SCOTUS Strikes Down Affirmative Action

[JustOneWay]

Don't forget "Sports Programs" admission, the merit on how well you can catch a football or shoot a basket?

Don't tell me. I am against that too.

 

[JustOneWay]

How so do you too believe that college admission should be based solely on merits.

Money merits, obviously.... Teachers don't teach for free.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Fact is, if your poor and don't achieve a scholarship or financial assistance, it's community College and a nightime job

Community college is not entirely bad, in fact it can be a great way to cover your basic classes (things that would apply to just about any major).

 

[Truth7t7]

Don't tell me. I am against that too.

That could be considered racist, because the majority of players in football and basketball programs are minority blacks?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Money merits, obviously.... Teachers don't teach for free.

no they do not, but there are programs, grants scholarships to help with the money aspect of college.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not many $Billionaires$ end up in prison these days, smiles!

Most of the time buying your way out of trouble is bad and unfair, BUT there are times when people are falsely accused or overcharged where money does in fact get them off or give them a more just sentence that actually fits the offense.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Don't forget "Sports Programs" admission, the merit on how well you can catch a football or shoot a basket?

yes, in sports programs those are the merits in question Although most programs/colleges also require that you maintain a certain GPA.

 

[JustOneWay]

no they do not, but there are programs, grants scholarships to help with the money aspect of college.

That's discrimination against the rich who can afford to pay! Where are their freebies?

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's discrimination against the rich who can afford to pay! Where are their freebies?

If you can pay you do not need assistance. That IS part of equality is making sure that people who meet other requirements can take part in programs.

 

[Truth7t7]

yes, in sports programs those are the merits in question Although most programs/colleges also require that you maintain a certain GPA.

There have been many star athletes that could barely read or write that have and will be admitted into universities, GPA is something that can always be $overlooked$ or $fixed$

 

[dogs4thewin]

There have been many star athletes that could barely read or write that have and will be admitted into universities, GPA is something that can always be $overlooked$ or $fixed$

and if they fail to maintain that GPA then they will be kicked off the team and if it is bad enough for long enough be dismissed frim the school completely.

 

[Truth7t7]

and if they fail to maintain that GPA then they will be kicked off the team and if it is bad enough for long enough be dismissed frim the school completely.

Perhaps you should research "Chancellor Exceptions" that is used in many colleges for athletes, your blanket statement above could be wrong?

 

[RDKirk]

What we are seeing time and time again is the Supreme Court of the United States does not care what is best for the American people if it is dominated by conservative justices. Affirmative action is the only way thousands of black and brown students can get into 4-year colleges. What the Supreme Court wants to do is go back to the bad old days when 100% of college students were rich white men.

No, I do not believe high school students should be accepted at colleges just because they are black or brown. But this racist ruling means they lost their chances at equal opportunities because of systemic racial discrimination in lower education, housing, child care, and employment. To make sure everyone has an equal opportunity of going to college, we first need to solve the problems that forced Congress to make affirmative actions laws in the 1960s.

What forced Congress to make affirmative action laws in the 1960s was blatant racism.

General Motors refused to sell Cadillacs to black people regardless of the fact that many black people had the money to pay for the car in cash. They simply didn't want that car to be associated with black people.

Up until the Civil Rights Act, colleges looked at superior black students and said, "We don't care how superior you are, we don't want our establishment identified with Negroes." Grades were not the stumbling block. Money was not even the stumbling block. Skin color was the stumbling block.

I don't think that particular thing is the issue today...at least it's very greatly diminished and is continuing to diminish.

What is still a substantial problem--I'd argue a worse problem today--that so many black kids are not being graduated from high school with sufficient education to meet basic requirements for college entrance. We can label it "systemic" the same way we can label the effects in the body of alcohol or narcotics use "systemic." Yeah, using narcotics will cause "systemic" problems in the body. But using narcotics is a choice.

If we graph the problems black people encounter in our lives, we find some things greatly improved since the Civil Rights Act, but some things have gotten much worse. And we must face the fact that the very things that have gotten worse...are volitional. They are the result of choices we made. Most often, those were choices that seemed rational at the time.

But, "Man is not a rational animal, man is a rationalizing animal."

Have you seen the movie "Hidden Figures?" That movie has one of the rare media depictions of the black culture for which Affirmative Action was designed...people held back for no reason other than the color of their skin.

 

[RDKirk]

Many provisions in the Constitution are what is best for the American people. One of them is the Equal Protection clause in the 14th Amendment. Is affirmative action not equal protection?

The 14th amendment guarantees equal protection from government actions, just as the 1st amendment protects speech from government actions.

 

[RDKirk]

Let us use the example of Harvard where whites consitute less than 40% of the student body.
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What is the racial makeup of Harvard?


As of Fall 2020, the ethnic breakdown of Harvard undergraduates is approximately 39.6% White, 27.5% Asian, 10.8% Hispanic/Latino, 9.3% African American, 2.2% Native American/Alaskan Native/Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander, and 10.6% mixed-race or unknown (Data acquired from the Harvard College).May 4, 2023
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IMO, the issue is NOT that colleges are not forced to take enough black students. Colleges are very mixed in most parts of the country. The issue is that colleges are for the RICH. Many, many of the black students are Harvard are from rich families. Having quotas that favor Barrack's and Michelle's students is NOT the answer.

If colleges were biased in favor of admitting poor students (especially poor urban students) and giving them scholarships, the result would be a HIGHER percentage of blacks. Obviously, removing the almost automatic admission of legacy students would be a step forward.
=====================

I don't know what the percentage of legacy students actually is to make an assertion that is a substantial part of the problem at all. At any rate, becoming "legacy" is as applicable to the children of former black students as it is of former white students.

And I've seen information that financial assistance is more available in some respects at Ivy League universities than at lesser universities. I do know that my children would have had an easier time getting financial help if we had made a lot less money.

Getting the money to go to college isn't the problem for black people today...the government and banks are more than happy to make them debt slaves for life. And I don't think there is the blatant racial barrier--despite having sufficient educational preparation and sufficient income--to being admitted to college as there was before the Civil Rights Act.

 

[JustOneWay]

If you can pay you do not need assistance. That IS part of equality is making sure that people who meet other requirements can take part in programs.

That is still discrimination. There is no equality, and if one cannot pay one cannot play. That is the conservative way.

 

[RDKirk]

Any decision that prevents Americans who deserve to go to college and get living wage jobs obviously is racist.

"Living wage jobs" are not dependent on a bachelor's degree. Let's not pretend that good technical training can't also provide good living wage jobs.

I have a bachelor's degree, but neither of my two careers nor the pensions I currently enjoy from that second career had anything to do with anything I learned in college...they are the result of technical qualifications and certifications I acquired outside the university.

 

[RDKirk]

If the Supreme Court wants people to get in based on merit, now they need to ban legacy admissions.

How big a problem is that, though, really? What is the percentage?

And if the children of current students become legacy students and their children are legacy students, how is that a problem with regard to the racial balance?

 

[RDKirk]

That could be considered racist, because the majority of players in football and basketball programs are minority blacks?

That's simple to repair. White people across the nation simply need to support tennis, swimming, and golf as much as they support football and basketball.

Edit: That's kind of like women complaining about discrimination of wages in women's professional sports. The simple answer: Women need to start patronizing women's sports. There are more men patronizing women's sports--there are more men in the bleachers--than there are women.

 

[JustOneWay]

How big a problem is that, though, really? What is the percentage?

And if the children of current students become legacy students and their children are legacy students, how is that a problem with regard to the racial balance?

It is discrimination against everybody who is not a legacy and is not merit based, as simple as that.