WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[DamianWarS]

Very good points. We can all see it.

Jesus has perfect interpretation of the law. An example is Jesus saying it is lawful to do good on the sabbath to justify healing on the sabbath and he intentionally goes against a false spirit. Jesus didn't just say it is lawful to heal on the sabbath but he went for the broadest term he could get and boldly state that it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

The letter of the sabbath is broadly don't work, and don't cause anyone else to work. That last part is actually quite hard to do in a modern context (or ancient). There are a lot of things we do that cause people to work, like using the internet, turning on the lights, or driving our car. All these things create a workforce demand and if they are non-essential use (so we're clear I'm not talking about turning off the heat during winter, or shutting down hospitals), we should be viewing them as violating the letter of the law. it may seem extreme but the law was extreme too and that's sort of the point.

But Jesus tells us doing good on the Sabbath is lawful (remember he has perfect interpretation of the law), so rather than look to the letter of the law to define our actions which in a modern context we have made compromises to keep our lives comfortable, why not just do good? Is that not a more laudable goal anyway? "doing good" in this sense can be used as a heuristic to being lawful. It's not about not keeping the law, it's about fulfilling the law through our actions that on the surface may actually violate the letter yet are still lawful, the goal is goodness in this case not actually keeping the letter which can have very different products. Because as Jesus puts it, it is lawful to do good... so then let's do good.

 

[expos4ever]

Let's take a look.
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

No direct or indirect reference to the Law of Moses - one needs to impose such an interpretation on the text

Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

No direct or indirect reference to the Law of Moses - one needs to impose such an interpretation on the text.

Matt 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

No direct or indirect reference to the Law of Moses - one needs to impose such an interpretation on the text.

Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness...........etc.

Again, none of these texts contain either direct or indirect references to the Law of Moses - one needs to impose such an interpretation on the text.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Again, you must know, if you are following all posts in this thread, that this particular translation - where "anomia" is rendered as "transgression of the law" is amongst the minority of translations. Most have something like "sin is lawlessness". And "lawlessness" is a general concept with no necessary specificity to the Law of Moses.

What you are doing is this: You post a whole whack of texts that refer to "sin" and "iniquity" and then tack on a questionable translation of 1 John 3:4 that equates sin with "transgression of the law". A naive reader, not aware that the 1 John 3:4 translation is dubious, will think "well, I guess all these other texts that refer to "sin", even though they do mention the Law of Moses must, in order to preserve overall Biblcai inerrancy, be consistent with 1 John 3:4 where sin is indeed characterized in relation to the Law".

I trust you see the problem.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not one of the 10 commandments? What? How is that of any difference? A command of God is a command.

You made the statement that the annual sabbaths are the same as the Sabbath that is in the Ten Commandments, but you provided no scripture that shows this is a biblical argument.

You seemed to acknowledge that the weekly Sabbath was God's perfect plan before sin which is correct. The weekly Sabbath is the day dedicated to spending a full 24 hours resting in God's Word and through His Spirit. It is time set aside for God on His holy and blessed day. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 You can't know someone unless you spend time with them and knowing God is pivotal to our salvation. Matthew 7:23, 1 John 1:3 The Sabbath commandment is a memorial pointing back to Creation "Remember the Sabbath day" Exodus 20:8 because God is the one who created everything and sanctifies us. It says remember because it's something that previously happened. What did not happen at Creation was the sacrifices for sins -annual sabbath(s) at Creation there was no sin. Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 and where there is no sin there is no transgression Romans 4:15, meaning the law of God has been from the beginning. The Ten Commandments has always been because Lucifer sinned, so there had to be the law of God in heaven. The earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple Heb 8:5 where God dwells, which means the Ten Commandments, written by the finger of God is in heaven under the mercy seat of Jesus in the Most Holy of His Temple. Revelation 11:19 Which means the Sabbath commandment could never end and we see scripture confirming this. Isaiah 66:23

The Ten Commandments is what points out sin Romans 7:7 the law of Moses which contained ordinances and the annual sabbaths was added because of sin Gal 3:19 and all pointed to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when we have a change in heart for our sins (breaking God's law) and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. John 14:15-18 Acts 2:38

