Of the following spiritual gifts, which ones are still available and which ones have ceased?

[Butch5]

The natural gifts like

In 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 we find the following gifts:

• utterance of wisdom
• utterance of knowledge
• faith
• gifts of healing
• working of miracles
• prophecy
• the ability to distinguish between spirits
• various kinds of tongues
• interpretation of tongues

Then, in verses 27-31 of the same chapter we find another list of gifts:

• apostles
• prophets
• teachers
• miracles
• gifts of healing
• helping
• administrating
• various kinds of tongues
• interpretation of tongues

Romans 12:3-8 also contains a list of spiritual gifts:

• prophecy
• service
• teaching
• exhortation
• contribution / generosity
• leadership
• acts of mercy

Ephesians 4:11-12 lists the following:

• apostles
• prophets
• evangelists
• shepherds
• Question: Which of the gifts listed above are still available to the body of Christ and which ones have ceased?

Teaching

In 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 we find the following gifts:

• utterance of wisdom
• utterance of knowledge
• faith
• gifts of healing
• working of miracles
• prophecy
• the ability to distinguish between spirits
• various kinds of tongues
• interpretation of tongues

Then, in verses 27-31 of the same chapter we find another list of gifts:

• apostles
• prophets
• teachers
• miracles
• gifts of healing
• helping
• administrating
• various kinds of tongues
• interpretation of tongues

Romans 12:3-8 also contains a list of spiritual gifts:

• prophecy
• service
• teaching
• exhortation
• contribution / generosity
• leadership
• acts of mercy

Ephesians 4:11-12 lists the following:

• apostles
• prophets
• evangelists
• shepherds
• teachers

Question: Which of the gifts listed above are still available to the body of Christ and which ones have ceased?

The natural gifts such as teaching helping and shepherding, are still active. The supernatural gifts have ceased.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The natural gifts like

Teaching

The natural gifts such as teaching helping and shepherding, are still active. The supernatural gifts have ceased.

I wonder who said that, because God never said it.

 

[Butch5]

I wonder who said that, because God never said it.

Actually, the apostle Paul tells us that they would end.

 

[Postvieww]

The natural gifts like

Teaching

The natural gifts such as teaching helping and shepherding, are still active. The supernatural gifts have ceased.

False. Nothing in scripture says this. God never changes , He has always been a supernatural God. There have been miracles throughout church history.

 

[Postvieww]

Actually, the apostle Paul tells us that they would end.

Actually for this age that is not what he said.

 

[Butch5]

False. Nothing in scripture says this. God never changes , He has always been a supernatural God. There have been miracles throughout church history.

False? No, the apostle Paul said that prophecy, knowledge, and tongues would cease. They did.

 

[Butch5]

Actually for this age that is not what he said.

Uh, yeah it is. He even wrote down.

 

[Guojing]

Uh, yeah it is. He even wrote down.

You may be keen to participate in the discussion about that passage in 1 Cor 13 here

Those who believe the perfect in 1 Cor 13:10 refers to the 2nd coming...

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Actually, the apostle Paul tells us that they would end.

Where does he say that? I have the NASB and I can't see any verse or passage that says that Paul tells us they will end before the end of the Church Age. To make an assertion like yours, "Thus says the Lord" is needed to make it true.

 

[Butch5]

Where does he say that? I have the NASB and I can't see any verse or passage that says that Paul tells us they will end before the end of the Church Age. To make an assertion like yours, "Thus says the Lord" is needed to make it true.

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul says that prophecy and knowledge which were "in part" would cease when the completion comes. What is in part? It was the message from God. When the message was complete then prophecy and knowledge would cease. So, that begs the question, did the message from God reach completion? Well, here are the words of Paul and Jude.

22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 20:21–27.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jud 3.

According to both Paul and Jude the faith, God's message, was complete. Thus, that which was in part did reach completion.

 

[Guojing]

Where does he say that? I have the NASB and I can't see any verse or passage that says that Paul tells us they will end before the end of the Church Age. To make an assertion like yours, "Thus says the Lord" is needed to make it true.

Are you still holding on to this view regarding what 1 Corinthians 13:8 and 1 Corinthians 13:13 are saying?

That the 2 sets of triple gifts

1. Tongues, prophecies, and word of knowledge
2. Faith, hope, and love

are inseparable?

