Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[Photon Guy]

I haven't seen any proposals for banning rifles for simply having a pistol grip.

The pistol grip is one of the features that, along with other features, can make a rifle illegal in some jurisdictions. A pistol grip alone won't make a rifle illegal but a pistol grip along with an adjustable stock for instance, can cause the rifle to be illegal in some states and jurisdictions.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The pistol grip is one of the features that, along with other features, can make a rifle illegal in some jurisdictions. A pistol grip alone won't make a rifle illegal but a pistol grip along with an adjustable stock for instance, can cause the rifle to be illegal in some states and jurisdictions.

yet, I bet that people still use them in those states.

 

[Photon Guy]

I'm going to cut and paste this, because you're just going in circles:



A weapon suitable for combat involves more than the one feature of being fully automatic. The only thing the AR-15 lacks is the fully automatic option, but in every other way it is more suitable for combat than a hunting rifle.

So why doesn't the Army use fully automatic mini M-14's? With your background Im sure you can explain why such a weapon would not be suitable for the Army.

 

[Photon Guy]

And yet many people choose it for hunting. I'm pretty sure that if they did so just to "look cool" while out in the woods (to the deer perhaps), they'd quickly decide otherwise if it didn't prove to be effective. Building A Custom AR-15 Hunting Rifle | Great Days Outdoors

Yes, so in other words those same features that make the rifle more suitable for combat also make it more suitable for hunting.

 

[RDKirk]

So why doesn't the Army use fully automatic mini M-14's? With your background Im sure you can explain why such a weapon would not be suitable for the Army.

I've already pointed out that all those "cosmetic" details make the difference for a combat weapon.

 

[Photon Guy]

A pistol is less than 30". Should they be banned for being even more "beneficial in manuvering in closed quarters"?

A pistol also has a pistol grip, and even a mag release right there where it can quickly be pushed by a thumb for quick mag changes.

A pistol is also semiauto, and accepts detachable magazines.

Best yet, a pistol is far more concealable than any "assault rifle" and can be brought to more public places unnoticed.

Maybe it's not any type of rifle that is a real threat here.

But a pistol has far less ballistic power than a rifle.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, so in other words those same features that make the rifle more suitable for combat also make it more suitable for hunting.

If they did, nobody would use anything else for hunting...because Ar-15 style weapons are relatively inexpensive.

One big difference that makes the AR-15 less suitable for most hunting is that it's a carbine.

 

[Photon Guy]

Deism isn't Christianity. Deism was a philosophical view that arose out of the European Enlightenment and, at least in part, was a reaction against organized religion. The Enligtenment championed reason over faith, and was a response to the wars of religion which had plagued Europe since the time of the Reformation. While not getting into everything on that; what is important to point out here is that Deism has nothing to do with Christianity.

I don't know that saying "Christian morals had a heavy influence on the Constitution" is as strong an argument as some would like it to be. I think people would like to think this is true, but isn't really.



I believe, at least historically, it far more accurate to say the Constitution is a product of the Enlightenement and the secular philosophies of the time. Such things can only be said to be "Christian" in the thinnest and most shallowest sense of the term, in much the same way that one can argue that the works of Shakespeare or Chaucer are "Christian" in that they arose out of a nominally Christian civilization. But to call nominally Christian civilization "Christian" is, itself, rather problematic and betrays the sanctity of our religion and the Lord whose precious blood has ransomed us from the powers and principalities of this fallen world.

-CryptoLutheran

Well I will say this much, the 2A is at least inspired by Christianity, after all Jesus did have His apostles carry swords which were the staple weapon of the roman soldiers back then.

 

[Photon Guy]

There needs to be a limit on magazine capacity for handguns.

Only if said limit also applies to the police and military and the handguns they use.

 

[Photon Guy]

If it's the weapon that is intended to attract the most attention, then why are most mass shootings done with handguns? Every mass shooter is aiming for "attention."

It's the mass shootings that are done with rifles that always make the front page in the news.

 

[JosephZ]

The pistol grip is one of the features that, along with other features, can make a rifle illegal in some jurisdictions. A pistol grip alone won't make a rifle illegal but a pistol grip along with an adjustable stock for instance, can cause the rifle to be illegal in some states and jurisdictions.

