Who is Under the Law?

[HARK!]

The law of sin and death is what we are freed from, God gave the law through Moses.


Part of that law was putting people to death, and all were sinners, as Jesus showed when Israel wanted to stone the woman taken in Adultery.

All of that is gone now.

Here is how YHWH's law works. You obey it; you live. You ignore it; you die. It's really just about that simple.

BTW, that story of the woman taken into adultery is fiction. It was added to scripture later.

Yahshua said that the law stands. Who should I believe?

 

[prophecy_uk]

Here is how YHWH's law works. You obey it; you live. You ignore it; you die. It's really just about that simple.

BTW, that story of the woman taken into adultery is fiction. It was added to scripture later.

Yahshua said that the law stands. Who should I believe?

That was how the law worked, it was a curse, to have to continue in it or die.


Jesus freed us from that curse, by being made a curse for us, and by having all the accusations of the curse nailed onto His cross.


It cant be the same way, as that would not be the simplicity of Christ at all.


The story of the woman taken in adultery, is fact as we see in the old testament how Israel under the law did carry out viscous sentences for all laws that were broken.


Jesus did free us from Israels laws, so it cannot be any truer, whenever the time the story of all Christ did, was told. ( it's called faith)

 

[Freth]

That was how the law worked, it was a curse, to have to continue in it or die.


Jesus freed us from that curse, by being made a curse for us, and by having all the accusations of the curse nailed onto His cross.


It cant be the same way, as that would not be the simplicity of Christ at all.


The story of the woman taken in adultery, is fact as we see in the old testament how Israel under the law did carry out viscous sentences for all laws that were broken.


Jesus did free us from Israels laws, so it cannot be any truer, whenever the time the story of all Christ did, was told. ( it's called faith)

If this were true, there should be no mention of the Ten Commandments post-crucifixion.

Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies [the Ten Commandments]: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.​

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

Instead, we have an exposition of what the love commandments actually refer to; the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

James 2:8-10 If ye fulfil the royal law [God's law] according to the scripture [note: Old Testament was the only scripture at the time], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors [sin is still transgression of the law of God; the Ten Commandments]. For whosoever shall keep the whole law [again, the Ten Commandments], and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

 

[prophecy_uk]

If this were true, there should be no mention of the Ten Commandments post-crucifixion.

Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies [the Ten Commandments]: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.​

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

Instead, we have an exposition of what the love commandments actually refer to; the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

James 2:8-10 If ye fulfil the royal law [God's law] according to the scripture [note: Old Testament was the only scripture at the time], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors [sin is still transgression of the law of God; the Ten Commandments]. For whosoever shall keep the whole law [again, the Ten Commandments], and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

To keep all seven days sanctified and holy to the Lord, are the ten commandments.


Now, you should have a different law in your heart of Christ, ( the law of faith, not of works or letter which kills) which is, to bear one another's burdens, on all holy seven days....


Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




All is clean to us, so why quote not what enters our mouth defiles us, if you believe it does....


Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Luke 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[LW97Nils]

Not Justified by the "works" of the religions of this world and their "LAW" (We have a Law, and by our LAW He ought to die)

Not by the Torah law either, at least not by those directed only to Israel (like excluding the disabled or those born out of the wedlock. By different works.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? James 2:14-16

As for the Mosaic law.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

It is improper to say this was not related to the Mosaic law. Otherwise, we would have to suggest it in this verse also:
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24

Whilst agreeing with you that of course Jews had been permitted to eat with gentiles under the Old Covenant and gentiles could join the physical nation, they generally were born apart from it.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves Romans 2:14

 

[BobRyan]

To keep all seven days sanctified and holy to the Lord, are the ten commandments.

no such bible text. Of course.

Now, you should have a different law in your heart of Christ,

Not according to Christ in Matt 5.

Not according to Paul in Eph 6:2

Not According to Paul in Heb 8:6-12 or according to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-34 where they both claim it is the Law of God as known to Jeremiah and his readers.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.

( the law of faith, not of works or letter which kills) which is, to bear one another's burdens, on all holy seven days....

No doubt this "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 teaching has been around for a very long time. Right from the Law of Moses as Christ reminds us in Matt 22.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

No doubt this "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 teaching has been around for a very long time. Right from the Law of Moses as Christ reminds us in Matt 22.

It is the SECOND most significant command in the LAW of Moses according to Christ in Matt 22. The FIRST one being Deut 6:4 "Love God with all your heart"

Christ does not say "on these two commandments I DELETE all the Law and the prophets" but rather - "firmly establish" all the Law and the prophets.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

In Mark 7:6-13 we are reminded to ignore the traditions of man - that are set against the "Commandment of GOD".

No wonder "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

 

[LW97Nils]

no such bible text. Of course.

Not according to Christ in Matt 5.

Not according to Paul in Eph 6:2

Not According to Paul in Heb 8:6-12 or according to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-34 where they both claim it is the Law of God as known to Jeremiah and his readers.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.


No doubt this "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 teaching has been around for a very long time. Right from the Law of Moses as Christ reminds us in Matt 22.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.


No doubt this "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 teaching has been around for a very long time. Right from the Law of Moses as Christ reminds us in Matt 22.

It is the SECOND most significant command in the LAW of Moses according to Christ in Matt 22. The FIRST one being Deut 6:4 "Love God with all your heart"

Christ does not say "on these two commandments I DELETE all the Law and the prophets" but rather - "firmly establish" all the Law and the prophets.

I choose the Bible - over popular suggestions.

In Mark 7:6-13 we are reminded to ignore the traditions of man - that are set against the "Commandment of GOD".

No wonder "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Correct. The 10 commandments. Not the entire Mosaic Law which was limited to one nation.

