Theistic Evolution - When did soul and spirit come in?

[Kale100]

Thread title should be self explanatory. What was the first creature(s) to have a soul and to have a spirit? Were soul and spirit imbued at the same time or different times? When and where did each take place? What evidence leads you to your answer? Interested in hearing what people think about this. I'm sure this isn't an exhaustive list, but here's a few maybe starting points off the top of my head.
1) The first living thing
2) Complex lifeforms with brains and such
3) Do dogs go to heaven? (e.g. sometime in the evolution of mammals)
4) Primates
5) Early humans (Homo erectus or thereabouts)
6) The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)
7) Some other time?

Notice: This posting originally only asked about the soul, and was modified to include spirit when it was explained to me that they are not the same thing.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I wonder if we are confusing the soul and the spirit. There seems to be a number of scriptures that indicate there is a difference. They are separate things. We are a soul that has a spirit and lives in a body.
Since you are asking this in the area that includes theistic evolution, allow me to respond from my TE point of view.
I believe that man originally descended from the beasts of the field that the earth brought forth as commanded by God on day six.
On day six He commanded the earth to bring forth living creatures.
The earth began to do just that... bring forth living creatures. As we see evolution occurring, I propose that primitive man evolved on the earth. God saw these creatures that evolved from the living creatures and decided to improve upon them and "evolve" them up to a more advanced being that came to be known as man. All this happened on the 6th day. Obviously not a 24 hour day as some think. I call them "earth man" as opposed to "spirit man" which is what God created from the dust of the earth in the Garden of Eden. The earth men had a soul, but no spirit. They were just very advanced animals that could think, feel, and have intelligence that surpassed all other creatures. So I see that after God improved the earth man, He then created a new kind of man, that is Adam and Eve. These men would have a living spirit breathed into them by God that was capable of communing with God. In the end, the earth men crossed with the spirit men, and that is where the human race came from.
So yes, the "earth men" of day 6 had a soul. But not a spirit. That did not come until the personal creation of Adam and Eve in the Garden.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Thread title should be self explanatory. What was the first creature(s) to have a soul? When and where did they live? What evidence leads you to your answer? Interested in hearing what people think about this. I'm sure this isn't an exhaustive list, but here's a few maybe starting points off the top of my head.
1) The first living thing was imbued with a soul
2) Complex lifeforms with brains and such
3) Do dogs go to heaven? (e.g. souls were imbued sometime in the evolution of mammals)
4) Primates
5) Early humans (Homo erectus or thereabouts)
6) The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)
7) Some other time?

Adam was different from every other creature. Adam had a spirit and a soul. Adam was self concious, unlike most animals. Adam was God conscious, unlike any animal. It is impossible for a spirit to evolve. If God implanted a spirit into every animal, why are they not God conscious also? Animals do not have a conscience. Who takes a tiger to court for attacking a man? So I reject theistic evolution entirely. Atheistic evolution makes more sense. And I reject evolution completely also.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Adam was different from every other creature. Adam had a spirit and a soul. Adam was self concious, unlike most animals. Adam was God conscious, unlike any animal. It is impossible for a spirit to evolve. If God implanted a spirit into every animal, why are they not God conscious also? Animals do not have a conscience. Who takes a tiger to court for attacking a man? So I reject theistic evolution entirely. Atheistic evolution makes more sense. And I reject evolution completely also.

Understood. One point. The man that "evolved" from the beasts did not have a spirit and I don't think anyone in TE claims they did. I, as well as others, believe as you, that God breathed a spirit into Adam that could commune with God. After Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden, they crossed with the evolved man of the earth, the "earth men."
Thanks

 

[trophy33]

Thread title should be self explanatory. What was the first creature(s) to have a soul? When and where did they live? What evidence leads you to your answer? Interested in hearing what people think about this. I'm sure this isn't an exhaustive list, but here's a few maybe starting points off the top of my head.
1) The first living thing was imbued with a soul
2) Complex lifeforms with brains and such
3) Do dogs go to heaven? (e.g. souls were imbued sometime in the evolution of mammals)
4) Primates
5) Early humans (Homo erectus or thereabouts)
6) The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)
7) Some other time?

You did not provide a definition of a soul.

I see soul as a unique connection of a body and of spirit. Because bodies can be on various levels of complexity, soul of some organisms is very primitive, basically just experiencing.

Soul of mammals is much more complex (emotions, self-recognition) and humans have the most complex soul (abstraction, logic, spirituality...) of earthly organisms.

