Of the following spiritual gifts, which ones are still available and which ones have ceased?

[Postvieww]

What is the real goal of those that try to remove the miraculous from the church today? God has always been a God of the miraculous and still is today. The Bible proclaims it, Christians testify of it and there are those that fight it why?

Here is why!​

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1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11 These things command and teach.
12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[Butch5]

This is a false interpretation. Scripture, the testimony of many Christians from all ages, the writings of early church fathers all prove this to be false. I have personally experienced some of these gifts and what you present here is false doctrine. You might convince those not familiar with scripture but these false claims fall on deaf hears to those that through real life experiences with a miraculous God know better.

It's what the Scriptures say. What people "claim" is subjective. I can tell you I heard an audible voice that was from an angel or or the Lord. I can't prove that to anyone as I was the only one there. As I said, I don't believe anyone is saying that God doesn't do miracles. What were looking at is, does He still give those first century gifts to Christians. The Scriptures and Christian history would suggest the answer is no. Several of the early Christian writers speak of only a remnant of the gifts still existing in their day. If the gifts continued then they would have seen much more than just a remnant of the gifts still existing.

Having said that, the human mind is an amazing thing and it can convince itself of many things and many things that aren't so. Take for instance the belief that Christians go to Heaven when they die. I'll bet you believe that. I'll bet you would vehemently argue for that doctrine, yet there is not a single passage of Scripture that would suggest any such thing. Now, there are millions who believe that. They are convinced it is so. Yet, as I pointed out there is not a shred of evidence to support it. So, if so many can be wrongly convince of this doctrine why wouldn't we expect the same of those who claim to have the gifts?

What I find interesting is that those who claim to have the gifts can't seem to manifest them. The apostles didn't pray for someone and wait to see what happened. They walked over to the dead, laid hands on them and said arise in the name of Jesus, and they arose. I don't see Christians doing this today.

I would ask, with all of the different beliefs and denominations among Christians, whose word is God confirming? The apostles are the only Christians who didn't have errors in their theology. The rest of us do. So, is God confirming false teaching? Mark said the Lord went with the Apsotles confirming the word with signs. Their theology was perfect, ours isn't. So, I would ask, whose word is God confirming?

Also, as I pointed, Luke says the gifts were given by the laying on of the apostles hands. The last apostle was John and he's been gone for a long time. How does one today receive these gifts without the presence of an apostle?

 

[Butch5]

What is the real goal of those that try to remove the miraculous from the church today? God has always been a God of the miraculous and still is today. The Bible proclaims it, Christians testify of it and there are those that fight it why?

Here is why!​

​

​

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11 These things command and teach.
12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

This is a Red Herring fallacy. As I've already said, I dont believe anyone is arguing that God doesn't do miracles. The question is about the first century gifts and whether or not they are given.

 

[Postvieww]

does He still give those first century gifts to Christians.

Yes, but they were not exclusive to the first century no Scripture says that or implies that. Only misinterpretation allows that theory.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 a. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

Since when has the need for God to give His children a word of wisdom passed away? Unless you believe God no longer speaks to and through His children. Scripture gives us general wisdom for life but a word of wisdom can give us specific to our personal situation wisdom. This is given by the Holy Spirit of God verses 4,5,6 &7.

b. to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Since when has the the need fore a word of knowledge passed away? It has not and the Spirit of God still supernaturally gives knowledge as HE WILLS to His children. The gifts of wisdom and knowledge are not gifts men possess and control they are given and controlled by the Spirit of God, versos 4,5,6 &7.

9 a.To another faith by the same Spirit;

When did the need for extraordinary faith pass away in the church? It hasn't, it is still a gift from God given as He Wills when needed by His children.

b. to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Since when has the need for healing passed away? It hasn't, it is still given by the Spirit of God as He wills and is not a magic wand men possess to use at their own discretion.

10 a.To another the working of miracles;

Since when did God stop being God and working miracles through men as He wills? God has never stopped being a God of miracles and this gift is as He wills for His purposes and God still uses willing believers to manifest this gift.

b.to another prophecy;

Since when did the need for God to speak to his body through appointed members of His body cease? It never did, this gift is still used for the benefit of the body as God wills.

c.to another discerning of spirits;

Since when did the need for believers to recognize and deal with demonic activity pass away? It didn't, demons did not pass away and neither did the need to discern them.

d. to another divers kinds of tongues;

Oh my goodness here is the real thorn in the minds of many believers. This is still in operation today and available to the church today , its uses and benefits are clearly laid out in scripture for those who have not removed those scriptures from their Bibles.

e. to another the interpretation of tongues:

When tongues are used in a congregational setting interpretation is needed. NO this has not passed away it is alive and well in churches who have not fallen prey to false teaching on the topic.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

All who try to remove Gods gifts from the church should read closely this verse. It is God who gives, gifts , It is God who operates through the gifts and it is all as He wills. This fact seems to go right over the heads of the ones who try to remove what GOD HAS SET IN THE CHURCH.

