Is Calvinism a heresy?

[maxamir]

God is Sovereign and People are saved the way the Word of God says.

Although man has fallen and all have sinned, The wages of sin is death and thus they need a savior. God is the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.​

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There is no scripture that says men are unable to respond to the Gospel message without God first changing their nature. In contrast, when speaking to OT Jews in Ezekiel 18:30-32, God promises to change the hearts of those who repent. So you have it backwards.

Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

You error in your understanding of grace as Christ died for all men (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6), and you error by turning faith into a work. Jesus tells us directly who is saved in Mark 16:15-16. He says if you believe the Gospel and are baptized you will be saved. If someone convinced of the Gospel message seeks eternal life by claiming the promise by believing the Gospel message and being baptized, Jesus says they are saved but you say they are not because they are trying to justify themselves by work. You contradict Jesus on this matter - end of story.

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned​

I don't know what your point is in all the above. Man's free will does not shape external circumstances - such as Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Balaam had similar supernatural experiences to Paul and yet is reprobate (Jude 11-13). Concerning John 15:5, remember Jesus said He also could do nothing by Himself in John 5:19.

Christ loves people and came to save those who freely believe (John 3:14-16). You have shown that you don't agree with Mark 16:15-16 - so you should reconsider who is denying the Gospel.

You have yet to define how God is sovereign in salvation when you deny Him the ability to save whom He wills to save and In doing so you actually deny the Lord (Sovereign Ruler) Jesus (God Who Saves) Christ (Annointed Prophet, Priest and King).

Please tell me that you are not a universalist because your interpretation of 1 Tim 4:10 sounds like it. God is indeed the Saviour of all people throughout the world but specifically those who believe and not everyone.

Please remember that the word all, does not mean all, all the time and neither does the word world, mean every single person in the world all the time.

If Christ died for every single person, then every single person must be saved, otherwise God could be accused of double jeopardy in punishing sin twice to those who are cast into Hell. Christ came to save His people from their sin (Mat 1:21) who are His sheep He loves and not the goats He hates.

Here are eighteen Scripture texts on God’s hatred of the reprobate:

And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them (Lev. 20:23).
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you (Lev. 26:30).

For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee (Deut. 18:12).

For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God (Deut. 25:16).

And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters (Deut. 32:19).

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man (Ps. 5:5-6).

For the wicked boasteth of his heart’s desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth (Ps. 10:3).

The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth (Ps. 11:5).

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren (Prov. 6:16-19).

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished (Prov. 16:4-5).

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord (Prov. 17:15).

The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the Lord shall fall therein (Prov. 22:14).

Behold, ye [i.e., idols] are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you (Isa. 41:24).

Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it (Jer. 12:8).

All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house (Hos. 9:15).

Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me (Zech. 11:8).

I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever. And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel (Mal. 1:2-5).

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (Rom. 9:13).

Christ Jesus is the Lawgiver, being Ex Lex, above the law and not subject to the law that was given to man but came into this world under the law in order to become a curse for His people (Gal 3:10, 13) so that He could save them from that curse.

Christ knows all those wo are His and loves His own (John 13:1) but He can not love those He knows are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction (Rom 9:22). God's people are commanded to love all people including their enemies because Christ demonstrated such love to them who were once His enemies (Col 1:21) and the greatest way this can be done, besides laying down our lives for others is to proclaim the Gospel to all.

 

[John Mullally]

God's children know they are His elect, because they have experienced God's grace in their regeneration. God does the work of regeneration apart from our own input, we notice the change in our hearts as He replaces the love of sin with a desire to love and serve Him instead. That's not something that we caused by our own will or desire, as we know we're all born with a desire to serve our fleshy desires. My question is, what would cause a person who lives to fulfill his sinful desire, suddenly change his mind and serve God instead.

What you are talking about is purely subjective. There are non-Christians who believe in God and will make the same types of claims. Non-Calvinist Evangelicals can also point to promises in the word of God. The word of God is a better starting point than our feelings.

We are discussing the differing views regarding salvation here, it ultimately comes down to the question of how a person is saved. Is it a joint effort between the lost sinner and God, or is it all of God. These two opposing views have divided the Church from the beginning, the divide didn't begin with Calvin or Arminius so we can't put labels on professing believers.

