Should all Christians support Uganda's newest anti LGBTQ+ legislation?

[Whyayeman]

Surely you jest with us! Sodomy is not being gay? When gay guys have sex, oh that isn't sodomy! That is hilarious my friend!

What would you call it then?!

You clearly don't know.

 

[Divide]

You clearly don't know.

Correct, that's why I asked the question.

So if it's not sodomy then what is it? Don't even try to tell me it's brotherly love, lol!

 

[Hazelelponi]

Such laws seem strange and unfair to worldly people and they go against the grain in the modern world. The question of theocracy versus democracy in the West has been resolved with a firm focus on freedom rather than righteousness. In Uganda 84% of people are Christians and many of the others are Muslims so the notion that homosexual activity is sinful is uncontroversial in the country. This video indicated the pressure being exerted on the country from the West but so also how US-based faith groups have supported these efforts in the country.

My first thought was that it was probably hypocritical for Uganda to punish homosexuals and let fornicators and adulterers go free. After all, Uganda has one of the highest HIV infection rates after South Africa. If they claim a conservative Christian rationale for one thing should they not be consistent about this with the other thing? But then I found there is an ABC program motivated by religious concerns to promote abstinence, faithfulness, and condoms ( as plan C) to tackle immorality and STDs.

There is nothing inherently wrong about Christian laws in a country designed to promote righteousness, combat disease (STDs) and honor God. In a country where the base population is so Christian it might even be effective because of the buy-in by the people themselves.

Have we become so used to the notion that individual expression and freedom is the ultimate value that we are missing what God is doing through this lone country? If they are persecuted by Western countries for trying to follow the will of God, however imperfectly, then is that not to their credit?

I was thinking along similar lines myself.

It seems wrong on the face of it to jail or even kill someone just because they are gay, but we see this progression from one thing to the next to the next in our own country.

At first they just wanted not to be harassed and not have their bedrooms policed, which pretty much anyone can agree with.

But it went from that to legalized marriage to adoption to shutting down businesses that didn't bow the knee to young women being subject to sharing a gym locker room with men and public restrooms no longer safe for women because men use the women's room now.

If all they wanted was to be left alone it would be one thing - but it's not what they want. They have an agenda to displace the Christian worldvview in the running of nations and it's clearly seen in these evolutions of "all they want is". All they want is x, until they have it, then they are on to y and z.

It is in the end a war of ideologies and which ideology is going to dominate the nation and the running of it.

In war there's really no rules except, vanquish the enemy before they vanquish you.

When seen in this light, it's not that unreasonable.

On Saturday 264 churches in my local United Methodist conference officially left the denomination because the left wingers won't abide by the rules everyone voted to run their churches by, and are marrying homosexuals as well as ordaining them against church mandates.

Instead of the left leaving, they just ignore the rules and push out the people who are true to their faith.

1/5 of the US United Methodist membership is now gone, pushed out by the LGBTQ lobby inside the church.

It's a war here on every front that only one side is fighting. It's my belief that we aren't supposed to fight such as Uganda is, the wheat is starting to separate from the chaff here and it's kind of beautiful to see in a really weird way...

But can you fault Uganda for fighting? Not really...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Here's a video explaining the situation

Should all Christians support this legislation and support Uganda on this matter?

Sure!!! Why not? ............ it's not as if Christians are supposed to actually follow through with, "loving even their perceived enemies."

Am I RIGHT or am I right ????!!!! We all know that Christianity isn't a religion of compassion, mercy, grace, love and/or understanding. It's one of fear.

No. It's one of Ultra-Judgment, and nothing but judgment.

So, who needs mercy and grace when we have jails and death-penalties that can all too easily be applied, especially to gay people?

 

[Divide]

The Gospels, in my opinion, should trump the Old Testament, else what is the point of Christianity? They have absolutely nothing to say on the subject.

I wasn't sure at first how best to respond to this, because there is no clear instruction to homosexual in scripture. But it has plenty to say on the subject!

Perhaps you should read some more? I'll give you some New Testament stuff since you don't realize that it is one book and are more comfortable with the new testment than the old.

Now in Colssians chapter 3 it gives pretty clear indtruction on how to live the Christian life in verses 1-17.

Instructions for Christian Households (Colossians 3)​

18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting for those who belong to the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly.

