• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

John Durham concludes FBI should NOT have investigated Trump

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
In collusion with the Trump campaign.

Not according to the Mueller report. If you want the short version....it's "no evidence of collusion" and "not pushing the prospect of prosecuting obstruction" for a very simple and obvious reason....

If you don't know that reason....read the Durham report. There never should have been an investigation to begin with. Obstructing a sham investigation isn't much of a crime.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Okay, so you think crossfire hurricane was about an attack on the Trump campaign by the Democratic party. The Durham report came up empty about that.

Personally, I think Bernie got a raw deal and I'm glad it came out. That doesn't mean I'm glad the Russians interfered in the election to get who they wanted.

I don't know what Russia actually got out of the deal. If the plan was to put in someone inept so they could push forward with the invasion of Ukraine....they screwed up. The understood he was inept....but he was also wildly unpredictable. He spent a considerable amount of time in a shouting match with Lil Kim in N Korea and it was clear that threats of nuclear fire weren't something that he could be bluffed with. By the time he zapped Iran's most competent general and one of our most persistent problems in the middle east....it was obvious to nearly everyone that perhaps waiting for him to leave office was a more prudent choice than any overt aggression.

He basically gave the finger to the international community and Iran decided to call ahead before trying to save face with their own missle launch. I don't think he did these things with the intention of causing Putin to hesitate on any invasion plans....but that does seem to have been the unintended effect. I would be surprised if he understood why it was important to allow Iran to do their missile strike without further escalation....but cooler heads clearly prevailed.

I can't think of anything they clearly got out of it. I can see what they're getting out of Biden though....and that's closer ties and multiple forms of support from China. I'd like to see Ukraine win this war....but I don't think that justifies boots on the ground nor does it justify blowing up the nord stream pipeline. I don't see how Ukraine could win a sustained war....they lack the numbers. Even if they push the Russian forces out....it appears that they have lost too much to repeat the effort without international help. The Russian incompetence is a very fortunate turn for Ukraine....but China is probably more than capable of providing enough intel to bridge the gap.
 
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,180
✟544,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Not according to the Mueller report. If you want the short version....it's "no evidence of collusion" and "not pushing the prospect of prosecuting obstruction" for a very simple and obvious reason....
Yep, simply because
a) collusion isn't a criminal charge so he had no reason to comment on evidence for it and
b) Mueller concluded Donald's team were too dumb to know they were actively being helped by Russian interference, and DoJ prohibited prosecuting a sitting president.

Not exactly the ringing endorsement of innocence that a follower of Donald might hope for, but I guess that's probably the best that can be done given the facts of the situation.
 
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,180
✟544,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I don't know what Russia actually got out of the deal.
They got a guy in the White House actively working to further their interests. Just a few examples :

 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I don't see how you can logically come to that conclusion. The investigation was meant to see if they could corroborate information received from the Australian diplomats relating to the Russian interference that was currently underway at the time. Obviously, you'd need to open an investigation to do that.

From the report: The FBI opened Crossfire Hurricane as a full counterintelligence investigation "to determine whether individual(s) associated with the Trump campaign were witting of and/or coordinating activities with the Government of Russia".

How can I logically come to that conclusion? Easy. The allegations all came from Trump's political opponents and that should be taken with a grain of salt. They did this....because of their own political bias.

Instead of a preliminary investigation to substantiate even one allegation....they launched into a full investigation into a candidate running for office without any shred of evidence.

That's why it ended without any evidence collusion either. Surely I don't have to explain the difference between evidence and allegation to you....do I?



Apart from your opinion, the fact remains that the report cites the FBI saying that the crossfire Hurricane investigation was opened because of the Australian's cable, not the Steele dossier, and the FBI had a duty and obligation to investigate whether Russian intelligence was attempting to compromise or had compromised any individuals in the Trump campaign. To that end the investigation was focused on four people, Michael Flynn, Manafort, Papadopoulos, and Carter Page.

From the report: As an initial matter, there is no question that the FBI had an affirmative obligation to closely examine the Paragraph Five information. The Paragraph Five information, however, was the sole basis cited by the FBI for opening a full investigation into individuals associated with the ongoing Trump campaign.

Again...do you understand the difference between evidence and allegation and why you wouldn't move forward on a full investigation on allegation without any evidence?
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
They got a guy in the White House actively working to further their interests. Just a few examples :

He eased sanctions against a guy who was being punished for Russian interference in the election?

So Congress enacted sanctions against a guy who clearly didn't start any memes on Facebook.



Oh I remember him being accused of a quid pro quo....he withheld aid because he learned Biden and Hunter had been doing favors for cash in the Ukraine and he wanted it investigated. Turned out to be true.
 
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,180
✟544,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
He eased sanctions against a guy who was being punished for Russian interference in the election?

Some people might reasonably think there's something suspicious to a guy who got help from Russia easing sanctions against them after being elected.