Many will argue that the division started with influential Augustus who was a convert from Gnosticism and introduced some of that into Christianity.

The Bible interprets the Bible, so we can't just pluck out verses out of their intended context and arrange them in a way which seems to support our views. we need to deal with the whole counsel of God as it is written. If we apply our own interpretation when the text, doesn't support our predetermined view, then we will surely end up embracing a false doctrine.

Yes. Put forth a short list of Calvinists proof texts, and I will strive to give an answer - that is what I have been doing. Calvinism should have been a non-starter just based upon 1 Timothy 2:4. How can God desire all people to be saved while predestinating any to reprobation as Calvin claims?

 

[John Mullally]

You have yet to define how God is sovereign in salvation when you deny Him the ability to save whom He wills to save and In doing so you actually deny the Lord (Sovereign Ruler) Jesus (God Who Saves) Christ (Annointed Prophet, Priest and King).

Please tell me that you are not a universalist because your interpretation of 1 Tim 4:10 sounds like it. God is indeed the Saviour of all people throughout the world but specifically those who believe and not everyone.

Please remember that the word all, does not mean all, all the time and neither does the word world, mean every single person in the world all the time.

If Christ died for every single person, then every single person must be saved, otherwise God could be accused of double jeopardy in punishing sin twice to those who are cast into Hell. Christ came to save His people from their sin (Mat 1:21) who are His sheep He loves and not the goats He hates.

Here are eighteen Scripture texts on God’s hatred of the reprobate:

Calvinism is destroyed by the many scripture passages that reference"all people" (NIV) in the Epistles, So it is no surprise that Calvinists argue that many of the gracious "all people" and "world" references in the NT do not mean "all people". The Epistle writers wrote to believers and used terms translated to "you", "we", and "us" when talking about fellow believers. Unless there is something in the surrounding context, the terms translated to "world", and "all people (NIV)" mean all people. Note there are a few references to "world" that means Satan's kingdom (such as Ephesians 2:2) - which is obvious from context. For example, many Calvinists say that the "all people" in 1 Timothy 2:4 means "all types of people". But there is nothing in the surrounding verses that indicate Paul is contrasting different types of people. In addition the "all people" in 1 Timothy 2:1 must be same all people in 1 Timothy 2:4, but how does it make sense that Paul is commanding believers to pray for all kinds of people in 1 Timothy 2:1? Paul wants believers to pray for all those in authority in 1 Timothy 2:2.

God hates the sin (which sends people to hell), but not the sinner. This is evidenced by His desire that all sinners repent and live.

Ezekiel 18;30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

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Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

As you should know by now, non-Calvinist Evangelicals see salvation as conditioned on faith (john 3:14-15) - thus they view that many for who Christ died will not be saved. Thus we view Salvation like a check that is cashed by faith. Another analogy: You can lead a horse to water (provision), but you can't make him drink (receive provision).

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[maxamir]

From scripture, how does a Calvinist know he is God's child? Its a confidence game. As a non-Calvinist, I can take God at his word on the matter. You seem to think that God has reserved faith and repentance for his favorites you term the elect. Acts 10:34-35 says that God show no partiality.

Paul's exhortations are intended to encourage. The encouragement is balanced with very real warnings such as 1 Corinthians 9:27 in order to avoid laxity.

Second Timothy was the last letter from Paul before he was martyred.

A person who trusts in God's sovereign, eternal and particular grace knows he has become a child of God because God has changed their heart of stone into a heart of flesh and granted them repentance and faith to believe on the person and work of Christ, so that before they used to hate God and love sin but now they love God and hate sin. They owe it all to His grace alone and the Holy Spirit confirms they are indeed His children (Rom 8:16).

There are many Christ warned who believed and even done great things in His name but they trusted in who they were and what they did and not in Christ and His righteousness, so that Christ said He did not know them, which means He had no intimacy with them (Mat 7:21-23). Those who trust in their free will and have faith in their faith have no assurance that Christ will save them.

God is not a respecter of persons because we are all equally cursed and in the same boat deserving only His just wrath. Men are to fear God because He is indeed a discriminating God who has mercy on whom He wills and hardens whom He wills (Rom 9:18). People are to be warned that if they die in their sin, then they will prove themselves to be reprobates, eternally and justly hated by God.