20 Children, always obey your parents, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged.

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. 23 Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. 24 Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ.[e] 25 But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites.../NLT

It goes through everyone from the start. Wives, Husbands, Children, even the Maids & Servants. But wait, where is the Homosexual/Sodomites in His list? You made a very interesting point that, the bible doesn't give instructions to homo's...Why did God leave them off this list? WHy is no instruction given to the Homo community? Could it be, that this is something that God does not like? That it is an abomination to him, and after he made such wonderful girls! Could God be insulted by men who choose other men instead of a woman?

Now, me and the other Christians here mean nothing to gays and do not hate them. Rather would rather that they can see these things as truths and throw off the incorrect behavior and lifestyle. What do gays have against women anyway? Do any gays here believe in God? Then all of the Bible must be true. Every word. And this chappter of Colossians 3 is only a part of what is said in scripture about life on earth. So please explain how you find it to be an acceptable activity and reconcile it before God? You guys don't have to worry about us Christians, you need to worry about God! But I'm curious how you reconcile it into an acceptable lifestyle, which btw is arguing for it's moral acceptability, ya'll just don't want to use those terms! Understood!

Mankind was not created for God to serve us. Mankind was created to serve God. If you miss this important truth and begin chanting gay is ok to the world then you have made a personal decision and aren't even looking towards God. And yes, it is sinful. I rest my case.

God gave to man women because, it is good for a man to have a woman. A good Wife is something to be treasured! I know this because I had a good Wife.

 

[Whyayeman]

I wasn't sure at first how best to respond to this, because there is no clear instruction to homosexual in scripture. But it has plenty to say on the subject!

Perhaps you should read some more? I'll give you some New Testament stuff since you don't realize that it is one book and are more comfortable with the new testment than the old.

Now in Colssians chapter 3 it gives pretty clear indtruction on how to live the Christian life in verses 1-17.

Instructions for Christian Households (Colossians 3)​

18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting for those who belong to the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly.

20 Children, always obey your parents, for this pleases the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged.

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. 23 Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. 24 Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ.[e] 25 But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites.../NLT

It goes through everyone from the start. Wives, Husbands, Children, even the Maids & Servants. But wait, where is the Homosexual/Sodomites in His list? You made a very interesting point that, the bible doesn't give instructions to homo's...Why did God leave them off this list? WHy is no instruction given to the Homo community? Could it be, that this is something that God does not like? That it is an abomination to him, and after he made such wonderful girls! Could God be insulted by men who choose other men instead of a woman?

Now, me and the other Christians here mean nothing to gays and do not hate them. Rather would rather that they can see these things as truths and throw off the incorrect behavior and lifestyle. What do gays have against women anyway? Do any gays here believe in God? Then all of the Bible must be true. Every word. And this chappter of Colossians 3 is only a part of what is said in scripture about life on earth. So please explain how you find it to be an acceptable activity and reconcile it before God? You guys don't have to worry about us Christians, you need to worry about God! But I'm curious how you reconcile it into an acceptable lifestyle, which btw is arguing for it's moral acceptability, ya'll just don't want to use those terms! Understood!

Mankind was not created for God to serve us. Mankind was created to serve God. If you miss this important truth and begin chanting gay is ok to the world then you have made a personal decision and aren't even looking towards God. And yes, it is sinful. I rest my case.

God gave to man women because, it is good for a man to have a woman. A good Wife is something to be treasured! I know this because I had a good Wife.

I see that you agree with me that the Gospels have nothing to say on the subject. It always comes down to St Paul. The organ grinder cannot be quoted, so the monkey will have to do. I do not think that is quite good enough. Even so I see no direct reference to homosexuality in the Epistle quoted above. The support for executing homosexuals just is not there.

I am led to suggest that the driving force for the execution of gays comes not from scriptures but from prejudice and hatred. (Good advice for slaves, though!)

 

[Whyayeman]

WHy is no instruction given to the Homo community? Could it be, that this is something that God does not like? That it is an abomination to him, and after he made such wonderful girls!

Have you considered the possibility that there are gay women?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Mankind was not created for God to serve us. Mankind was created to serve God. If you miss this important truth and begin chanting gay is ok to the world then you have made a personal decision and aren't even looking towards God. And yes, it is sinful. I rest my case.

God gave to man women because, it is good for a man to have a woman. A good Wife is something to be treasured! I know this because I had a good Wife.

Right. That's why Matthew 20:28 says what it says ....... (** cough !!! ***)

 

[Divide]

I see that you agree with me that the Gospels have nothing to say on the subject. It always comes down to St Paul. The organ grinder cannot be quoted, so the monkey will have to do. I do not think that is quite good enough. Even so I see no direct reference to homosexuality in the Epistle quoted above. The support for executing homosexuals just is not there.