So Congress enacted sanctions against a guy who clearly didn't start any memes on Facebook.

This reads like a few fragments of right-wing mythology smushed together into something which makes zero sense unless one lives among the right echo chamber.

Oh I remember him being accused of a quid pro quo....he withheld aid because he learned Biden and Hunter had been doing favors for cash in the Ukraine and he wanted it investigated.
Your memory doesn't seem to line up with what actually happened.
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,869
3,304
67
Denver CO
✟239,560.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How can I logically come to that conclusion? Easy. The allegations all came from Trump's political opponents and that should be taken with a grain of salt. They did this....because of their own political bias.
No, that's not a fair interpretation of the events and it's not even logic. The allegation of a possible Russian operative approaching the campaign began with a fellow named Mifsud in the spring of 2016 who befriended Papadopoulos and who claimed he knew people in high levels of the Russian government. In May of 2016, Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign official, told a foreign diplomat that he had knowledge that Russia had dirt on Hillary in the form of thousands of Hillary's emails. The allegation was witnessed to twice, and by two separate diplomats.

That is also documented in sworn testimony from the Mueller report:
Mifsud told Papadopoulos that he had met with high-level Russian government officials during his recent trip to Moscow. Mifsud also said that, on the trip, he learned that the Russians had obtained “dirt” on candidate Hillary Clinton. As Papadopoulos later stated to the FBI, Mifsud said that the “dirt” was in the form of “emails of Clinton,” and that they “have thousands of emails.”
Instead of a preliminary investigation to substantiate even one allegation....they launched into a full investigation into a candidate running for office without any shred of evidence.
That's a total misrepresentation of the facts. Prior to crossfire hurricane the FBI is already conducting a counterintelligence investigation into the Russian hack of the Whitehouse, the state department, the joint chiefs of staff, and the DNC. In mid-July 2016 Guccifer 2.0 is dumping hacked materials from the DNC so as to hurt the Hillary campaign, which of course is a federal crime happening in real-time.

At this same time, the FBI hears about Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign official, who was approached by someone with knowledge of Hillary emails that had been hacked. The FBI were therefore obligated to investigate whether the Russians were attempting to compromise the Trump campaign. The investigation wasn't even into candidate Trump, but whether his campaign was knowingly co-operating with Russian dissemination of Hacked material.

The standard for opening a full investigation is "an articulable factual basis for the investigation that reasonably indicates that ... [a]n activity constituting a federal crime or a threat to the national security ... is or may be occurring ... and the investigation may obtain information relating to the activity.''

The FBI, as both a federal crime and an ongoing counter-intelligence matter, would have been derelict in their duty to not investigate a Russian attempt to infiltrate a Presidential campaign with the promise of hacked information.

That's why it ended without any evidence collusion either. Surely I don't have to explain the difference between evidence and allegation to you....do I?
No you don't have to explain the difference, thanks for asking though. Actually, the allegations turned out to be true, Russia did in fact have thousands of hacked emails from Hillary, and Papadopoulos was forming friendships with people indicating they could arrange high level meetings with Russia.

There is no conclusive evidence that Trump or his campaign conspired or coordinated in interference activities, but Roger stone did have a contact with WikiLeaks informing him what types of emails and when dumps of those hacked materials would happen. However, as pertains to collusion, what bothers me the most, is the email exchanges with Don jr. conveying that Russia secretly wanted to help Trump, which turned into the subsequent meeting at Trump tower, followed by the public denial of any knowledge of Russia involving themselves to help their campaign.
Again...do you understand the difference between evidence and allegation and why you wouldn't move forward on a full investigation on allegation without any evidence?
Well, I don't agree with that assessment because that's not even the case here. It was already known that crowd strike had determined it was Russia that hacked the DNC, so any information from two witnesses of a Trump campaign official being approached with knowledge of Hillary emails from Russia would need to be investigated. Particularly if the campaign official didn't notify the FBI knowing of its illegality.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Say it aint so

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2020
2,909
2,477
27
Seattle
✟155,873.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
He eased sanctions against a guy who was being punished for Russian interference in the election?

So Congress enacted sanctions against a guy who clearly didn't start any memes on Facebook.
oh man.
 
Upvote 0

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
6,593
4,574
NW
✟244,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Oh I remember him being accused of a quid pro quo....he withheld aid because he learned Biden and Hunter had been doing favors for cash in the Ukraine and he wanted it investigated. Turned out to be true.
Never happened.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: KCfromNC
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
May 22, 2015
27,291
8,706
65
✟419,410.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
So Mueller comes out and says there wasn't anything to the whole Trump Russia hoax. Durham comes out and says the FBI should never have done an investigation and STILL the left is adamant that Mueller suggested Trump is guilty and Durham didn't say what he said.

They just can't let go of the conspiracy theories and the gas lighting. It's quite amusing.