I am sure that there will be many proud Calvinists in Hell because to be a true Calvinist is to have absolutely no boasting in self and recognise that all glory belongs to Christ alone.

God is perfect and demands perfection (Mat 5:48) which is impossible for man to do (Mark 10:25-26) , and that is why Christ came to rescue His people, by way of His perfect, substitutionary, atoning sacrifice and resurrection from the dead to grant them the forgiveness of sins and His perfect righteousness in their resurrection from their spiritual death to become His willing holy servants, faithfully bearing His image and created for good works, which God prepared beforehand that they should walk in them. (Eph 2:10).

Since you continue to absolutely ignore the biblical doctrine of predestination, please tell me how any prophesy can be fulfilled if man's and in turn the world's destiny can be controlled by man's supposed free will?

 

[maxamir]

God hates the sin (which sends people to hell), but not the sinner. This ie evidenced by His desire that the sinner repent and live.

Ezekiel 18;30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

Sin is not just what people do but what people are. Men sin because they are cursed sinners addicted to evil, and the many verses I previously posted, point to a holy God not just hating sin but sinners themselves.

Here's only a couple of verses which you need to deal with.

Psa 5:5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.

Psa 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

God hates the sin of His elect so much that He killed His only Son to pay the price for them who could not pay it themselves and has promised that He shall return to judge the sin of those who remain alive and are not His people.

Act 17:31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

2Th 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

 

[John Mullally]

A person who trusts in God's sovereign, eternal and particular grace knows he has become a child of God because God has changed their heart of stone into a heart of flesh and granted them repentance and faith to believe on the person and work of Christ, so that before they used to hate God and love sin but now they love God and hate sin. They owe it all to His grace alone and the Holy Spirit confirms they are indeed His children (Rom 8:16).

Where is particular grace or irresistible grace mentioned in the Bible? Why invent new terms?

What is the threshold on sinning? How much sinning indicates you are not a child of God? What does it take for one to know God has changed your heart? People trying to be saved by works also hate sin.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.​

 

[John Mullally]

Sin is not just what people do but what people are. Men sin because they are cursed sinners addicted to evil, and the many verses I previously posted, point to a holy God not just hating sin but sinners themselves.

Jesus said "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son" - He did not say for God so loved the elect or for God so loved the righteous, Godly, humble, or those who believe in particular grace. Sin will be judged, But God loves all and would rather sinners repent and live - see post 723. At Calvary, Jesus made provision for people to have their sins forgiven and be saved - that is a part of the message of the Gospel.

 

[maxamir]

Where is particular grace or irresistible grace mentioned in the Bible? Why invent new terms?

What is the threshold on sinning? How much sinning indicates you are not a child of God? What does it take for one to know God has changed your heart? People trying to be saved by works also hate sin.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.​

No one is born a child of God unless they are born again because everyone is born a child of the devil and can not help but sin. Those who by grace alone are made children of God are set free from the condemnation and guilt of sin, are being set free from the power of sin and will soon be set free from the presence of sin. They know that God has changed their heart because they no longer love the sin they used to live for and wilfully lay down their lives daily for Him who loved them and gave His life for them.

The word grace is mentioned 137 times in my Bible and not once is it applied to those who are not God's children.

Many biblical verses are given below that prove the Doctrines of Grace, but you still fail to address any of them.

True doctrine can be discerned by that which gives most glory to God.

 

[maxamir]

Jesus said "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son" - He did not say for God so loved the elect or for God so loved the righteous, Godly, humble, or those who believe in particular grace. Sin will be judged, But God loves all and would rather sinners repent and live - see post 723. At Calvary, Jesus made provision for people to have their sins forgiven and be saved - that is a part of the message of the Gospel.

John 3:16 in context was said to Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, who though being the teacher of Israel did not know the truth of God having to regenerate a person in order for them to see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3) as made plain in Ezekiel 36:26-27 and was blinded like most of Israel to the truth of the promise given to Abraham, that all nations would be blessed through his promised seed which was Christ, who like the serpent that Moses lifted in the wilderness as a picture of sin that the people looked to, to be healed, in like manner had God given His only Son who knew no sin to become sin, not just for the one nation of Israel but for His believing people from all over the world, whom He loves and has secured their salvation, so that they will not perish, but instead have everlasting life.