The Ten Commandments was personally written by the finger of God Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16 the law of Moses was handwritten in a book Deut 31:24, 2 Cor 35:12 The Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark Exodus 40:20 and is not grievous 1 John 5:3 the law of Moses was placed outside the ark Deut 31:26 and contained curses Deut 29:20-23 Gal 3:10 God's law is perfect Psalms 19:7 and you cannot improve on perfection, yet men try by adding their rules to God's rules. God told us to not add or subtract from His commandments Duet 4:2 or add to His Word Proverbs 30:5-6 yet men still do this and think they are following God. Context gives us which law is being referred to in scripture, but many don't understand the differences in the laws and their purposes so instead they depend on their righteousness over God's Psalms 119:172, their works over God's work Exodus 32:16 they think they can sanctify themselves, but only God can, and He does that through the Truth of His Word John 17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:105

What is sad and has deceived the majority is that we no longer need to keep the Ten Commandments, we only need to keep 9 of the Ten, or none of them or 8. The majority of churches are no longer teaching the Ten Commandments mainly due to the one commandment God said 'Remember" yet man teaches us to forget. This was all predicted in scripture that the Sabbath would be changed but not from God. Daniel 7:25 and we see this plainly being played out in history, the one who changed the Sabbath even boasts about it. Scripture tells us those who keep God's commandments is a remnant Revelation 12:17 Jesus condemned those who keep their traditions over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9. It all comes down to, do we obey God, the Creator and keep His commandments, or follow man, the creation who is leading us away from obeying God. In scripture it was those who claimed to be God's people who crucified Jesus and there are a lot of people who claim to be God's people, yet place their will over God's will. God's will is that we obey Him. He wrote the Ten Commandments on stone and now placed in our hearts and minds and we obey Him through love and faith, even if its not popular.

 

[Leaf473]

And regarding reformed churches, we can check with The Second Helvetic Confession:

SUPERSTITION. In this connection we do not yield to the Jewish observance and to superstitions. For we do not believe that one day is any holier than another, or think that rest in itself is acceptable to God. Moreover, we celebrate the Lord's Day and not the Sabbath as a free observance.

THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION

Very interesting

 

[Leaf473]

No sir

Where did you find that statistic, then?

 

[Leaf473]

Here is a Link. I have been running theword on my computer for about 15 years with zero issues. It is free bible software. If you download pm me and I will help you navigate to download the packages that apply to your specific needs. They have modules that you can pay for, but the free ones will get you what you need. The only one I paid for is the BDAG and I have close to100 free resources in this program that I picked.

Cool! Since the software is downloaded on your computer already, can you find an occurrence of nomia in the New Testament?

Also, would you be able to give the references for where nomos occurs in the lxx? Can you copy and paste out of the software into here?

 

[Leaf473]

So some of you think John's understanding of what sin is was different than Paul's?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

John is speaking of willful sin. He says, "whosoever commits the sin also commits the wickedness. And the sin is the wickedness."

Right, coveting would be a good example of living without restraint, out of control.

But it doesn't follow that in 2 John, anomia refers to breaking any law in Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus has perfect interpretation of the law.

Indeed He does - and He is "Just and true" Rev 15:3 not random and inconsistent.

When He says in Heb 4:15 that He was without sin...
When He says in 1 John 3:4 that "Sin IS transgression of the Law"
When He says that the LAW is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34

He speaks truth - not slick sort of marketing campaign where up really means down.

He can be trusted.

An example is Jesus saying it is lawful to do good on the sabbath

Which He spoke before the cross - before anyone claims anything had been abolished. Even the animal sacrifice laws were in full effect then.

He spoke OT truth before the cross - that is still true to this very day.

It is "Good" for a carpenter to do a good job on the projects given him - but Christ was not doing carpentry on Sabbath and every competent Bible scholar on planet Earth knows it. We cannot conflate the fact that it is good for GOD to do Miracles on Sabbath - with doing a good job as a carpenter on Sabbath. This is not even a little bit confusing.

to justify healing on the sabbath

Indeed. And we find nothing in the Word of God condemning miracles of God done on Sabbath including healing.

and he intentionally goes against a false spirit.

Amen. His enemies loved to imagine that He was in violation of the Word of God.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

You made the statement that the annual sabbaths are the same as the Sabbath that is in the Ten Commandments, but you provided no scripture that shows this is a biblical argument.