Don't bother responding to this because I'm not going to respond to you. After all of this and you still can't admit it. All you are going to do is repeat the same garbage that's been repeated umpteen times even though Mueller and Durham have said you are wrong.

Any more its just blah blah blah.
 
Upvote 0

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
42,070
16,820
Dallas
✟896,391.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
So Mueller comes out and says there wasn't anything to the whole Trump Russia hoax.
There was no "Donald Russia hoax".
Durham comes out and says the FBI should never have done an investigation
He literally said just the opposite. There should have been a pre-investigation.

>> Under the FBI's guidelines, the investigation could have been opened more appropriately as an assessment or preliminary investigation. FBI investigations opened as preliminary investigations, short offull investigations, include time limits and a narrower range of authorized techniques to mitigate risk and avoid unnecessary intrusion. <<
They just can't let go of the conspiracy theories and the gas lighting.
That's hilarious. Ashli Babbitt was trending on Twitter Monday and there many posting how she was trying to stop the mob from breaking through the door when she was shot.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

One nation indivisible
Mar 11, 2017
20,892
15,787
55
USA
✟398,144.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
That's hilarious. Ashli Babbitt was trending on Twitter Monday and there many posting how she was trying to stop the mob from breaking through the door when she was shot.

My word that is loony. To be clear Babbitt wasn't in physical contact with anyone in the final moments before she was shot. She wasn't trying to stop anyone and no one in the crowd was trying to stop her when she climbed up on something (chair or something) up against the door to Speaker's Lobby and poised as if to leap through the broken-out window of the door. At that point she was shot.
 

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
42,070
16,820
Dallas
✟896,391.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
My word that is loony. To be clear Babbitt wasn't in physical contact with anyone in the final moments before she was shot. She wasn't trying to stop anyone and no one in the crowd was trying to stop her when she climbed up on something (chair or something) up against the door to Speaker's Lobby and poised as if to leap through the broken-out window of the door. At that point she was shot.
I've seen two angles and I think she jumped up into the window, though she might have gotten a boost.

I'm constantly having to explain to red hats not only what actually happened, but that she was Security Forces while in the AF and would have had shoot to kill orders while guarding airplanes. If anything, being former law enforcement, she should have known you don't try to jump through the busted out window of a barricaded door when you're at the vanguard of a rampaging mob and an officer has his gun drawn on you.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
22,054
13,602
Earth
✟232,100.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
I've seen two angles and I think she jumped up into the window, though she might have gotten a boost.

I'm constantly having to explain to red hats not only what actually happened, but that she was Security Forces while in the AF and would have had shoot to kill orders while guarding airplanes. If anything, being former law enforcement, she should have known you don't try to jump through the busted out window of a barricaded door when you're at the vanguard of a rampaging mob and an officer has his gun drawn on you.
I ain’t got not LEO experience, nor do I confess to having a robust military-mind, (or any mind at all, FTM), but if a crowd is nearing that “they can’t kill is all!” phase, it’s vitally important to “kill the first one”.

This is, in fact, what happened.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

One nation indivisible
Mar 11, 2017
20,892
15,787
55
USA
✟398,144.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I've seen two angles and I think she jumped up into the window, though she might have gotten a boost.
She was definitely standing on something about the same height as the window, but her whole body was on the outside, so it wasn't the frame of the door (with broken glass).
I'm constantly having to explain to red hats not only what actually happened, but that she was Security Forces while in the AF and would have had shoot to kill orders while guarding airplanes. If anything, being former law enforcement, she should have known you don't try to jump through the busted out window of a barricaded door when you're at the vanguard of a rampaging mob and an officer has his gun drawn on you.
I think there is good reason to think she wasn't thinking rationally. From her social media, it was clear that she had a problem with blind rage. Even if it only blocked her senses enough to not hear the others in the hallway shouting about "gun" or see the officer herself, that self-blinding may have been a significant contributor to her shooting.
 
Upvote 0

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
Site Supporter
Dec 25, 2003
42,070
16,820
Dallas
✟896,391.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I think there is good reason to think she wasn't thinking rationally. From her social media, it was clear that she had a problem with blind rage. Even if it only blocked her senses enough to not hear the others in the hallway shouting about "gun" or see the officer herself, that self-blinding may have been a significant contributor to her shooting.
The video from the left side of the hallway (not Sullivan's) shows her shrieking at officers and bouncing around in an agitated state. The girl had issues, but she shouldn't have put herself in that situation. That's why I have a growing collection of Ashli memes.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I ain’t got not LEO experience, nor do I confess to having a robust military-mind, (or any mind at all, FTM), but if a crowd is nearing that “they can’t kill is all!” phase, it’s vitally important to “kill the first one”.

This is, in fact, what happened.

Remarkable...you must have been relieved when Rittenhouse was acquitted.
 
Upvote 0