That's one of the good things about technology and computers and stuff, better translations than the old King James bible are on the streets now, and with the use of free online bible study tools you don't even have to know Hebrew or Greek, you can go right to a free website that is an online bible concordance:

1 Corinthians 6 :: New Living Translation (NLT)

1 Corinthians 6 - When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers*!

www.blueletterbible.org

I took the liberty of linking the exact page of the text in 1 Corinthians 6 for you so you can easily find your way to "Tools" for each word or phrase and see how it is actually intended and translated to english. What could be easier than point and click? I used a NLT version and I like this translation. It's a very up to date translation and more accurate than the KJV translation. If you play around with the site some you will see that it supports many translations so you can compare exactly what was spoken in that meassage between versions of the bible.. The point to all this?

Well it seems as if you get your wish. The translation of NLT speaks directly to Homosexuals and you may read it for yourself...

Monkey has to do indeed! Good one!



1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.../NLT

 

[Divide]

Have you considered the possibility that there are gay women?

Sure I have. Lesbians, Homosexuals, Trans, Bi, Bestiality, all of these are sexual sin and are on the same level before God. He sees it all as sexual deviants.

That's why He gave us women. Duh.

Avoiding sexual sin is right there in the same chapter of 1 Corinthians 6
12 You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.

15 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! 16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”[d] 17 But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.

18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.../NLT

We are born into this flesh body but our task on earth precluding spread the gospel is to elevate our spirit above our flesh body and seek the Almighty God, Creator od everything. Can you find your way back? You woke up on earth with amnesia to your purpose, like a lost wanderer.

And Morpheous was right, it is the world which has been pulled over your eyes.

 

[Whyayeman]

That's why He gave us women. Duh.

You are taking a very male view, just like Paul! Please don't bother with any more quotations (unless they are from the Gospels). I am familiar with scripture.

Women do not commit sodomy. Should they be executed - and if so for what sin? Just for being homosexual? I am pretty sure the gospels won't help there either - or the whole of the rest of the Bible, in whatever translation.

 

[Divide]

Right. That's why Matthew 20:28 says what it says ....... (** cough !!! ***)

Whoosh! I'm sorry, let me put that a different way. Your showing how little you actually read and meditate on the scriptures you know, lol.

And we were all there once, some still are. Geez, it takes 50 years on this planet to even get half a clue of the truth. SO, Matthew 20:28 you say?

28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”.../NLT

What you are missing is that, God does this for us out of choice and Love for us! He wants you to live, but He does promise to execute all those who choose to go their own way by throwing them into the lake of fire. So there is a consequence to sin. Any sin, not just sexual sin.

I said we were created to serve God and to bring Him glory. But he dropped us into a university school here on earth, and you either graduate or you don't! We must obey God and His commandments. And if we do then we will be rewarded some day beyond anything we can imagine. God is so good to us that it is beyond our comprehension but if you never pay any attention to Him...I don't envy those folks for sure.

And since we're talking about sexual sin in particular, let's understand that everything on this earth in the natural realm is a shadow of things to come. So that's why God gave us Women to be our counterparts and He gave us Marriage Covenants to teach us about Love, Honor, Integrity, Compassion, all of the things which make up a good marriage. Because that is the closeness and type of unconditional love relationship that He wants to share with us. He led by example of having a helpful kind heart by helping everyone when He walked the earth as Jesus. He even washed His Disciples feet! The University of Brotherly Love on earth. He says in Deuteronomy 30

15 “Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster. 16 For I command you this day to love the Lord your God and to keep his commands, decrees, and regulations by walking in his ways. If you do this, you will live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you and the land you are about to enter and occupy.../NLT

and this is a shadow of things to come. In that land that we will enter and occupy (Heaven) called New Jerusalem in fact.

What a deal! Who wouldn't want to learn the truth and find our real Family and God?! I don't want to die so I best behave. Or I may be executed for it, there's that fear of God thing again. It's whole hog or none! He tells us in His book to us, that if we can find it in our heart to be obediant to Him and not live out our own will here on earth but to submit our lives and will unto Him. None of us have lived a good life free from the demonic oppression and sin. I apologize but it is for this very reason that I personally feel like Eww I don't want to get any sexual sin on me, Ewww! I can't I want to live. I have only barely scratched the surface and it is written, when we draw close to God, then God draws closer to us. He has Blessed me almost too many times to count! And I merely scratch the surface...