Scripture interprets Scripture and John 3:16 needs to be taken into its immediate and overall context in Scripture.

 

[John Mullally]

No one is born a child of God unless they are born again because everyone is born a child of the devil and can not help but sin. Those who by grace alone are made children of God are set free from the condemnation and guilt of sin, are being set free from the power of sin and will soon be set free form the presence of sin. They know that God has changed their heart because they no longer love the sin they used to live for and wilfully lay down their lives daily for Him who loved them and gave His life for them.

The word grace is mentioned 137 times in my Bible and not once is it applied to those who are not God's children.

Many biblical verses are given below that prove the Doctrines of Grace, but you still fail to address any of them.

In Calvinism, everyone is born a “total hater of God,” and so when someone (according to Calvinism) becomes a believer, it’s because God did something against their will—transforming their will—in order to unilaterally change their mind for them so that they would be made to “freely” receive Him. If this pre-faith regeneration does exist, I would expect it to be plainly stated in scripture that regeneration is pre-faith as that would be more important than faith as per Calvinism it enables faith. And if this irresistible pre-faith regeneration occurs before conversion, Jesus would not have had to personally confront Saul of Tarsus along the road to Damascus, strike him blind, and wait until Ananias prayed over him.

In Ephesians 1:13, we see the progression for the one being saved as (1) hearing the Gospel message, (2) believing the Gospel message, and (3) as a result being sealed In Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. There is nothing about about a regeneration preceding being marked In Him. I submit that the regeneration occurs when he is sealed In Him.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,​

Many biblical verses are given below that prove the Doctrines of Grace, but you still fail to address any of them.
True doctrine can be discerned by that which gives most glory to God.

True doctrine is backed by scripture. I am not going through your two-second effort to cut and paste scriptures on the 5 points of TULIP other than to provide a couple of internet links that refute TULIP Arguments against Calvinism and Predestination, Tulip - the Five Points of Calvinism Refuted

John 3:16 in context was said to Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, who though being the teacher of Israel did not know the truth of God having to regenerate a person in order for them to see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3) as made plain in Ezekiel 36:26-27 and was blinded like most of Israel to the truth of the promise given to Abraham, that all nations would be blessed through his promised seed which was Christ, who like the serpent that Moses lifted in the wilderness as a picture of sin that the people looked to, to be healed, in like manner had God given His only Son who knew no sin to become sin, not just for the one nation of Israel but for His believing people from all over the world, whom He loves and has secured their salvation, so that they will not perish, but instead have everlasting life.

Scripture interprets Scripture and John 3:16 needs to be taken into its immediate and overall context in Scripture.

You are going to have to do more than neuter John 3:16 as there is other evidence that God loves all humanity God is love (1 John 4:8). Jesus commands us to love our human enemies. Jesus would be a hypocrite if He is commanding us to love those He hates. Christ died for all mankind (1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 2:6) - there is no greater love. When we were enemies Christ died for us (Romans 5:10). Christ's atonement presents grace to all mankind - as that grace is received through faith (John 3:14-15). God desires all people to be saved through repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, Acts 2:38), but some chose not to repent.

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [b]authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and [c]reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,​

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.​

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.​

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Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

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Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

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Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

When Moses lifted up the brass serpent on a pole, who was healed? Those who looked upon the serpent believing the promise. When Christ was lifted on the Cross, who was saved? Those who look upon Christ's atonement in faith.

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[maxamir]

In Calvinism, everyone is born a “total hater of God,” and so when someone (according to Calvinism) becomes a believer, it’s because God did something against their will—transforming their will—in order to unilaterally change their mind for them so that they would be made to “freely” receive Him. If this pre-faith regeneration does exist, I would expect it to be plainly stated in scripture that regeneration is pre-faith as that would be more important than faith as per Calvinism it enables faith. And if this irresistible pre-faith regeneration occurs before conversion, Jesus would not have had to personally confront Saul of Tarsus along the road to Damascus, strike him blind, and wait until Ananias prayed over him.