 

[Postvieww]

This is a Red Herring fallacy. As I've already said, I dont believe anyone is arguing that God doesn't do miracles. The question is about the first century gifts and whether or not they are given.

From reading your posts you neither understand what they are for or how they operate nor what scripture says about them.

 

[Postvieww]

The apostles are the only Christians who didn't have errors in their theology.

Another false statement! Peter had to be corrected. But at least you can admit there can be errors in theology but just not in your theology???

 

[Postvieww]

I dont believe anyone is arguing that God doesn't do miracles.

But you just cannot accept the fact that He sometimes uses men as He did throughout the entirety of scripture.

 

[Postvieww]

I can tell you I heard an audible voice that was from an angel or or the Lord. I can't prove that to anyone as I was the only one there.

Some have heard an audible voice from God and some have seen angels and entertained them unawares. If you said you heard an audible voice from God my first reaction would not be to doubt you unless you said He told you something not in line with scripture. I have testified of a bodily healing pointed out by a word of knowledge giving by an evangelist. although you have not directly judged my claim what you are claiming on this forum says that was not possible because those gifts have past away. Now we have a problem either I am telling a truth or I am telling a lie and I assure you it is not the latter. So your teaching on this subject is a "sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" to me because you were not there and know not what of which you speak.

 

[Butch5]

Yes, but they were not exclusive to the first century no Scripture says that or implies that. Only misinterpretation allows that theory.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 a. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;

Since when has the need for God to give His children a word of wisdom passed away? Unless you believe God no longer speaks to and through His children. Scripture gives us general wisdom for life but a word of wisdom can give us specific to our personal situation wisdom. This is given by the Holy Spirit of God verses 4,5,6 &7.

b. to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Since when has the the need fore a word of knowledge passed away? It has not and the Spirit of God still supernaturally gives knowledge as HE WILLS to His children. The gifts of wisdom and knowledge are not gifts men possess and control they are given and controlled by the Spirit of God, versos 4,5,6 &7.

9 a.To another faith by the same Spirit;

When did the need for extraordinary faith pass away in the church? It hasn't, it is still a gift from God given as He Wills when needed by His children.

b. to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Since when has the need for healing passed away? It hasn't, it is still given by the Spirit of God as He wills and is not a magic wand men possess to use at their own discretion.

10 a.To another the working of miracles;

Since when did God stop being God and working miracles through men as He wills? God has never stopped being a God of miracles and this gift is as He wills for His purposes and God still uses willing believers to manifest this gift.

b.to another prophecy;

Since when did the need for God to speak to his body through appointed members of His body cease? It never did, this gift is still used for the benefit of the body as God wills.

c.to another discerning of spirits;

Since when did the need for believers to recognize and deal with demonic activity pass away? It didn't, demons did not pass away and neither did the need to discern them.

d. to another divers kinds of tongues;

Oh my goodness here is the real thorn in the minds of many believers. This is still in operation today and available to the church today , its uses and benefits are clearly laid out in scripture for those who have not removed those scriptures from their Bibles.

e. to another the interpretation of tongues:

When tongues are used in a congregational setting interpretation is needed. NO this has not passed away it is alive and well in churches who have not fallen prey to false teaching on the topic.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

All who try to remove Gods gifts from the church should read closely this verse. It is God who gives, gifts , It is God who operates through the gifts and it is all as He wills. This fact seems to go right over the heads of the ones who try to remove what GOD HAS SET IN THE CHURCH.

The problem is, you're quoting passages that were written to people who had the gifts, so of course they were active. Paul said they would cease when the maturity came. We see in Scriputre that it came. Thus, the end of the gifts.

Your argument is just trying reason the gifts into existence. Whether or not we need the gifts today has no bearing on whether or not God continued to give them.
We need Jesus here today, don't we? He's not here is He? We need God to make Himself present as He did to Moses, don't we? Does He do that? No. Just be cause we need something doesn't necessitate that it will happen.