It would be too embarassing to have to stand before the Lord one day and give Him an answer to, did you read my book? Wow. So I did and do. Not enough probably! The Holy Spirit speaks to you when you read and points things out to you. It's like looking into a mirror. But to the topic, God gave men Government because they would need laws if they were not seeking God, and He still loved us so gave us Government and laws, and we are expected to obey them or risk consequences. And rightly so, but supposedly all of mans laws are based on God's instructions to man, thou shalt not steal, murder, fornicate, adulterate, drunkard, glutton, all those things.

And it just so happens that it used to be a capital offense in the US and now Uganda has brought back the death penalty for sodomites and predators. As far as can tell, scripture does have quite a bit to say about it and essentially says, and they shall be put to death...So Uganda's new law does not disagree with scripture. Sorry if anyone finds that offensive, but it's not my rules! That's Uganda, and God! I'll take God's word for it to stick with women! And confined to within Marriage.

 

[Divide]

Women do not commit sodomy. Should they be executed - and if so for what sin? Just for being homosexual? I am pretty sure the gospels won't help there either - or the whole of the rest of the Bible, in whatever translation.

How do you know? There's plenty of womens toys on the market. I would not want to be the one to execute two women for committing sexual sin and refusing to obey His command to be fruitful and multiply. That that would take place between two women is not for me to judge for it is not a sin against me, but a sin against God. Between them and God. I *think* God don't like either based on the word of God but is not for me to judge.

The sin is in choosing your own way to life your life without God's guidance and instructions. The turning the back to God. God will let you make your own choice how you live your life...but there will be nothing to look forward to if you exclude God from your life. The real life for humankind is after the school is over. These are Final Exams Brother! The end times...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Whoosh! I'm sorry, let me put that a different way. Your showing how little you actually read and meditate on the scriptures you know, lol.

And we were all there once, some still are. Geez, it takes 50 years on this planet to even get half a clue of the truth. SO, Matthew 20:28 you say?

28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”.../NLT

What you are missing is that, God does this for us out of choice and Love for us! He wants you to live, but He does promise to execute all those who choose to go their own way by throwing them into the lake of fire. So there is a consequence to sin. Any sin, not just sexual sin.

I said we were created to serve God and to bring Him glory. But he dropped us into a university school here on earth, and you either graduate or you don't! We must obey God and His commandments. And if we do then we will be rewarded some day beyond anything we can imagine. God is so good to us that it is beyond our comprehension but if you never pay any attention to Him...I don't envy those folks for sure.

And since we're talking about sexual sin in particular, let's understand that everything on this earth in the natural realm is a shadow of things to come. So that's why God gave us Women to be our counterparts and He gave us Marriage Covenants to teach us about Love, Honor, Integrity, Compassion, all of the things which make up a good marriage. Because that is the closeness and type of unconditional love relationship that He wants to share with us. He led by example of having a helpful kind heart by helping everyone when He walked the earth as Jesus. He even washed His Disciples feet! The University of Brotherly Love on earth. He says in Deuteronomy 30

15 “Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster. 16 For I command you this day to love the Lord your God and to keep his commands, decrees, and regulations by walking in his ways. If you do this, you will live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you and the land you are about to enter and occupy.../NLT

and this is a shadow of things to come. In that land that we will enter and occupy (Heaven) called New Jerusalem in fact.

What a deal! Who wouldn't want to learn the truth and find our real Family and God?! I don't want to die so I best behave. Or I may be executed for it, there's that fear of God thing again. It's whole hog or none! He tells us in His book to us, that if we can find it in our heart to be obediant to Him and not live out our own will here on earth but to submit our lives and will unto Him. None of us have lived a good life free from the demonic oppression and sin. I apologize but it is for this very reason that I personally feel like Eww I don't want to get any sexual sin on me, Ewww! I can't I want to live. I have only barely scratched the surface and it is written, when we draw close to God, then God draws closer to us. He has Blessed me almost too many times to count! And I merely scratch the surface...

It would be too embarassing to have to stand before the Lord one day and give Him an answer to, did you read my book? Wow. So I did and do. Not enough probably! The Holy Spirit speaks to you when you read and points things out to you. It's like looking into a mirror. But to the topic, God gave men Government because they would need laws if they were not seeking God, and He still loved us so gave us Government and laws, and we are expected to obey them or risk consequences. And rightly so, but supposedly all of mans laws are based on God's instructions to man, thou shalt not steal, murder, fornicate, adulterate, drunkard, glutton, all those things.