In Ephesians 1:13, we see the progression for the one being saved as (1) hearing the Gospel message, (2) believing the Gospel message, and (3) as a result being sealed In Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. There is nothing about about a regeneration preceding being marked In Him. I submit that the regeneration occurs when he is sealed In Him.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,​

True doctrine is backed by scripture. I am not going through your two-second effort to cut and paste scriptures on the 5 points of TULIP other than to provide a couple of internet links that refute TULIP Arguments against Calvinism and Predestination, Tulip - the Five Points of Calvinism Refuted

You are going to have to do more than neuter John 3:16 as there is other evidence that God loves all humanity God is love (1 John 4:8). Jesus commands us to love our human enemies. Jesus would be a hypocrite if He is commanding us to love those He hates. Christ died for all mankind (1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 2:6) - there is no greater love. When we were enemies Christ died for us (Romans 5:10). Christ's atonement presents grace to all mankind - as that grace is received through faith (John 3:14-15). God desires all people to be saved through repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, Acts 2:38), but some chose not to repent.

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [b]authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and [c]reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,​

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.​

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.​

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Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

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Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

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Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

When Moses lifted up the brass serpent on a pole, who was healed? Those who looked upon the serpent believing the promise. When Christ was lifted on the Cross, who was saved? Those who look upon Christ's atonement in faith.

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Once again you look only through the perspective of man in time without realising who God is and how He works in time. God commands things to man in time which work toward His sovereign decree made before time and man is indeed responsible and made accountable for not obeying them. The Gospel warns men that they will perish if they do not have the repentance and faith that God commands but to say the ability to do these things is ultimately the result of man's will without the influence of God is plain heresy which ignores the Scriptures I have plentifully given regarding the true state of man and more importantly, robs a perfectly jealous God of His glory in salvation.

I have already explained the universal verses you keep quoting but you seem intent to believe that Christ is a liar and there is no Hell, because that is what you are portraying by claiming that Christ died to save every single person which must also include Antichrist.

God has chosen to use the foolishness of Gospel preaching as the means to grant His chosen people faith. The apostle Paul heard the Gospel preached at Stephen's martyr and he was brought to acknowledge Christ as Lord on the road to Damascus not because he exercised his so called free will but in defiance of his will which was intent on capturing and killing the followers of Christ.

Because you consistently seek to deny God His sovereign glory, you are currently being judicially blinded by Him from seeing who He is, who man is and especially who you are. Unless He humbles you to see this, you will continue in your pride of self will and perish. The love of God compels me to tell you the truth that you can not do anything to save yourself and to cry out to Him who alone can save you while He still gives you breath. I sincerely hope that it doesn't take a tragedy in your life for you to be woken up to His truth.

 

[Dan1988]

What you are talking about is purely subjective. There are non-Christians who believe in God and will make the same types of claims. Non-Calvinist Evangelicals can also point to promises in the word of God. The word of God is a better starting point than our feelings.

Many will argue that the division started with influential Augustus who was a convert from Gnosticism and introduced some of that into Christianity.

Yes. Put forth a short list of Calvinists proof texts, and I will strive to give an answer - that is what I have been doing. Calvinism should have been a non-starter just based upon 1 Timothy 2:4. How can God desire all people to be saved while predestinating any to reprobation as Calvin claims?

I wasn't interested in the word of God, before He regenerated me so there's no point in suggesting that the word of God is a better starting point.

There's no such thing as a non-Christian who believes in God. It sounds like you have confused true believers with Demons, who also believe and tremble. It's true to say that every single person throughout history believes God exists, but believing in His existence and believing in Him are two diametrically opposed things.

I agree that many people from many denominations, profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Sadly it is evident that most professing believers are just minimalists, who pay lip service and that's as far as they go. Most fall away as soon as it costs them something to serve the Lord. The awful truth which Jesus proclaimed about salvation is that very few would be saved.

I can't believe that professing believers would claim that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone. If that were the case then I would renounce my faith in Him immediately, I just couldn't put my trust in a loser. If Jesus failed in His attempt to save everyone then I don't want anything to do with Him. It would mean that He's a liar, a false prophet and lunatic loser.

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the almighty Jehovah God, "almighty" to me means He never fails in anything. I have found most professing believers don't believe that God is almighty and all knowing, they think that God doesn't know all thing and God can't do all things.

If God wanted to save everyone, why does He cast most into hell. I think God will cast most professing believers into hell, because He said "many will come to me on that day, saying" you know the rest. They come before Him thinking that He would respect their good works and grant them entry into heaven, only to be cast into hell. Notice the word "many".