You seemed to acknowledge that the weekly Sabbath was God's perfect plan before sin which is correct. The weekly Sabbath is the day dedicated to spending a full 24 hours resting in God's Word and through His Spirit. It is time set aside for God on His holy and blessed day. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 You can't know someone unless you spend time with them and knowing God is pivotal to our salvation. Matthew 7:23, 1 John 1:3 The Sabbath commandment is a memorial pointing back to Creation "Remember the Sabbath day" Exodus 20:8 because God is the one who created everything and sanctifies us. It says remember because it's something that previously happened. What did not happen at Creation was the sacrifices for sins -annual sabbath(s) at Creation there was no sin. Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 and where there is no sin there is no transgression Romans 4:15, meaning the law of God has been from the beginning. The Ten Commandments has always been because Lucifer sinned, so there had to be the law of God in heaven. The earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple Heb 8:5 where God dwells, which means the Ten Commandments, written by the finger of God is in heaven under the mercy seat of Jesus in the Most Holy of His Temple. Revelation 11:19 Which means the Sabbath commandment could never end and we see scripture confirming this. Isaiah 66:23

The Ten Commandments is what points out sin Romans 7:7 the law of Moses which contained ordinances and the annual sabbaths was added because of sin Gal 3:19 and all pointed to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when we have a change in heart for our sins (breaking God's law) and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. John 14:15-18 Acts 2:38

The Ten Commandments was personally written by the finger of God Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16 the law of Moses was handwritten in a book Deut 31:24, 2 Cor 35:12 The Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark Exodus 40:20 and is not grievous 1 John 5:3 the law of Moses was placed outside the ark Deut 31:26 and contained curses Deut 29:20-23 Gal 3:10 God's law is perfect Psalms 19:7 and you cannot improve on perfection, yet men try by adding their rules to God's rules. God told us to not add or subtract from His commandments Duet 4:2 or add to His Word Proverbs 30:5-6 yet men still do this and think they are following God. Context gives us which law is being referred to in scripture, but many don't understand the differences in the laws and their purposes so instead they depend on their righteousness over God's Psalms 119:172, their works over God's work Exodus 32:16 they think they can sanctify themselves, but only God can, and He does that through the Truth of His Word John 17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:105

What is sad and has deceived the majority is that we no longer need to keep the Ten Commandments, we only need to keep 9 of the Ten, or none of them or 8. The majority of churches are no longer teaching the Ten Commandments mainly due to the one commandment God said 'Remember" yet man teaches us to forget. This was all predicted in scripture that the Sabbath would be changed but not from God. Daniel 7:25 and we see this plainly being played out in history, the one who changed the Sabbath even boasts about it. Scripture tells us those who keep God's commandments is a remnant Revelation 12:17 Jesus condemned those who keep their traditions over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9. It all comes down to, do we obey God, the Creator and keep His commandments, or follow man, the creation who is leading us away from obeying God. In scripture it was those who claimed to be God's people who crucified Jesus and there are a lot of people who claim to be God's people, yet place their will over God's will. God's will is that we obey Him. He wrote the Ten Commandments on stone and now placed in our hearts and minds and we obey Him through love and faith, even if its not popular.

This will be my last response to about the circular arguments you keep writing. The 10 Commandments are of no greater importance than anything else God Himself has laid out as commandments. Those that do so are making an idol of something that should not be. The 10 commandments are part of the Law - a summary. The rest of the commandments are an explanation of how God wanted His covenant nation of Israel to behave and live according to that Law.
That is exactly why it was so shocking when Paul wrote what he did in Colossians. In Christ, you are no longer beholden to keep the Law and it's observations of feasts, and new moons, and sabbaths and what to eat or drink. Free completely. The Law was a shadow of things to come which Christ completely fulfilled. But again, in Christ, you are free to keep those observances out of love to God because now they can be kept not out of legalism but in a state of actual purity before God.

What is truly sad is that the Judaizers Paul had to contend with are still with us today using verses to guilt people into keeping the parts of the Old Testament Law that they pick and choose from.
"yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal 2:16

 

[expos4ever]

Coveting is a commandment and law of God Romans 7:7 from Exodus 20 your argument seems to be with the Text.