 

[Butch5]

From reading your posts you neither understand what they are for or how they operate nor what scripture says about them.

Actually, I believe you have that reversed. If you knew their purpose you'd understand why they ceased and when they ceased.

 

[Butch5]

Some have heard an audible voice from God and some have seen angels and entertained them unawares. If you said you heard an audible voice from God my first reaction would not be to doubt you unless you said He told you something not in line with scripture. I have testified of a bodily healing pointed out by a word of knowledge giving by an evangelist. although you have not directly judged my claim what you are claiming on this forum says that was not possible because those gifts have past away. Now we have a problem either I am telling a truth or I am telling a lie and I assure you it is not the latter. So your teaching on this subject is a "sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" to me because you were not there and know not what of which you speak.

Rather, I think you're unclear on what those gifts are. The Scriptures tell us that the gifts were under the control of the one holding them. If I ask you right now to give me healing can you do it? The apostles could. If I came to you and said inquire of the Lord on this topic for me, could you give me an answer? The apostles could.. God telling someone to do something is not the spiritual gift of the first century. When God told Ananias to go to Paul. That wasn't the gift of prophecy or healing. As far as we know Ananias never healed another person the rest of his life. That incident with Paul was God's working. That's different from having the gift of healing in the first century. One who had the gift of healing could heal. They had control of the gift. They didn't have to pray for someone and then send them home hoping the person was healed. The person was healed on the spot. Now, if some has that gift why aren't they out there in the hospitals glorifying God and clearing out the ICU units. Imagine the glory God would get from that. But we don't see that. What we see is people praying for the sick and then waiting to see if God will answer that prayer. That's not the gift of healing. That's prayer.

 

[Butch5]

But you just cannot accept the fact that He sometimes uses men as He did throughout the entirety of scripture.

That's not the first century gift.

 

[Butch5]

Another false statement! Peter had to be corrected. But at least you can admit there can be errors in theology but just not in your theology???

What theology was Peter corrected on?

 

[Postvieww]

What theology was Peter corrected on?

Look it up!

 

[Butch5]

Look it up!

In other words you don't have any. The apostles are the only ones who had their theology 100% correct. Therefore, they are the only ones whose word God would confirm.

 

[Postvieww]

In other words you don't have any. The apostles are the only ones who had their theology 100% correct. Therefore, they are the only ones whose word God would confirm.

If you knew your Bible you wouldn’t have to ask me to point it out for you. Peter was corrected . You made the claim the apostles were 100% correct so you back it up with scripture.

 

[Postvieww]

Rather, I think you're unclear on what those gifts are. The Scriptures tell us that the gifts were under the control of the one holding them. If I ask you right now to give me healing can you do it? The apostles could. If I came to you and said inquire of the Lord on this topic for me, could you give me an answer? The apostles could.. God telling someone to do something is not the spiritual gift of the first century. When God told Ananias to go to Paul. That wasn't the gift of prophecy or healing. As far as we know Ananias never healed another person the rest of his life. That incident with Paul was God's working. That's different from having the gift of healing in the first century. One who had the gift of healing could heal. They had control of the gift. They didn't have to pray for someone and then send them home hoping the person was healed. The person was healed on the spot. Now, if some has that gift why aren't they out there in the hospitals glorifying God and clearing out the ICU units. Imagine the glory God would get from that. But we don't see that. What we see is people praying for the sick and then waiting to see if God will answer that prayer. That's not the gift of healing. That's prayer.

This post proves you have no idea on how the gifts work. I have explained this but it still flies right over your head. Men do not control the gifts they are manifestations of the Spirit.

 

[Butch5]

If you knew your Bible you wouldn’t have to ask me to point it out for you. Peter was corrected . You made the claim the apostles were 100% correct so you back it up with scripture.

I assume you're talking about the incident with Paul. If we look at history, we find that Eusebius records it was not the Apostle Peter that Paul chastised but rather it was the other Cephas. However, even if it was Peter the apostle, that incident was over behavior, not theology. So, please, show me where the apostles had errors in their theology.

 

[Butch5]

This post proves you have no idea on how the gifts work. I have explained this but it still flies right over your head. Men do not control the gifts they are manifestations of the Spirit.

The difference is, mime comes from Scripture, yours is opinion

 

[Postvieww]

The difference is, mime comes from Scripture, yours is opinion

We shall see lets do a Bibles study from Acts.