I believe the division in the professing Church, is as old as the Church itself. There have always been false professors in the Church, I believe that anyone who denies God any aspect of His glory is a false professor.

 

[John Mullally]

Once again you look only through the perspective of man in time without realising who God is and how He works in time. God commands things to man in time which work toward His sovereign decree made before time and man is indeed responsible and made accountable for not obeying them. The Gospel warns men that they will perish if they do not have the repentance and faith that God commands but to say the ability to do these things is ultimately the result of man's will without the influence of God is plain heresy which ignores the Scriptures I have plentifully given regarding the true state of man and more importantly, robs a perfectly jealous God of His glory in salvation.

God is love (1 John 4:8) and 1 Corinthians 13 describes love, which includes that love is kind (v4) and does not seek its own (v5). Thus God being kind is more important than God getting glory for Himself as love does not seek its own. Calvin who rarely spoke on God's love does not agree - and in his quote makes God out to be evil - in sending babies to hell. That is unthinkable - I don't believe our God, who is love, predestines anyone to eternal torment in order to get more glory for Himself as Calvin claims. If you disagree, show me from scripture.

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

I have already explained the universal verses you keep quoting but you seem intent to believe that Christ is a liar and there is no Hell, because that is what you are portraying by claiming that Christ died to save every single person which must also include Antichrist.

When scripture contradicts our pre-suppositions, we tend to think scripture contradicts itself. The problem is not with scripture - it is with our pre-suppositions that create the contradictions. Do not be like the evil men who twist scripture to support their theological pre-suppositions - instead favor scripture and re-evaluate your pre-suppositions.

The apostle Paul heard the Gospel preached at Stephen's martyr and he was brought to acknowledge Christ as Lord on the road to Damascus not because he exercised his so called free will but in defiance of his will which was intent on capturing and killing the followers of Christ.

If Paul had no free will there would be no need for God to take the excessive measures of knocking him to the ground and strike him blind.

Because you consistently seek to deny God His sovereign glory, you are currently being judicially blinded by Him from seeing who He is, who man is and especially who you are. Unless He humbles you to see this, you will continue in your pride of self will and perish. The love of God compels me to tell you the truth that you can not do anything to save yourself and to cry out to Him who alone can save you while He still gives you breath. I sincerely hope that it doesn't take a tragedy in your life for you to be woken up to His truth.

You are not Moses, Elijah, or Daniel

Stick to arguing from scripture and spare me this diatribe. Do not worry about me, I meet the salvation conditions in Mark 16:15-16. Scripture says that God desires all people to be saved in 1 Timothy 2:4 and you do not believe that - so spare me the lecture! 1 Timothy 2:4 does not mean all are saved as per many scriptures as the saved need to believe on Christ, repent, confess, etc.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I think that discussions with people who see themselves as Calvinists will go on and on for a very long time and will have no resolution.

 

[John Mullally]

I wasn't interested in the word of God, before He regenerated me so there's no point in suggesting that the word of God is a better starting point.

There's no such thing as a non-Christian who believes in God. It sounds like you have confused true believers with Demons, who also believe and tremble. It's true to say that every single person throughout history believes God exists, but believing in His existence and believing in Him are two diametrically opposed things.

It is ridiculous tp say that only Christians believe in God.

I agree that many people from many denominations, profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Sadly it is evident that most professing believers are just minimalists, who pay lip service and that's as far as they go. Most fall away as soon as it costs them something to serve the Lord. The awful truth which Jesus proclaimed about salvation is that very few would be saved.

I can't believe that professing believers would claim that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone. If that were the case then I would renounce my faith in Him immediately, I just couldn't put my trust in a loser. If Jesus failed in His attempt to save everyone then I don't want anything to do with Him. It would mean that He's a liar, a false prophet and lunatic loser.

Scripture says that Christ died for everyone.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.​

1 John 2: 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.​

​

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.​

The Salvation that God provides is only received by those who put their faith in Jesus.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the almighty Jehovah God, "almighty" to me means He never fails in anything. I have found most professing believers don't believe that God is almighty and all knowing, they think that God doesn't know all thing and God can't do all things.