That means, the more advanced mechanism/system you have for spirit to work with, the more is the organism aware of the world and of itself.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Understood. One point. The man that "evolved" from the beasts did not have a spirit and I don't think anyone in TE claims they did. I, as well as others, believe as you, that God breathed a spirit into Adam that could commune with God. After Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden, they crossed with the evolved man of the earth, the "earth men."
Thanks

I think that is about as credible as man mating with apes.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Thread title should be self explanatory. What was the first creature(s) to have a soul? When and where did they live? What evidence leads you to your answer? Interested in hearing what people think about this. I'm sure this isn't an exhaustive list, but here's a few maybe starting points off the top of my head.
1) The first living thing was imbued with a soul
2) Complex lifeforms with brains and such
3) Do dogs go to heaven? (e.g. souls were imbued sometime in the evolution of mammals)
4) Primates
5) Early humans (Homo erectus or thereabouts)
6) The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)
7) Some other time?

Scripture specifically tells us that God breathed life into Adam after He made him from the dust of the earth. No other creature recieved His image other than Adam and Eve. Additionally, the soul is not subject to the" laws of nature " in the same way that matter and energy are however, the soul must interact with the physical world in order to experience it. A beautiful thing. Blessings.

 

[Kale100]

I wonder if we are confusing the soul and the spirit.

If there is a difference, then yes I am confused, could you explain?
From the context of my OP, should I just replace 'soul' with 'spirit'?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If there is a difference, then yes I am confused, could you explain?
From the context of my OP, should I just replace 'soul' with 'spirit'?

Sorry saint... I did not mean you personally were confused, but the thought generally. It is common.
But a couple verses come to mind, first 1 Thess 5:23
1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV
23. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Spirit and soul and body. The spirit and soul are separate.

Heb 4:12 tells us a couple things.
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

First the spirit and soul can be divided asunder, or separated.
Second, they are so similar in outward function that it is difficult to see the difference and a living, powerful, and sharp instrument is necessary to divide one from the other.
One of the best books on the "whole man" (actually 3 in 1 book(s)) is "The Spiritual Man" by Watchman Nee.
Should you use spirit instead of soul. I think that is up to you. The context of your question, I think, is at what point during the evolution of man did the soul appear. Really good thought question. So in the context of your question, I think soul is the correct term. The pre-adam "earth man" did not have a spirit, so I think we would have to use soul.

 

[Kale100]

Thank you for the information. If I'm still able to edit the OP, it shall henceforth ask thoughts regarding both!

 

[Job 33:6]

Thread title should be self explanatory. What was the first creature(s) to have a soul and to have a spirit? Were soul and spirit imbued at the same time or different times? When and where did each take place? What evidence leads you to your answer? Interested in hearing what people think about this. I'm sure this isn't an exhaustive list, but here's a few maybe starting points off the top of my head.
1) The first living thing
2) Complex lifeforms with brains and such
3) Do dogs go to heaven? (e.g. sometime in the evolution of mammals)
4) Primates
5) Early humans (Homo erectus or thereabouts)
6) The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)
7) Some other time?

Notice: This posting originally only asked about the soul, and was modified to include spirit when it was explained to me that they are not the same thing.

In Genesis, all living things are nephesh. They are souls.

My understanding is that this topic has been debated since Christianity has been around. So I'm not sure that anyone knows. The Bible doesn't provide enough clarity.

 

[Job 33:6]

Scripture specifically tells us that God breathed life into Adam after He made him from the dust of the earth. No other creature recieved His image other than Adam and Eve. Additionally, the soul is not subject to the" laws of nature " in the same way that matter and energy are however, the soul must interact with the physical world in order to experience it. A beautiful thing. Blessings.

This is the NET translation. Actually Adam and Eve are never mentioned in Genesis 1 associated with the image of God. Rather it's referring to all of mankind being in God's image.

Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.” God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:26‭-‬27 NET

Also, the Bible says that animals themselves are nephesh. Just like Adam.
For example:
God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NET

The word there for creatures, is nephesh. Souls.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is the NET translation. Actually Adam and Eve are never mentioned in Genesis 1 associated with the image of God. Rather it's referring to all of mankind being in God's image.

Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.” God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:26‭-‬27 NET

Also, the Bible says that animals themselves are nephesh. Just like Adam.
For example:
God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NET

The word there for creatures, is nephesh. Souls.

I agree. In Hebrew, adam is a gender-neutral word that can refer to both men and women. This means that the original intent of the verse is not to say that God created only one man in His image, but that God created all of humankind in His image. As far as nephesh, it is a complex word with various meanings depending on the context. It can be translated as "soul," "life," "person," "self," or "creature."
Net....
Man- nephesh-soul
Animal-nephesh-creature

Blessings.

 

[Job 33:6]

I agree. In Hebrew, adam is a gender-neutral word that can refer to both men and women. This means that the original intent of the verse is not to say that God created only one man in His image, but that God created all of humankind in His image. As far as nephesh, it is a complex word with various meanings depending on the context. It can be translated as "soul," "life," "person," "self," or "creature."
Net....
Man- nephesh-soul
Animal-nephesh-creature

Blessings.

And one more comment. This is just how I interpret the passages.