We have had this discussion many times and while it may be fruitless to repeat it to you, perhaps others who are following can evaluate my position on this.

People, like you, who insist that the 10 commandments are still in force often make the kind of argument you are making - that if one is going to say the 10 are set aside, then one must, by implication, believe that coveting (or murder, or adultery) are all Ok since these behaviours are proscribed by the 10 commandments.

The counterargument is that with the indwelling Holy Spirit, we have a new source for moral guidance - the Spirit replaces the Law. The fact that, obviously, the Spirit is not going to say "go ahead and covet thy neighbour's donkey" does not mean the commandment against coveting is still in place. The content of what the Spirit says about coveting and what the Law says about coveting may be the same. But that does not mean we are under the jurisdiction of the 10 commandments!

Analogy: I am a Canadian and therefore subject to Canadian law, not American law. Both Canadian Law and America Law consider murder to be illegal, but this surely does not mean that American Law applies to me!

To make the analogy explicit. For me,

Canadian law = the indwelling Spirit
American law = the 10 commandments

Both Canadian and American law say the same thing about murder - just like both the Spirit and the 10 commandments say the same thing about coveting - but this obviously does not mean that I, a Canadian, am under American law.

 

[expos4ever]

Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4

I see this somewhat misleading statement needs to continually be corrected.

Most translations, but, to be fair, only a relative small majority, render this verse as something like "sin is lawlessness" with no specific reference to the Law of Moses. Naive readers can get tripped up when others, like you, post a version of this verse that does indeed refer to the Law of Moses or God's Law. I am sure in many cases, there is no intent to mislead, although in other cases, as we have seen in this thread, there is indeed such intent.

Also note that the NASB - a translation highly regarded for accuracy - has "sin is lawlessness". As does the Young's Literal Translation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This will be my last response to about the circular arguments you keep writing. The 10 Commandments are of no greater importance than anything else God Himself has laid out as commandments.

Well, you will have to support that by scripture..... God does not do things randomly.

One of the wisest men in scripture said this....

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all.

Paul said:

1 Cor 7:19 but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Those that do so are making an idol of something that should not be.

So your view is obeying God is a sin? Thats an interesting concept.

The 10 commandments are part of the Law - a summary.

The Ten Commandments are details of the law, not the summary. The greatest commandments summarize these details- love to God- the first 4 commandments and love to man- the last six. This is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:2-3

The rest of the commandments are an explanation of how God wanted His covenant nation of Israel to behave and live according to that Law.

God wants all His people to be part of His covenant which is why He write His laws in the hearts and minds of His people. Hebrews 8:10. One God, one people.

That is exactly why it was so shocking when Paul wrote what he did in Colossians. In Christ, you are no longer beholden to keep the Law and it's observations of feasts, and new moons, and sabbaths and what to eat or drink.

Yes, there are more than one Sabbath in the scriptures, which is why context is so important, yet most people who use this verse never adds the context of Colossians 2:14 or Hebrews 10:1-10 which gives the context of which it is referring to. Obviously not the Sabbath meant for worship as we see that never ending Isaiah 66:23 and why every Sabbath was kept after the cross by the disciples Acts 18:4 and why Jesus expected His people to keep the Sabbath long after the cross Matthew 24:20. You are trying to force something to work that just does not fit.

The Law was a shadow of things to come which Christ completely fulfilled.

The law of sacrifices yes point to Jesus. The law of God that came in a unit of Ten that we cannot add or subtract from Deut 4:2 if you break one you break them all James 2:10-12 is what points out sin and why we need Jesus who became our sacrificial lamb when we break God's law and sin so instead of sacrificing animals, we go directly to Jesus to repent.

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Which its referring to the animal sacrifices

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

As I pointed out now a few times, there are no sacrifices in the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11it God's holy day, the day we are to honor Him Isaiah 58:13 nothing about food or drink in the Sabbath commandment, but the feast days- sabbath(s) is what ended, not the law of God that points out sin.

But again, in Christ, you are free to keep those observances out of love to God because now they can be kept not out of legalism but in a state of actual purity before God.

