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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Woke is Marxism Evolved to Take on the West

gaara4158

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Then I'd suggest expanding who you listen to.
It didn’t seem to help you. You seem to have reduced EDI initiatives down to “tolerance” all on your own. Any of the programs I’ve read through are much more nuanced than a mere blanket declaration of “tolerance.”
 
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Aldebaran

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It didn’t seem to help you.
I give help to those who need it.
Here's a link to a benchmark of truth (the government) Tolerance Versus Support: Perceptions of Residential Community Climate Among LGB Parents

Conclusion​

Having basic features of equity such as city ordinances and LGB organizations provides a foundation for tolerance in a community; however, individuals in a community must access personal and social supports and activities beyond work and church to feel truly supported.
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A conclusion that tolerance isn't even enough for those people.
 
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gaara4158

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I give help to those who need it.
Here's a link to a benchmark of truth (the government) Tolerance Versus Support: Perceptions of Residential Community Climate Among LGB Parents

Conclusion​

Having basic features of equity such as city ordinances and LGB organizations provides a foundation for tolerance in a community; however, individuals in a community must access personal and social supports and activities beyond work and church to feel truly supported.
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A conclusion that tolerance isn't even enough for those people.
The fact that tolerance isn’t a maxim on the left is my point, not yours.
 
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Aldebaran

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The fact that tolerance isn’t a maxim on the left is my point, not yours.
Not a maxim, but a victim-identity badge for them, and that's where it all started. Tolerance, then support, then celebrate.
 
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gaara4158

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Not a maxim, but a victim-identity badge for them, and that's where it all started. Tolerance, then support, then celebrate.
Tolerance is a goal in cases where intolerance is present and harmful. Harmful intolerance can be stubborn, so sometimes you’ll see the left working hard for tolerance. This is where the right mistakenly identifies the left as claiming to be Omni-tolerant, which isn’t the case. They’re just trying to get you to stop harming people, and the bare minimal form of that is tolerance. Ideally, sure, everyone celebrates everything as long as they’re not causing harm, but we take baby steps.
 
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Aldebaran

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Tolerance is a goal in cases where intolerance is present and harmful. Harmful intolerance can be stubborn, so sometimes you’ll see the left working hard for tolerance. This is where the right mistakenly identifies the left as claiming to be Omni-tolerant, which isn’t the case. They’re just trying to get you to stop harming people, and the bare minimal form of that is tolerance. Ideally, sure, everyone celebrates everything as long as they’re not causing harm, but we take baby steps.
Your closing sentence proves my point.
Tolerance is one thing, but I refuse to support or promote homosexuality, transsexualism (especially for children), and the rest of what the LTGB alphabet soup stands for. If that makes me a "phobe" in your eyes, so be it.
 
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gaara4158

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Your closing sentence proves my point.
Tolerance is one thing, but I refuse to support or promote homosexuality, transsexualism (especially for children), and the rest of what the LTGB alphabet soup stands for. If that makes me a "phobe" in your eyes, so be it.
Support would be better, yes. Of course we want you to support these things you refuse to support. Actively helping people is better than merely not harming them.
 
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Aldebaran

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Support would be better, yes. Of course we want you to support these things you refuse to support. Actively helping people is better than merely not harming them.
And just how is it that you would like me to support homosexuality?
 
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zippy2006

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I agree that a longer discussion examining the definitions and limits of tolerance and intolerance would be in order at this point if we’re to come to an agreement on which side of the political spectrum is objectively more tolerant. I’m also on vacation, so I can’t commit to the lengthy engagement that would entail. There’s already too much to unpack from your response without diving into that. I’ll leave you in the care of the others here who share my perspective. Thanks for the responses!
Very well. Enjoy your vacation. :wave:
 
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Aldebaran

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Be a supportive friend to the gays in your life.
That's called being supportive of people in general. But that's not what I asked you about because it's not what you were advocating.
 
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gaara4158

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That's called being supportive of people in general. But that's not what I asked you about because it's not what you were advocating.
Yes, it is. Tolerating homosexuality means not actively attacking them or targeting them with legislation. Tolerance is necessary where it’s not already present. Supporting homosexuality means treating them no differently than you would your heterosexual friends. As in, don’t grimace every time they mention their same-sex partner, or a date they went on, or bring a same-sex partner around. Include them in your social functions and attend theirs. Be a reliable source of emotional support.

Celebration, which is the next step, would be going to Pride with your gay friends. It’s not morally obligatory but it is morally commendable.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yes, it is. Tolerating homosexuality means not actively attacking them or targeting them with legislation. Tolerance is necessary where it’s not already present. Supporting homosexuality means treating them no differently than you would your heterosexual friends. As in, don’t grimace every time they mention their same-sex partner, or a date they went on, or bring a same-sex partner around. Include them in your social functions and attend theirs. Be a reliable source of emotional support.

Celebration, which is the next step, would be going to Pride with your gay friends. It’s not morally obligatory but it is morally commendable.
It's not morally commendable to give approval of things that are inherently sinful.

Romans 1:32:
"Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
 
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gaara4158

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It's not morally commendable to give approval of things that are inherently sinful.

Romans 1:32:
"Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
We can agree to disagree there. Since your basis for rejecting homosexuality as a valid lifestyle is biblical, you can understand why many in the gay community hold contempt for Christianity. Moreover, you are openly admitting that you will not treat gay people with the basic human courtesy that you afford the straights. And you’re calling the left intolerant? Please.
 
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Tinker Grey

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It's not morally commendable to give approval of things that are inherently sinful.

Romans 1:32:
"Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
Treating people with respect is not giving approval to every aspect (or any) of their lives.
 
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Bradskii

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It's not morally commendable to give approval of things that are inherently sinful.

Romans 1:32:
"Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
You don't have to approve. But thanks for a link that tells us that the punishment is death. It's a good example of what toleration is not about...telling some gay person that they 'deserve to die'.

And 'Hey, I'm just quoting the bible' doesn't cut it. People quote passages from the bible to bolster their argument. Because they believe what the bible says.
 
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Aldebaran

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We can agree to disagree there. Since your basis for rejecting homosexuality as a valid lifestyle is biblical, you can understand why many in the gay community hold contempt for Christianity. Moreover, you are openly admitting that you will not treat gay people with the basic human courtesy that you afford the straights. And you’re calling the left intolerant? Please.
I didn't say anything about gay people. I only addressed the issue of homosexuality.
 
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Aldebaran

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That’s not what it stands for. You made that up.
It's what it amounts to.
Besides, I don't recall anyone having a patent on those 3 letters.
 
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