I would say that Genesis 1 is referring to more people aside from Adam and Eve. Partly because Adam and Eve are not mentioned in Genesis 1 and comparable creation stories in the region involved God creating populations. Also when we read Genesis we see God creating the fish or saying what the fish swarm and let the birds fly, as if it's referring to entire populations. He set the stars in the sky, a population. So then when mankind comes along it doesn't say he created Adam and Eve rather I would interpret that as if God created a population, God created mankind in large quantity rather than just one or two people.

And then regarding dust, many people in the Bible are made of dust, so I'm not sure if this can be related to a scientific literal kind of material creation.
By the sweat of your brow you shall eat bread, until your return to the ground. For from it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
Genesis 3:19

I will make your descendants like the dust of the earth which, if anyone were able to count the dust of the earth, your descendants would be so counted.
Genesis 13:16

Then Abraham answered and said, “Look, please, I was bold to speak to my Lord, but I am dust and ashes.
Genesis 18:27

Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.
Genesis 28:14

Both go to one place—both came from dust and both return to dust.
Ecclesiastes 3:20

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

How much more dwellers in clay houses, whose foundation is in the dust? They are crushed like a moth.
Job 4:19

Look, this is the joy of his way, and from dust others will spring up.
Job 8:19

Remember that you fashioned me like clay; and will you turn me to dust again?
Job 10:9

See, before God I am as you are; I too was formed from a piece of clay.
Job 33:6

all flesh would perish together, and humankind would return to dust.
Job 34:15

For he knows our frame. He remembers that we are dust.
Psalms 103:14

You hide your face, they are terrified. You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.
Psalms 104:29

What we see is that in many places, the concept of dust is more of an adjective or description associated with the vulnerability, or mortality, of mankind. Not necessarily a concept associated with biochemical makeup of a human being.

Meaning that Genesis 2:7 probably isn't literal (and God doesn't have lungs to breathe literally anyway).

There are additional reasons to not assume that Adam and Eve were the first people.

So God created humankind in his image, in the likeness of God he created him, male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27

 

[Diamond72]

The first evidence of religion associated behaviors in humans (burying the dead, etc.)

We studied this in High School. There was a very rapid increase in the way they would bury the dead in Egypt around 6,000 years ago. This is when God breathed life into man.

 

[Diamond72]

So yes, the "earth men" of day 6 had a soul. But not a spirit. That did not come until the personal creation of Adam and Eve in the Garden.

Adam and Eve had the breath of life. We still have the remains of man before Adam. Chedder man, for example is very interesting because he has living descendants today.

 

[Diamond72]

And then regarding dust, many people in the Bible are made of dust, so I'm not sure if this can be related to a scientific literal kind of material creation.

What the Bible calls dust is what science calls the elements. They are made in the furnace of a star. In the beginning, there was only hydrogen, helium and lithium, the three lightest atoms in the periodic table. All the other elements came from those three.

In the book: Walking the Bible, Bruce Feller talks about the clay in the middle east that God used when He formed Adam and Eve.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sometimes people get upset because we suggest "earth man" evolved from monkeys. But monkeys came from the dirt, just as "spirit man" (adam).
So I fail to see the difference.

 

[Job 33:6]

What the Bible calls dust is what science calls the elements. They are made in the furnace of a star. In the beginning, there was only hydrogen, helium and lithium, the three lightest atoms in the periodic table. All the other elements came from those three.

In the book: Walking the Bible, Bruce Feller talks about the clay in the middle east that God used when He formed Adam and Eve.

There is a difference between clay and helium. In fact, helium is never even mentioned in the Bible. That's just a made-up interpretation that has no basis in scripture.

 

[Diamond72]

There is a difference between clay and helium. In fact, helium is never even mentioned in the Bible. That's just a made-up interpretation that has no basis in scripture.

This comes from Neil Degrasse Tyson's book on astrophysics. Tyson earned his BA in Physics from Harvard and his PhD in Astrophysics from Columbia. Where did you get your PhD in astrophysics? Tyson took over as host of
Cosmos (PBS) from Carl Sagan? This is where the idea that we are "star stuff" began.

The concept behind "we are star stuff" is rooted in the understanding that the elements that make up our bodies, as well as the Earth and everything in the universe, were forged inside stars through processes like nuclear fusion. Elements such as carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, and many others were created inside stars during their life cycles and released into the cosmos when the stars eventually exploded in supernovae.

If you do not see a connection between "star stuff" and "dust" that is fine.

Genesis 2:7 in the Bible states:

"Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature."

In this verse, "dust of the ground" refers to the material from which God formed the first man, Adam. It signifies the physical substance from which human beings were created.

The use of the term "dust" symbolizes the humble and earthly nature of humanity. It emphasizes the idea that human beings are formed from the basic elements of the earth and are intricately connected to the natural world.

Metaphorically, it can also signify human frailty and mortality. Just as dust returns to the earth, so too do human bodies return to the ground after death.

The verse portrays the act of God breathing life into the formed man, giving him the "breath of life" and making him a living being. This represents the infusion of a divine essence or soul into the physical body, distinguishing humans from the rest of creation.