 

[BobRyan]

Not by the Torah law either

Agreed. Man does not work his way to heaven

Not by "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 (Matt 22)
Not by "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 (Matt 22)

And no -- that does not delete those scriptures. It just points out that the lost do not earn their way to salvation.

As for the Mosaic law.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

And also

Rom 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God - but it is the DOERS of the LAW that WILL be JUSTIFIED"
Rom 2:16 "on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind through Jesus Christ"

No wonder "the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[LW97Nils]

Agreed. Man does not work his way to heaven

Not by "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:4 (Matt 22)
Not by "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 (Matt 22)

And no -- that does not delete those scriptures. It just points out that the lost do not earn their way to salvation.


And also

Rom 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God - but it is the DOERS of the LAW that WILL be JUSTIFIED"
Rom 2:16 "on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind through Jesus Christ"

No wonder "the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Indeed, the 10 commandments, not circumcision of the flesh

 

[BobRyan]

Correct. The 10 commandments. Not the entire Mosaic Law which was limited to one nation.

It is more than just the TEN as Christ points out in Matt 22 when He quotes from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 as being the two great commandments upon which all the law and the prophets are based.

But in general I do agree that it is the moral law of God that is applicable to all mankind.

 

[LW97Nils]

It is more than just the TEN as Christ points out in Matt 22 when He quotes from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 as being the two great commandments upon which all the law and the prophets are based.

But in general I do agree that it is the moral law of God that is applicable to all mankind.

Yes. My disagreement would be on the dietary laws, for those were mostly symbolic. What is forbidden is blood from any animal (Genesis 9:4 and Acts 15:28-29).

 

[BobRyan]

Yes. My disagreement would be on the dietary laws, for those were mostly symbolic. What is forbidden is blood from any animal (Genesis 9:4 and Acts 15:28-29).

The clean vs unclean distinction in Lev 11 is in the days of Noah before the flood as we see in Gen 7, 8 and 9 - before anything specifically "for Jews".

in Acts 10 Peter says that long after Christ had been ascended to heaven - he was still not eating rat sandwiches.

So I think there is some justification for affirmation of it.

During the bubonic plague the Jews experienced some degree of protection by paying attention to that part of the Word of God - when it comes to rat sandwiches and a few other hygienic details.

 

[LW97Nils]

It is more than just the TEN as Christ points out in Matt 22 when He quotes from Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 as being the two great commandments upon which all the law and the prophets are based.

The moral law, absolutely. Not circumcision of the flesh or the prohibition to shave, I suppose

 

[LW97Nils]

The clean vs unclean distinction in Lev 11 is in the days of Noah before the flood as we see in Gen 7, 8 and 9 - before anything specifically "for Jews".
in Acts 10 Peter says that long after Christ had been ascended to heaven - he was still not eating rat sandwiches.

I think you are missing the point. The clean vs unclean distinction was not regarding food back then, but regarding sacrifice. Prior to the flood, no one would eat meat to begin with. So, when God said "every moving thing" in Genesis 9:3, he did mean it. How do we know? Had He not meant it, He would have said "every clean moving thing", as he did in Genesis 8:20 ("every clean beast", related to sacrifice, not food).

Well, rat is different from swine. There is poison in rats. In pigs, no such thing is the case. In fact, I have eaten them and not gotten sick

As for Peter's refusal to eat unclean things...
And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Acts 10:15

 

[HARK!]

Not by the Torah law either, at least not by those directed only to Israel

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel. YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel. YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel.

The same could be said of the "New Covenant" Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12.

So you make a very good point in that regard.

===============================================

But there is always the Rom 2 as a qualifier for gentiles in certain cases.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.​

In Acts 21 we see gentiles exempted from part of the law - (ceremonial) -- which is not possible at all if there is only two groups - namely "saved vs lost" or put another way -- "Jew vs gentile".

Acts 21:
20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law. 25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we sent a letter, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took along the men, and the next day, after purifying himself together with them, he went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

It is very clear in that chapter that they were not telling gentiles to participate in temple ritual washings/vows./circumcision etc Distinctions between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians existed at least at some level - in terms of practice -- according to Acts 21.

In Acts 21 - the Church leaders in Jerusalem want Paul to participate in a temple ritual that was very distinctly applicable to the Jewish |Christians and not the Gentiles - as proof that he was not teaching Jewish converts to do the very thing he was being accused of before the Christian Jewish leadership in Jerusalem.

 

[HARK!]

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24

That is a mistranslation.

Here is a more correct rendering:


(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

"has become" present perfect tense.

The Torah stands forever. Yahshua made this very clear.

 

[LW97Nils]

That is a mistranslation.

Here is a more correct rendering:


(CLV) Ga 3:24
So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.

"has become" present perfect tense.

Which makes no difference. We agree it is a schoolmaster/escort indeed, but...
...after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:25

 

[LW97Nils]

The same could be said of the "New Covenant" Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12.

But there is always Rom 2 as a qualifier for gentiles in certain cases.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

In Acts 21 we see gentiles exempted from part of the law - (ceremonial) -- which is not possible at all if there is only two groups - namely "saved vs lost" or put another way -- "Jew vs gentile".

Acts 21:
20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law. 25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we sent a letter, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took along the men, and the next day, after purifying himself together with them, he went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

It is very clear in that chapter that they were not telling gentiles to participate in temple ritual washings/vows./circumcision etc Distinctions between Jewish Christians and Gentiles in terms of practice appears to be very clear in Acts 21.

Which would confirm my point. See also Acts 15:28-29. The unclean animals in Moses were not adressed. Paul would've done better to do so, if they were universally, otherwise, why mention blood?