In wake of school shooting, Tennessee legislature acts to protect innocent and vulnerable gun manufacturers and dealers

[Wings like Eagles]

Amy had something to say to congress about the scary looking firearms.

 

[rambot]

Amy had something to say to congress about the scary looking firearms.

Sorry, I don't by the "law abiding gun owner" line as a defense mechanism. EVERYONE who owns a gun is a law abiding gun owner up until they commit a crime.

Sensible, sound legislation cannot and should not be put down because the "law abiding gun owner" may have to "do one thing they don't want to". That's not rational. "Law Abiding gun owners" should recognize that there ARE crimes or opportunity, passion and without malice aforethought and those individuals having easy access to guns IS a problem.

So what do "law abiding gun owners" AS A WHOLE, recommend because the "arm everyone" tactic, is stupid.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

yyyyyeah...okay.... I guess KINDA it was trending down before hand but I will CERTAINLY grant that after the ban was lifted the homocide rate continues to drop.

Honestly though, to me it doesn't really make sense to even really tie assault rifles to EVERY homocide. I think the assault rifle conversation should be held EXCLUSIVELY to data that compare multiple fatalities and not homocides as a whole given (though this is just a personal theory) most homocides are perpetrated with handguns.

And yes, I am 100% on board with poverty mitigation strategies of ANY kind, especially to help deal with rising violence.

Plus, given what we know about the massive scope of those firearms that are already in private hands, for a political entity to suggest that the AWB was a driving factor is already suspect.

Even during the time of the assault weapons ban, there were already millions of those types of weapons in circulation (as 44% of the then 277 million US population were gun owners), no confiscation efforts (as everyone was grandfathered in for the most part), and it's not as if those guns magically stopped functioning.

I've even said in other threads that while we need certain gun control measures to be implemented, don't expect any meaningful changes in the numbers for at least a decade or two.

The idea that a law that took effect in 1995 would have any sort of meaningful impact on the numbers by 1999 is a suspect claim IMO.

With regards to multiple fatalities in what we think of as a "high profile mass shooting" in modern times, that was virginia tech, and was done with 2 handguns (and involved 33 deaths)

Unless they get at the underlying causes, an AWB is basically...well...I can't use the expression here on CF...because people have proven that they can be quite lethal with handguns.

I'm much more concerned with answering the question "who's suitable to own a firearm and who's not" than I am targeting certain gun types. A sane, trained, and vetted person with an AR15 scares me a lot less than unstable person with a Glock.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Sorry, I don't by the "law abiding gun owner" line as a defense mechanism. EVERYONE who owns a gun is a law abiding gun owner up until they commit a crime.

It should be noted as well that "law abiding" at the time of a background check in the US is a pretty weak standard.

"Never committed a felony"
"Never been involuntarily committed to a mental institution"
"Doesn't currently have any active restraining orders against them"

There's a wide gap between people who fit that very basic criteria, and people who are sane, educated, and competent enough to be a gun owner.

As we've seen in recent events...there's plenty of mentally unstable people who haven't committed a crime (yet) and who clearly aren't sane enough to own a gun, but have been able to pass the background check.

 

[High Fidelity]

Almost every major study on the issue has found that Americans use their firearms in self-defense between 500,000 and 3 million times annually

Second Amendment a Blessing, Not a “Curse,” in End-of-Year Examples of Defensive Gun Use

The editorial board of a major New Jersey newspaper started the year off with an anti-Second Amendment screed, decrying the right to keep and bear arms as a “curse” perpetuated by a “fanatical” interpretation created by the Supreme Court in 2008.

www.heritage.org

I mean, that’s pretty obviously going to be the reality when they’re living in a society where access to firearms is so widespread.

Reducing the likelihood for needing them in the first place would reduce the necessity of using them as well.

It would be like a stove that spontaneously combusts and needing to be extinguished regularly. That isn’t an argument in favour of fire extinguishers, it’s an argument to get a new stove and reduce the risk of needing the fire extinguisher in the first place.

 

[FenderTL5]

Amy had something to say to congress about the scary looking firearms.

Anyone who touts or tries to promote the concept that the features on "assault" weapons such as "barrel shrouds" or "pistol grips" are only there for aesthetics is lacking integrity and credibility. Those features have a purpose beyond appearance.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Anyone who touts or tries to promote the concept that the features on "assault" weapons such as "barrel shrouds" or "pistol grips" are only there for aesthetics is lacking integrity and credibility. Those features have a purpose beyond appearance.