We should always obey God out of love and keeping His commandments is love to God. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15 1 John 5:3

 

[BobRyan]

. Jesus didn't just say it is lawful to heal on the sabbath but he went for the broadest term he could get and boldly state that it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

The letter of the sabbath is broadly don't work

It is specifically not to do secular work as Is 58:13 points out.

"It is good to do good on the Sabbath" Which He spoke before the cross - before anyone claims anything had been abolished. Even the animal sacrifice laws were in full effect then.

He spoke OT truth before the cross - that is still true to this very day.

It is "Good" for a carpenter to do a good job on the projects given him - but Christ was not doing carpentry on Sabbath and every competent Bible scholar on planet Earth knows it. We cannot conflate the fact that it is good for GOD to do Miracles on Sabbath - with doing a good job as a carpenter on Sabbath. This is not even a little bit confusing.

if they are non-essential use (so we're clear I'm not talking about turning off the heat during winter, or shutting down hospitals), we should be viewing them as violating the letter of the law.

ok -- so no working in the sales department on Sabbath. I think we get that. EVEN though it is good to "do a good job in sales".

 

[BobRyan]

I see this somewhat misleading statement needs to continually be corrected.

Most translations, but, to be fair, only a relative small majority, render this verse as something like "sin is lawlessness"

over a dozen do that - as we both already know.

And there is no such thing as a bible doctrine "if only a dozen bible render the text a certain way you can ignore them". I guess that is obvious.

What is more as the Phillip's translation points out - "lawlessness" includes violation of the Law, transgression of the Law and cannot be construed as specifically excluding that idea.

This is the easy part.

with no specific reference to the Law of Moses.

1 John 5 puts it in specific reference to the LAW of GOD given to Moses and written on the heart when it says
"this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3. The CONTEXT in the book of 1 John for 'The LAW" is clear and obvious to all.

Where "the first commandment with a promise is "Honor your father and mother"' Eph 6:2 -- as NT saints would have understood the term.

Naive readers can get tripped up when others, like you, post a version of this verse that does indeed refer to the Law of Moses or God's Law.

When you claim someone is "Tripped up " by the quote of over a dozen Bible that translate the text consistently then you have an agenda at play.

Also note that the NASB - a translation highly regarded for accuracy - has "sin is lawlessness". As does the Young's Literal Translation.

And Phillip's points out that they are the same thing.. "Lawlessness" cannot be divorced from "transgression of the Law" in a book that sets the context as "the Commandments of God" 1 John 5:3.

As has been pointed out numerous times - and ignored by one or two posters here almost the same number of times.

 

[BobRyan]

Right, coveting would be a good example of living without restraint, out of control.

But it doesn't follow that in 2 John, anomia refers to breaking any law in Moses.

Until you read the actual book of 1 John.

1 John 5:3 "This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" -- pretty obvious that the context in the book is "The Commandments of God".

Pretty obvious in Eph 6:2 that "The first COMMANDMENT with a promise is "honor your father and mother"' - which is how the NT Saints would view that topic. Feel free to join them.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" as applicable to Christians -- still

 

[BobRyan]

What do you mean "slip sideways"?

The subject is the law having a shadow.

Hebrews 10 says the law has a shadow.

And you admit that the text specifically lists "animal sacrifice and offerings".

The "slip sideways" is in the attempts to turn the text as if "Do not take God's name in vain" or any of the TEN Commandments were also shadows done away at the cross.

Surely that is not the hard part of the point in the post? Surely not.

If you change that to only part of the law has a shadow, that's changing scripture.

Your claim that it is "changing scripture" in Heb 10 to notice that the text SPECIFICALLY speaks in context of animal sacrifice and offerings, then you have added a "do not notice the details in the text" restriction that no Bible scholars would agree with. We probably both know that.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" as still applicable for Christians

 

[BobRyan]

Leaf is asking you a perfectly legitimate question: if you are going to leverage the "shadow" motif to defend the end of animal sacrifice, you are forced, by consistency, to conclude that Sabbath, too, was only a shadow.

I have addressed it.