Although God is almighty, it does not imply that God is control of man's every thought and action. Thus God can be Sovereign while still permitting man's will - which is what all early Church theologians believed until Augustine introduced determinism at 412 AD. The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism: Wilson, Ken: 9781082800351: Amazon.com: Books

If God wanted to save everyone, why does He cast most into hell. I think God will cast most professing believers into hell, because He said "many will come to me on that day, saying" you know the rest. They come before Him thinking that He would respect their good works and grant them entry into heaven, only to be cast into hell. Notice the word "many".

I believe the division in the professing Church, is as old as the Church itself. There have always been false professors in the Church, I believe that anyone who denies God any aspect of His glory is a false profession.

Imagine that God in His Sovereignty desires all to be saved, but leaves the final decision to man. Assuming that, God is working to persuade men to receive eternal life through faith, but some in their stubbornness refuse - that is not God's failure.

God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

 

[John Mullally]

I think that discussions with people who see themselves as Calvinists will go on and on for a very long time and will have no resolution.

You opened this thread, I don't believe most Calvinists are unsaved, but I do think some of them are divisive, It is that divisiveness that concerns me. If it was just a matter of God determining before hand who would be saved verses man choosing to believe, I would not post because from my perspective I could not tell the difference. But it is much more than that as Calvinists tend to be extremely judgmental and flame other Christians (refer to their American Gospel flick they put on YouTube to attack my mentors). I am motived to post because of that hostility.

 

[maxamir]

God is love (1 John 4:8) and 1 Corinthians 13 describes love, which includes that love is kind (v4) and does not seek its own (v5). Thus God being kind is more important than God getting glory for Himself as love does not seek its own. Calvin who rarely spoke on God's love does not agree - and in his quote makes God out to be evil - in sending babies to hell. That is unthinkable - I don't believe our God, who is love, predestines anyone to eternal torment in order to get more glory for Himself as Calvin claims. If you disagree, show me from scripture.

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

When scripture contradicts our pre-suppositions, we tend to think scripture contradicts itself. The problem is not with scripture - it is with our pre-suppositions that create the contradictions. Do not be like the evil men who twist scripture to support their theological pre-suppositions - instead favor scripture and re-evaluate your pre-suppositions.

If Paul had no free will there would be no need for God to take the excessive measures of knocking him to the ground and strike him blind.

You are not Moses, Elijah, or Daniel

Stick to arguing from scripture and spare me this diatribe. Do not worry about me, I meet the salvation conditions in Mark 16:15-16. Scripture says that God desires all people to be saved in 1 Timothy 2:4 and you do not believe that - so spare me the lecture! 1 Timothy 2:4 does not mean all are saved as per many scriptures as the saved need to believe on Christ, repent, confess, etc.

God is indeed love, except you have perverted God's love in such a way to exclude God's holiness and His love for righteousness and justice (Psalm 33:5, 37:28). God is a jealous God and vengeance belongs to Him (Deu 4:24, Heb 12:19). To not know this is to not understand the Gospel and why Christ came. Because God is love, He must hate everything that is opposed to His nature and His glory. You prove that you do not yet know who God is by foolishly implying that God's glory does not matter to Him.

Isa_42:8 I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

Isa_48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.

You have also proven that you do not believe in the biblical doctrine of original sin and somehow think that some are innocent before a holy God and that He is obligated to provide mercy for them.

Everyone has free will to do according to their nature. but the Scriptures prove that this will is, as the Lord Himself proclaims "only evil continually" (Gen 6:5). This is why men must be first born again to be made free from their cursed nature, captivity to the devil and their addiction to sin before they could possibly want to choose the God they were born hating.

Your statement that you meet the conditions of salvation, confirms that you are currently trusting in what you have done to get to Heaven rather than trusting who the Lord is and what He has done and by doing this you do not yet know what grace means.

 

[John Mullally]

Everyone has free will to do according to their nature. but the Scriptures prove that this will is, as the Lord Himself proclaims "only evil continually" (Gen 6:5). This is why men must be first born again to be made free from their cursed nature, captivity to the devil and their addiction to sin before they could possibly want to choose the God they were born hating.