Wow - how many times have you been called before congress as an expert in firearms?

 

[rambot]

It should be noted as well that "law abiding" at the time of a background check in the US is a pretty weak standard.

"Never committed a felony"
"Never been involuntarily committed to a mental institution"
"Doesn't currently have any active restraining orders against them"

There's a wide gap between people who fit that very basic criteria, and people who are sane, educated, and competent enough to be a gun owner.

As we've seen in recent events...there's plenty of mentally unstable people who haven't committed a crime (yet) and who clearly aren't sane enough to own a gun, but have been able to pass the background check.

Call me crazy but I think that if you showed up in Dallas waiting for john f Kennedy to raise from the dead (really? Right where he was shot??) You do not maintain the mental fitness requird for a gun.

I bet most of them could legally have a gun.

 

[Nithavela]

Amy Swearer has some solutions but does not meet the narrative, so the killing continue.​

Who's this "Amy" character? Have I missed an important story arc?

 

[FireDragon76]

Amy Swearer has some solutions but does not meet the narrative, so the killing continue.​

Security guards in schools aren't a serious alternative to regulating the sale of assault weapons.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

What some call assault weapons (scary looking firearms) are already regulated by the NFA, has nothing to do with safety, just another tax.
I think we should repeal the NFA and be able to buy the same weapons our President armed the Taliban with.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Who's this "Amy" character? Have I missed an important story arc?

Amy Swearer

Amy Swearer is a Senior Legal Fellow in the Edwin Meese III Center for Legal and Judicial Studies, where her areas of focus include the Second Amendment, overcriminalization, school safety, and mental health policy.

www.heritage.org

 

[NxNW]

I think we should repeal the NFA and be able to buy the same weapons our President armed the Taliban with.

What weapons did Trump arm the Taliban with?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Anyone who touts or tries to promote the concept that the features on "assault" weapons such as "barrel shrouds" or "pistol grips" are only there for aesthetics is lacking integrity and credibility. Those features have a purpose beyond appearance.

Every part/feature on a gun has a purpose. However, I don't know that fixating on those features is a good use of effort in the grand scheme of things.

Apart from extended magazines, the rest of them basically make the gun more stable and the shooter more accurate.

So fixating on those types of things doesn't really address much of the root problem and would equate to sinking a bunch of money, time, and legislative efforts into making a slightly less accurate school shooter who has to reload 3 times instead of 2.

Like for instance, if a person was seriously concerned about 500hp cars being way to fast on the road (and thus dangerous), putting the emphasis on some performance part on there (that if removed, would only drop it down to 450hp) would be the metaphorical "trying to address the invasive tree by only pruning the branches".

What we really need is better upstream vetting for gun ownership.


But all that aside, while you're right that many of those attachments do have a functional purpose, you can't completely discredit the notion of the "visual component". In many cases, the reason why gun enthusiasts want them (and why people who don't like guns are against them) is because of the way they look.

For instance:

This is a civilian version of an MP5 (fires a pistol cartridge)

It's got a "faux suppressor" on it. Gun enthusiasts may want one of these because it "looks cool...like something I saw in a movie", people who don't like guns would probably want it restricted because it "looks scary...like something I saw in a movie"

 

[Wings like Eagles]

What weapons did Trump arm the Taliban with?

From a trusted source, our current President Biden ...... we will probably be seeing some of these weapons coming across our open southern border soon, if they have not already.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html

 

[Wings like Eagles]

For those who really want to understand different tools to help stop school shootings vs spouting the same ineffective gun control garbage:

Four Underused Tools to Stop School Shootings - Just Facts

Just Facts Daily is a project of Just Facts, a nonprofit institute dedicated to publishing verifiable facts about public policy.

www.justfactsdaily.com

 

[NxNW]

From a trusted source, our current President Biden ...... we will probably be seeing some of these weapons coming across our open southern border soon, if they have not already.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html

The article doesn't support that claim.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

The article doesn't support that claim.

Correct - I added the bit on about the open southern border and firearms coming in that way. Fast and Furious operation a few years back still on my mind.

 

[Nithavela]

Amy Swearer

Amy Swearer is a Senior Legal Fellow in the Edwin Meese III Center for Legal and Judicial Studies, where her areas of focus include the Second Amendment, overcriminalization, school safety, and mental health policy.

www.heritage.org

Uhu

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Uhu

I have never used it but looks like a good glue, how does that fit into the discussion?

UHU | Product overview,

www.uhu.com