When one set does not cease, the other set must also not cease, and vice versa?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul says that prophecy and knowledge which were "in part" would cease when the completion comes. What is in part? It was the message from God. When the message was complete then prophecy and knowledge would cease. So, that begs the question, did the message from God reach completion? Well, here are the words of Paul and Jude.

22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 20:21–27.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jud 3.

According to both Paul and Jude the faith, God's message, was complete. Thus, that which was in part did reach completion.

What you have said has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit. Also Paul is speaking in the present tense when he said that we know in part and prophesy in part. This means that partial knowledge and prophecy were existent right then and not in the future according to him. The perfection he was talking about was in the future as far as he was concerned. What you are doing is twisting Scripture out of context to make it mean what you want it to mean. I am not sure where you are getting your theology from.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Are you still holding on to this view regarding what 1 Corinthians 13:8 and 1 Corinthians 13:13 are saying?

That the 2 sets of triple gifts

1. Tongues, prophecies, and word of knowledge
2. Faith, hope, and love

are inseparable?

When one set does not cease, the other set must also not cease, and vice versa?

Faith, hope and love are not spiritual gifts, and they are essential components of our Christian lives today, and not for the future when we are in glory with the Lord, except love, which part of the eternal character of God.

 

[Guojing]

Faith, hope and love are not spiritual gifts, and they are essential components of our Christian lives today, and not for the future when we are in glory with the Lord, except love, which part of the eternal character of God.

So are the 2 sets inseparable?

That is my question.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So are the 2 sets inseparable?

That is my question.

They are inseparable, because those whose Christian character involves faith, hope and love, will be able to manifest the gifts of tongues and prophecy as the Holy Spirit directs according to His will for the building up of the body of Christ. In fact the purpose of the gifts of the Spirit are to increase the faith, hope, and love in the members of the body of Christ.

 

[Guojing]

They are inseparable, because those whose Christian character involves faith, hope and love, will be able to manifest the gifts of tongues and prophecy as the Holy Spirit directs according to His will for the building up of the body of Christ. In fact the purpose of the gifts of the Spirit are to increase the faith, hope, and love in the members of the body of Christ.

Yep, from this doctrine of yours, no wonder you have a different interpretation of those 2 verses in 1 Corinthians 13, than Butch5 and myself.

 

[Butch5]

What you have said has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit. Also Paul is speaking in the present tense when he said that we know in part and prophesy in part. This means that partial knowledge and prophecy were existent right then and not in the future according to him. The perfection he was talking about was in the future as far as he was concerned. What you are doing is twisting Scripture out of context to make it mean what you want it to mean. I am not sure where you are getting your theology from.

I'm not twisting anything. The prophesying and knowing which was in part was in the present tense when Paul said that. He said when the maturity comes, in the future, that which is in part, prophecy and knowledge, would cease. What was the prophecy and knowledge about? It was the message of God. That did come to completion as Paul and Jude indicate. I'm not sure how you think I'm twisting anything.

 

[Butch5]

Yep, from this doctrine of yours, no wonder you have a different interpretation of those 2 verses in 1 Corinthians 13, than Butch5 and myself.

Many don't see the purpose of the gifts. The purpose was to confirm the message of the apostles.

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mk 16:15–20.

The gifts were to confirm the word of the apostles. If one goes around saying a man rose from the dead people probably aren't going to pay too much attention to that person. However, if that person also heals the sick and raises the dead, he's going to get a lot of attention. That they could do miraculous signs showed that their message was from God. The apostles were the only one who could bestow the gifts. That's another question that needs to be asked. If people claim to have the gifts today, how did they get them? According to Scripture they were given through the laying on of the apostles' hands. No one today had the apostles lay hands on them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yep, from this doctrine of yours, no wonder you have a different interpretation of those 2 verses in 1 Corinthians 13, than Butch5 and myself.

That's correct.

 

[Postvieww]

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul says that prophecy and knowledge which were "in part" would cease when the completion comes. What is in part? It was the message from God. When the message was complete then prophecy and knowledge would cease. So, that begs the question, did the message from God reach completion? Well, here are the words of Paul and Jude.

22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: 23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. 24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 20:21–27.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jud 3.

According to both Paul and Jude the faith, God's message, was complete. Thus, that which was in part did reach completion.

This is a false interpretation. Scripture, the testimony of many Christians from all ages, the writings of early church fathers all prove this to be false. I have personally experienced some of these gifts and what you present here is false doctrine. You might convince those not familiar with scripture but these false claims fall on deaf ears to those that through real life experiences with a miraculous God know better.