You are saying that people are unable to respond to the Gospel without the Holy Spirit regenerating them first. That is a theory that is not explicitly stated in scripture. Even though man does not seek after God, God seeks after man. Post Calvary, Jesus draw all men to himself (John 12:32) and the Holy Spirit convicts the world (John 16:8). I assert that being born again is the same as receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38 and being sealed by the Holy Spirit in Ephesians 1:13 and both of those occur after believing.

Your statement that you meet the conditions of salvation, confirms that you are currently trusting in what you have done to get to Heaven rather than trusting who the Lord is and what He has done and by doing this you do not yet know what grace means.

Their are many promises in the Bible addressed to all people or believers. If you meet the conditions, you can claim the benefit. God honors His word. The promises are in the word of God because He wants us to act on them and receive the benefit as we see in Acts 2:36-41 when 3000 were saved.

 

[Dan1988]

It is ridiculous tp say that only Christians believe in God.

Scripture says that Christ died for everyone.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.​

1 John 2: 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.​

​

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.​

The Salvation that God provides is only received by those who put their faith in Jesus.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

Although God is almighty, it does not imply that God is control of man's every thought and action. Thus God can be Sovereign while still permitting man's will - which is what all early Church theologians believed until Augustine introduced determinism at 412 AD. The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism: Wilson, Ken: 9781082800351: Amazon.com: Books

Imagine that God in His Sovereignty desires all to be saved, but leaves the final decision to man. Assuming that, God is working to persuade men to receive eternal life through faith, but some in their stubbornness refuse - that is not God's failure.

God takes no delight in the death of the wicked.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’​

It's all well and good to quote all the passages of scripture which support your Arminian, "free will gospel". It would be helpful to hear your view on the many scriptures which support the Calvinist view.

We never understand the gospel, if we cherry pick the Bible and ignore the awful truths which don't support what our particular denomination teaches. We need to embrace the whole counsel of God, but I don't find many Churches teaching the whole ugly truth. I understand Church leaders run their Churches like a business, they're like used car salesman with monthly sales targets so they're afraid to preach against sin and false doctrine.

We see all the large Churches preaching the "name it and claim it" prosperity gospel, while those who preach the whole counsel of God have very small numbers. The wicked prosper in this world, while the followers of Christ suffer persecution and many are martyred. It's hard to distinguish the Church from the world these days.

The church is divided in to so many different denominations, with different confession and all have opposing views while claiming to possess the truth of the gospel. The Bible does say, "let God be true and every man a liar", but what we see in our time is everyone boasting about their own wisdom and flying their denominational colors proudly. How did pride even sneak into the Church, aren't we supposed to be humble and loving towards the weaker brother.

I don't believe in forcing my view upon anyone, I would like to have fellowship with true believers. I appreciate it's hard to deal with those scriptures which don't support our particular view. This is why God needs to squash us like a potter would a faulty clay vessel and start again. We can become our own worst stumbling blocks when we become hardened with a wrong understanding.

I came out of Roman Catholicism and I tried to share the gospel with my uncle, who rejected it. His reasoning was that he'd spent his entire life as a practicing Roman Catholic, and he will continue as such until he dies. He said I've invested my whole life in that faith and I refuse to hear any other alternative religious view at my age. I'm sticking with it even if it is a false religion as you say it is.

My uncle's situation is very common, I've found most people have that same attitude regardless of their religion. We're all in danger of developing a hardened heart, it has very tragic consequences.

 

[John Mullally]

It's all well and good to quote all the passages of scripture which support your Arminian, "free will gospel". It would be helpful to hear your view on the many scriptures which support the Calvinist view.

Basically, I take many of the Calvinists proof texts that talk about predestination as follows:

1. God fulfills His word.
2. The Bible addresses how God brought about Christ's redemption.
3. The Bible addresses how God brought about the Exodus. The failures, like Moses striking the rock twice and Israel's unbelief are not God's plan.
4. Predestination in Ephesians 1 deals with God predestinating the "faithful in Christ" (v1) to "adoption as sons" (v5). He is not talking about predestinating particular individuals, but a class of individuals (v1).
5. From the FOTW, Christ was slain (Revelations 13:8) for the purpose that those who believe will be adopted (Ephesians 1:1-14).

It is common to ridicule "the prosperity Gospel", but it is Jesus who said Mark 11:23-24 - so it is not hyperbole.