Is believing/faith a work ?

[Jesus is YHWH]

So how are we saved then? Paul says it's through faith we are saved, but if faith is a work and salvation is not of works how is that possible?

Faith is not a work that’s a strawman argument.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There is a difference man's works and the Holy Spirit's works. Faith is the work of the Spirit.

perhaps, but a person still must accept that working fo the Spirit. Seeds dont grow in hard or thorny soil

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Faith is not a work that’s a strawman argument.

I would agree that faith is not a work. A strawman though, eh. Its fun to discuss these things

 

[Yarddog]

perhaps, but a person still must accept that working fo the Spirit. Seeds dont grow in hard or thorny soil

The Spirit created good soil.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is not a work that’s a strawman argument.

Yes it is, Jesus implies that here Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Thats Faith, he is the Father of the faithful, them who believe

Rom 4:11-12

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes it is, Jesus implies that here Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Thats Faith, he is the Father of the faithful, them who believe

Rom 4:11-12

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Sorry listen to the renown Calvinist Gill

of reasoning Christ uses;

"a disciple is to be judged of according to his manners; he that walks in the ways of the Lord, he is of the disciples of Abraham, our father, seeing he is used to his manners, and learns of his works; but the disciple who is corrupt in his manners, though he is of the children of Israel, lo, he is not of the "disciples of Abraham", seeing he is not accustomed to his manners.''

Faith without works is dead. No fruit no faith , no works no faith .

Eph 2:10- For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2-
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

You are preaching a dead faith without works.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Brightfame52]

Sorry listen to the renown Calvinist Gill

of reasoning Christ uses;

"a disciple is to be judged of according to his manners; he that walks in the ways of the Lord, he is of the disciples of Abraham, our father, seeing he is used to his manners, and learns of his works; but the disciple who is corrupt in his manners, though he is of the children of Israel, lo, he is not of the "disciples of Abraham", seeing he is not accustomed to his manners.''

Faith without works is dead. No fruit no faith , no works no faith .

Eph 2:10- For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2-
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

You are preaching a dead faith without works.

hope this helps !!!

Nothing changes, Faith is work, believing is a act which springs out of faith. Jesus referred to Abrahams Faith/believing as the works of Abraham Jn 8:39

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham

John Gill

But to distinguish those who were religious and virtuous among the Jews themselves, from those that were not; and so our Lord means not to deny, that the Jews, though they were evil men, were the seed of Abraham, according to the flesh; but that they were not so in a spiritual sense, they did not tread in his steps, or do the works he did. The Persic version reads in the singular number, "ye would do the work of Abraham"; and if any particular work is designed, it is most likely to be the work of faith, since it was that which Abraham was famous for; and the doing of which denominated men, even Gentiles, the children of Abraham, and which the Jews were wanting in, they disbelieving and rejecting the Messiah.

 

[Dah'veed]

There is a difference man's works and the Holy Spirit's works. Faith is the work of the Spirit.

So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. Acts 20:32
"So that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me." Acts 26:18
That the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Rom 15:16

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that, whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved or Justified before God by that, implying His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work of Faith or believing, that made them saved or Justified !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually Justified or saved by it !34

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No one is saved apart from faith and Jesus who is God and a believers AUTHORITY taught the following about faith.

Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you healed you.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

See Barnes the Calvinist below. Someone who is honest with the text as a Greek Scholar and Theologian not allowing his doctrines interfere with the truth contained in the text which is eisegesis- reading ones own personal views into the text.

The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.

2. All people were in a hopeless condition.

3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.

4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.

5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dah'veed]

Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that, whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved or Justified before God by that, implying His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work of Faith or believing, that made them saved or Justified !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually Justified or saved by it !34

On the contrary, they are saying that through His sacrifice, Christ paid the penalty for sin and was raised victorious, which is why they are saved.
It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God...Rom 8:33-34
God exalted him to his own right hand... We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. Acts 5:31-32

 

[Brightfame52]

jiy

No one is saved apart from faith and Jesus who is God and a believers AUTHORITY taught the following about faith.

Post 1009 did you read and understand it ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Post 1010 did you read and understand Jesus the source of truth ?

I’ll go with Jesus teaching 24/7 over the teachings of man.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Brightfame52]

Post 1010 did you read and understand Jesus the source of truth ?

I’ll go with Jesus teaching 24/7 over the teachings of man.

hope this helps !!!

Im interested in post 1009. Did you understand it ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I’m interested in the next one filled with truth !!!

See the truth below

Is believing/faith a work ?

So how are we saved then? Paul says it's through faith we are saved, but if faith is a work and salvation is not of works how is that possible? Faith is not a work that’s a strawman argument.

www.christianforums.com

 

[Brightfame52]

I’m interested in the next one filled with truth !!!

See the truth below

Is believing/faith a work ?

So how are we saved then? Paul says it's through faith we are saved, but if faith is a work and salvation is not of works how is that possible? Faith is not a work that’s a strawman argument.

www.christianforums.com

Im interested in post 1009. Did you understand it ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I understand Gods word which is truth not your version of His word.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Brightfame52]

I understand Gods word which is truth not your version of His word.

hope this helps !!!

Do you understand this ?

Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that, whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved or Justified before God by that, implying His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work of Faith or believing, that made them saved or Justified !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually Justified or saved by it !

 

[John Mullally]

Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that, whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved or Justified before God by that, implying His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work of Faith or believing, that made them saved or Justified !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually Justified or saved by it !34

I understand that none of what you say here is scripture.

Calvinists conflate Faith with Works. We receive the Spirit by hearing with faith (Galatians 3:2), and hence faith is our introduction to grace (Romans 5:1-2). However, from the Calvinistic perspective, any religion that teaches that salvation comes about by anything other than an “Irresistible Grace,” necessarily makes salvation into a works-based process, because (as it is reasoned) once you incorporate any act of the human will—what is left is some element of human contribution in the process. So, when Calvinists say that “salvation is of the Lord” (Jonah 2:9), what they really mean is that God does everything in salvation, including the act of faith, on behalf of the elect-person, by overcoming their resistance through an irresistible gift of pre-faith regeneration. In other words, Calvinists believe that faith becomes a “work” whenever we come to think of faith as something that we do ourselves, absent of an Irresistible Grace. This means that in Calvinism, faith without Irresistible Grace = works. Calvinist "Irresistible Grace" is found no where in scripture.

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?​

​

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.​

Christ's atonement saves those who believe. Since Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition, but Calvinists seek to revise God’s condition to imply that the atonement itself completes a transaction, in which the atonement itself does something to the individual which produces faith.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

​

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

​

Numbers 21:6 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.​

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Do you understand this ?

Apparently you don't.