And it just so happens that it used to be a capital offense in the US and now Uganda has brought back the death penalty for sodomites and predators. As far as can tell, scripture does have quite a bit to say about it and essentially says, and they shall be put to death...So Uganda's new law does not disagree with scripture. Sorry if anyone finds that offensive, but it's not my rules! That's Uganda, and God! I'll take God's word for it to stick with women! And confined to within Marriage.

Thanks for the summary execution of what it is you "think" I was saying or implying ... Maybe keep in mind that I never denied the point that people need to repent of their sins.

But even so, I'll keep your style of 2 dimensional response in mind for the future.

The point in THIS thread is that from a Christian perspective, I think it's Uganda is more or less WRONG HEADED for cracking down as it is on persons with an LGBTQ orientation.

 

[Divide]

The point in THIS thread is that from a Christian perspective, I think it's Uganda is more or less WRONG HEADED for cracking down as it is on persons with an LGBTQ orientation.

They probably will.

 

[Hans Blaster]

At first they just wanted not to be harassed and not have their bedrooms policed, which pretty much anyone can agree with.

But certainly not "pretty much everyone". It was only 20 years ago in Lawrence v Texas (2003) that the US Supreme Court invalidated Texas' "bedroom policing" law. No one less that Associate Justice Clarence Thomas wrote in his concurring opinion in the Dobbs (2022) decision that Lawrence v Texas was one of the old rulings that should be revisited now that Roe v Wade (1973) was overturned.

So not quite mostly everyone.

 

[Hazelelponi]

But certainly not "pretty much everyone". It was only 20 years ago in Lawrence v Texas (2003) that the US Supreme Court invalidated Texas' "bedroom policing" law. No one less that Associate Justice Clarence Thomas wrote in his concurring opinion in the Dobbs (2022) decision that Lawrence v Texas was one of the old rulings that should be revisited now that Roe v Wade (1973) was overturned.

So not quite mostly everyone.

I've never personally met anyone in my life, in the USA who practiced Christianity or was just secular, who felt the government should concern themselves with who is sleeping with whom...

Is that better?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I've never personally met anyone in my life, in the USA who practiced Christianity or was just secular, who felt the government should concern themselves with who is sleeping with whom...

Is that better?

I'd avoid those people too. Unfortunately they are not few enough in number.

 

[All Englands Skies]

I don't have to accept gays. They have nothing with me. And you are as you noticed on a Christian site so what would you expect? Diversified christians? That is no Christian at all. But the people who know Christ are not cut from the same corporate church that you wish I would join. Except, I know it is wrong and sinful. So I can not become diversified in sexuality! And so I am able to see the wisdom in Ugandas decision and support them. Being a homosexual used to be a Capital crime in the USA and I would vote for that to pass if it came on the ballot to bring it back.

I remember the days when one was able to hitchhike and not get picked up by gays who wanted something. Man, those were the good ol days!

But your confusion with me stems from, I agree with Uganda so I must want to kill gays myself...
Ok listen, that passing of that law to kill gays was a decision by the State. I am not the state. Murder is a Capital crime also and I don't want to go out and aprehend murderers and put them to death. Those are State issues, laws like that. I am not the State. I am the people. So there is certainly no connection between me the people and the State passing laws against unlawful activities.

And I'm not beating on the gays. What you have in me, is a Heterosexual perspective. Not condemning or killing people myself but voicing a truely heterosexual perspective. I do not wear my sexuality on my shirt sleeve, so why do the gays do this? If the gays went back into the closet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm not attacking anyone or doing anyone wrong by voicing my opinion, so if you take offense to my perspective then that begs the question...why are gays opening so many gay threads on the christian forums?What is the gay agenda? If offended you might be on the wrong site! If you are seeking the Lord and have a repentant heart and want to get away from sin...then we can help you.

So you don't get your hands dirty yourself I see. You're okay with the killing of gay people as long as someone else is "pulling the trigger".

 

[Whyayeman]

The sin is in choosing your own way to life your life without God's guidance and instructions. The turning the back to God. God will let you make your own choice how you live your life...but there will be nothing to look forward to if you exclude God from your life. The real life for humankind is after the school is over. These are Final Exams Brother! The end times...

God will let you make your own choice how you live your life...

Except in Uganda! There choosing your own way of life could lead to the rope. That part will happen before the school bell rings. And this meets with enthusiastic approval.