Exactly. That's why I said I haven't seen any proposals for banning rifles for simply having a pistol grip.

Only if said limit also applies to the police and military and the handguns they use.

What's your reasoning behind making that a requirement?

 

[JosephZ]

It's the mass shootings that are done with rifles that always make the front page in the news.

That's because mass shootings where handguns are used are usually related to domestic violence or take place in the course of another crime being committed such as armed robberies or are related to drug and/or gang violence. The victims are more likely to be known by the shooter in those cases. Mass shootings involving "assault style" rifles, on the otherhand, are often random and involve people who are strangers to the shooter which occur in public places like malls, schools, churches, etc. These types of events are more shocking to the general public and many times have a higher number of casualties.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That's because mass shootings where handguns are used are usually related to domestic violence or take place in the course of another crime being committed such as armed robberies or are related to drug and/or gang violence. The victims are more likely to be known by the shooter in those cases. Mass shootings involving "assault style" rifles, on the otherhand, are often random and involve people who are strangers to the shooter which occur in public places like malls, schools, churches, etc. These types of events are more shocking to the general public and many times have a higher number of casualties.

so again do you truly want to save lives or just control people; because the fact is when you look at TOTAL body count banning handguns makes more sense, yet SCOUNTS has said that is a no go.

 

[JosephZ]

so again do you truly want to save lives or just control people; because the fact is when you look at TOTAL body count banning handguns makes more sense, yet SCOUNTS has said that is a no go.

There's nothing that can be done to end all firearm violence and banning all rifles or handguns is off the table. I don't know of anyone who would support such a proposal. However; implementing stricter gun control laws, which a majority of Americans support, will reduce the number of victims each year.

 

[dogs4thewin]

There's nothing that can be done to end all firearm violence and banning all rifles or handguns is off the table. I don't know of anyone who would support such a proposal. However; implementing stricter gun control laws, which a majority of Americans support, will reduce the number of victims each year.

In other words people understand that we would save few lives by that anyway?

 

[RDKirk]

That's because mass shootings where handguns are used are usually related to domestic violence or take place in the course of another crime being committed such as armed robberies or are related to drug and/or gang violence. The victims are more likely to be known by the shooter in those cases. Mass shootings involving "assault style" rifles, on the otherhand, are often random and involve people who are strangers to the shooter which occur in public places like malls, schools, churches, etc. These types of events are more shocking to the general public and many times have a higher number of casualties.

I think it was in this thread that I said something like this earlier.

 

[Aldebaran]

Earlier in the thread you said Virginia attempted to ban all semi-auto rifles, which is not true. You also said that Washington is about to pass a ban on sales and importation that covers basically all semi-automatic rifles, which is debatable since it's hard to determine just how many models of semi-automatic rifles and variants of each there are. That law did in fact pass, and even if it does ban most semi-automatic rifles, there are still plenty of semi-automatic rifles available for people living in that state to purchase.

Can you give us a list of all the semi-auto rifles that people would still be able to purchase?

 

[Aldebaran]

But a pistol has far less ballistic power than a rifle.

True, but mass shooters have still killed just as many people when they do their attacks with one.

 

[Aldebaran]

What's your reasoning behind making that a requirement?

If civilians should have the amount of ammo in their guns limited, then why not the police? After all, isn't the reasoning that "high capacity guns are designed to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time possible"? Why do police need such a thing???

 

[JosephZ]

Can you give us a list of all the semi-auto rifles that people would still be able to purchase?

I don't have the time to do the research that would be involved to find out which ones people would still be able to purchase. In the meantime you can go to sites like Guns.com and see what would be available. Here's a link that limits semi-automatic rifles to 10 or fewer rounds on that site. Semi-Automatic Rifles :: Guns.com You will still have to go through and weed out the ones with pistol grips and other accessories that fall under the ban.

Here's a semi-automatic rifle that Rugar has come out with that is specifically designed to be compliant in states with assault weapon bans.

Ruger® PC Carbine™ Autoloading Rifle Model 19101

ruger.com

I'm sure other manufatures will follow suite and begin producing comliant models similar to some of the more popular "assault style" semi-automatic rifles that are currently available as more states pass laws against purchasing them