinary labor aspect of it. The worship, fellowship, teaching, learning aspect of it was a daily event in the early church.

 

[Gary K]

That's the ordinary labor aspect of it. The worship, fellowship, teaching, learning aspect of it was a daily event in the early church.

And what you listed applies to self supporting work. It's not like working for a large church organization like a denominational conference which has all kinds of layers of bureaucracy.

 

[ozso]

And what you listed applies to self supporting work. It's not like working for a large church organization like a denominational conference which has all kinds of layers of bureaucracy.

I'm not sure where you're going with that. They congregated ie had church daily. Catholics still do that. There are many who attend regular church services daily. There are times when I've been to church several days a week. Tuesday evening fellowship bible study, wednesday evening fellowship bible study, thursday evening fellowship bible college, saturday morning fellowship bible study. And also home fellowship bible studies on any given evening.

 

[trophy33]

God is the authority, I was showing you an example of how people look for ways to obey God rather than shrugging it off.

Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servant
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

We do not live in ancient Israel and therefore according to their rules.

Why is Isaiah more authoritative than the New Testament?

"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law...
So the law was our guardian until Christ came...
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."
Gal 3:23-25

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col 2:16

 

[trophy33]

He just wants to spend time with His people on the day He sanctified to do so.

What? Was Jesus with his disciples only on Sabbaths? Or do you have the Holy Spirit only on Sabbaths?

He wants us to walk with Him every day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We do not live in ancient Israel and therefore according to their rules.

True. But God only made a covenant with the house of Israel Hebrews 8:10 Jer 31:33 so instead of being locked out of God’s covenant promise He grafts us in through our faith. Gal 3:26-28

Why is Isaiah more authoritative than the New Testament?

All of the Bible is God’s Word so we should not pit scriptures against scriptures. Isaiah is a prophetic book with many applications for today including Isaiah 56

"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law...
So the law was our guardian until Christ came...
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

Faith is a big word, not a small one. Someone who has faith in Jesus is going to not only believe His teachings, but will do them without having to understand why, or ask does it make sense to me. That is what faith is about Hebrews 11:1 We are told to be followers of Christ and He died not only to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 which is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 4:4 Romans 7:7 but He showed us the perfect way to live. 1 John 2:6 who kept all of His Fathers commandments and did His will as should we. Matthew 7:21-23, John 6:38 John 15:10

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col 2:16

This has been addressed many times Post in thread 'Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"'
Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"
and if one would to look at the context could easily see it is not one of God’s eternal Ten Commandments that is being referred to. Jesus said not to break the least of the commandments quoting from the Ten Matthew 5:19-30 and Paul is not contradicting God in this passage, nor does it have the authority to reverse something God blessed Num 23:20

 

[trophy33]

True. But God only made a covenant with the house of Israel Hebrews 8:10 Jer 31:33 so instead of being locked out of God’s covenant promise He grafts us in through our faith. Gal 3:26-28

He made a new covenant, open to everybody who believes. The new, true Jews are not the old ones, but the ones with new heart.

New covenant, new people, new rules.

All of the Bible is God’s Word so we should not pit scriptures against scriptures. Isaiah is a prophetic book with many applications for today including Isaiah 56

Obsolete. New covenant, new rules.

This has been addressed many times

As were the verses you use again and again.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He made a new covenant, open to everybody who believes. The new, true Jews are not the old ones, but the ones with new heart.

New covenant, new people, new rules.


Obsolete. New covenant, new rules.


As were the verses you use again and again.

The issue with the Old Covenant was not with the laws- God’s law is perfect Psalms 19:7 the issue was with the people Hebrews 8:8.

A covenant means agreement. The law of God was not the issue, it was the the agreement- the people said ”we will do” was the old covenant, in the new covenant God does He writes His laws (the law of God) on the hearts and minds of His people, instead of deleting them. We just need to cooperate.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

We don’t have to be a Jew to be part of God’s covenant promise and we keep God’s law through our love to Him and faith. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

 

[Leaf473]

This brings the discussion back to which laws are God's laws, which no one is able to say. Well, except for @Gary K, but he says it's just the Ten Commandments, if I understand him right

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What? Was Jesus with his disciples only on Sabbaths? Or do you have the Holy Spirit only on Sabbaths?

He wants us to walk with Him every day.

You making an argument no one is making. Should we praise and worship God daily, of course we should. Should we pray, read God’s word and follow God daily, of course. Being obedient to God in all that He asks is a form of worship. Sabbath is more than reading a scripture here or prayer there it is a full day dedicated to God doing His ways and the day to honor Him on God’s holy day Isaiah 58:13 the day God sanctified, blessed and made holy because we cannot sanctify ourselves, only God can. Eze 20:12. God commands us to do all our works and labors on the other 6 days Exodus 20:9 and if we kept every day like we are to keep the Sabbath, no work would get done.

 

[trophy33]

The issue with the Old Covenant was not with the laws- God’s law is perfect Psalms 19:7 the issue was with the people Hebrews 8:8.

A covenant means agreement. The law of God was not the issue, it was the the agreement- the people said ”we will do” was the old covenant, in the new covenant God does He writes His laws (the law of God) on the hearts and minds of His people, instead of deleting them. We just need to cooperate.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

We don’t have to be a Jew to be part of God’s covenant promise and we keep God’s law through our love to Him and faith. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

Keeping of specific days is not written on our hearts, so you will not make a solid argument, there.

 

[trophy33]

You making an argument no one is making. Should we praise and worship God daily, of course we should. Should we pray, read God’s word and follow God daily, of course. Being obedient to God in all that He asks is a form of worship. Sabbath is more than reading a scripture here or prayer there it is a full day dedicated to God doing His ways and the day to honor Him on God’s holy day Isaiah 58:13 the day God sanctified, blessed and made holy because we cannot sanctify ourselves, only God can. Eze 20:12. God commands us to do all our works and labors on the other 6 days Exodus 20:9 and if we kept every day like we are to keep the Sabbath, no work would get done.

Everything spiritual you say about Sabbath is something Christians can do every day.

And resting from physical work on specific day was just a shadow.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Everything spiritual you say about Sabbath is something Christians can do every day.

You missed the whole point.

And resting from physical work on specific day was just a shadow.

This is mans opinion, not God’s. I follow God and Jesus warns us to not follow mans ways over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Keeping of specific days is not written on our hearts, so you will not make a solid argument, there.

It was written in the apostles hearts, which every Sabbath was kept by them and Jesus. We follow Christ, not man. 1 John 2:6

Which is why the Holy Spirit call us….

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,

 

[Leaf473]

Keeping of specific days is not written on our hearts, so you will not make a solid argument, there.

And we don't need someone to tell us what's written on our hearts.

The idea that the vast majority of devout Christians throughout many centuries didn't know about the laws of God doesn't hold up.

 

[Leaf473]

There's this idea that one group of people needs to tell another group of people what's written on the other group's hearts.

 

[trophy33]

You missed the whole point.

I do not think so. The whole point of the new covenant is that we are the temple, we are the priests, we are with God always.

This is mans opinion, not God’s.

The whole Bible was written by men. But I suppose you accept they were theologically inspired.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col 2:16