The Lev 23 annual Sabbaths given in animal sacrifice and offerings from their very start - are shadows pointing to the sacrifice of Christ. But the Gen 2:1-3 weekly Sabbath pointed to in Ex 20:11 and kept for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth Is 66:23 is not part of the annual Sabbath's not given until Sinai.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" as still applicable to Christians not just the Bible Sabbath keeping ones

 

[BobRyan]

Actually, no. Paul specifically refers to food and drink and feasts earlier. The concept of sabbath was any day of rest, not just the one on the 7th day. This is plainly evident in the Gospels where the sabbaths are talked about during the crucifixion narrative.

The general term is applied to both groups in Lev 23 but in Col 2 Paul specifically points to the shadow sabbaths. -- those given in sacrifice and offerings - all of which end at the cross as we see in Heb 10:4-12.

Unlike the weekly Sabbath given in Gen 2:1-3 and pointed to in Ex 20:11 and kept for all eternity after the cross by all mankind Is 66:23.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" as still applicable to Christians not just the Bible Sabbath keeping ones

Only John makes a point to call out the sabbath before the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

And??

That is why the majority of the Western Church believes the crucifixion happened on a Friday.

The point on this thread is not to challenge friday crucifixion.

We all agree that in the NT that term "Sabbath" is always a reference to the 7th day of the week when we see someone keeping the Sabbath or in the Synagogue or Temple on Sabbath.

In Col 2 it is the specific context of "shadow Sabbath" which pertains to Sabbath's given in animal sacrifice from their very origin. Where animal sacrifice and offerings end at the cross as shadows of the cross Heb 10:4-12.

They are ignorant about the sabbaths during the prescribed Feast days

IT is unclear to me that all Western Churches are ignorant of Lev 23.

.
And we can be absolutely sure of this because Paul uses the plural "sabbaths", not "the Sabbath". Many English versions neglect to translate it as a plural. However, because it is plural, Paul is not just talking about the weekly Sabbath but also includes all sabbaths in the Feast Days.

Because it is plural it is absolutely a reference to the Lev 23 list of Sabbaths - and because Col 2 specifies it as a shadow (a predictive ceremony pointing to the cross) - it refers to the Sabbaths that end at the cross since they were initially given in animal sacrifice and offerings that Paul says are ended at the cross in Heb 10:4-12

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The general term is applied to both groups in Lev 23 but in Col 2 Paul specifically points to the shadow sabbaths. -- those given in sacrifice and offerings - all of which end at the cross as we see in Heb 10:4-12.

Unlike the weekly Sabbath given in Gen 2:1-3 and pointed to in Ex 20:11 and kept for all eternity after the cross by all mankind Is 66:23.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" as still applicable to Christians not just the Bible Sabbath keeping ones

And??

The point on this thread is not to challenge friday crucifixion.

We all agree that in the NT that term "Sabbath" is always a reference to the 7th day of the week when we see someone keeping the Sabbath or in the Synagogue or Temple on Sabbath.

In Col 2 it is the specific context of "shadow Sabbath" which pertains to Sabbath's given in animal sacrifice from their very origin. Where animal sacrifice and offerings end at the cross as shadows of the cross Heb 10:4-12.

IT is unclear to me that all Western Churches are ignorant of Lev 23.

Because it is plural it is absolutely a reference to the Lev 23 list of Sabbaths - and because Col 2 specifies it as a shadow (a predictive ceremony pointing to the cross) - it refers to the Sabbaths that end at the cross since they were initially given in animal sacrifice and offerings that Paul says are ended at the cross in Heb 10:4-12

"shadow sabbaths"? Huh? Where does Paul even say that. I just read the word "sabbaths" (plural) in the text. There was absolutely no difference of any of the sabbaths that were called out in the Law of Moses. They all were days of rest and all were for holy convocations (assemblies). No difference.

 

[BobRyan]

"shadow sabbaths"? Huh? Where does Paul even say that. I just read the word "sabbaths" (plural) in the text.

There was absolutely no difference of any of the sabbaths that were called out in the Law of Moses.

Yes there is.

The Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath pointed to by Ex 20:11 had no animal sacrifices or offerings - it was before sin. And Ex 20:8-11 - the Sabbath commandment - also has no animal sacrifices or offerings listed for it.

They all were days of rest and all were for holy convocations (assemblies). No difference.

Yes the thing they all have in common is that they are all days of holy convocation - they are all days of rest.

But only one was not given in animal sacrifice and offerings -- all the others point to the cross in their inception in animal sacrifice and offerings.