How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[zoidar]

Actually, it’s just the elect.

I know this is altogther a different question, but since I'm elect I can do whatever I like and still be saved? Is that your view?

 

[Hammster]

I meant if they don't believe as they have reached the age of accountability.

You are missing that whoever can become a sheep.

What happens first, becoming a sheep, or being a sheep that Christ died for? He died for the sheep given to Him by His Father.

 

[Hammster]

I know this is altogther a different question, but since I'm elect I can do whatever I like and still be saved? Is that your view?

Like what?

 

[zoidar]

Like what?

Well anything, living in sin like men of the world.

You will probably say: "Would you choose that?"

Well, if I can't lose salvation I might do ungodly things if it makes my life easier.

I guess the answer Reformers give is that the elect "could" lose salvation if they chose to live in sin, but the elect never chooses that. Correct?

 

[John Mullally]

Then I don’t see how you can reconcile this with 1 Timothy 2:4.

I believe the Bible and that settles it. Calvinsts and agnostics like to throw out the "what about those who don't hear the Gospel" problem. The Bible teaches that people go to hell for their sin. In Mark 16:15-16, Jesus tells up what happens to those who believe on Him and what happens to those who do not believe on Him, but does not address what happens to those who never hear about Him - so perhaps there is an opening for God to work in the behalf of those who have not heard.

Under Calvinism everything that happens is God's will. I can't create theoreticals that Calvinists cannot reconcile because Calvinism is unfalsifiable. Under Calvinism everything that happens is God's will. Calvin has created a totally fatallistic (or predetermined) doctrine. Under Calvinism everything that happens was decreed long ago (or set in motion before hand). When I say Calvinism is unfalsifiable, I mean it handles all scenarios - not that it cannot be shown to be false from scripture.

“Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3)​

​

“…it is vain to debate about prescience, which it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Calvinism predestines many to hell from before their birth. What could be more monstrous than Calvin's doctrine in this regard. But wait, Calvin adds insult to injury as it is done to give glory to God! 1 John 4:8 says that God is love. Calvin seems to have gotten God's role mixed up with our enemy (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

 

[Dah'veed]

That’s not the OP. You can’t take part of the title and make it say what you want. You have to see what the author’s intention was. Thankfully, post #1 does just that.

Thankfully when the Gentiles heard, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:48
The Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. Acts 10:44
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, Rom 10:17

 

[Hammster]

Well anything, living in sin like men of the world.

You will probably say: "Would you choose that?"

Well, if I can't lose salvation I might do ungodly things if it makes my life easier.

I guess the answer Reformers give is that the elect "could" lose salvation if they chose to live in sin, but the elect never chooses that. Correct?

If you are only trying to live sinless because you don’t want to lose your salvation, you might want to check yourself. That’s not the heart of someone who has been born again.

 

[Hammster]

I believe the Bible and that settles it. Calvinsts and agnostics like to throw out the "what about those who don't hear the Gospel" problem. The Bible teaches that people go to hell for their sin. In Mark 16:15-16, Jesus tells up what happens to those who believe on Him and what happens to those who do not believe on Him, but does not address what happens to those who never hear about Him - so perhaps there is an opening for God to work in the behalf of those who have not heard.

Under Calvinism everything that happens is God's will. I can't create theoreticals that Calvinists cannot reconcile because Calvinism is unfalsifiable. Under Calvinism everything that happens is God's will. Calvin has created a totally fatallistic (or predetermined) doctrine. Under Calvinism everything that happens was decreed long ago (or set in motion before hand). When I say Calvinism is unfalsifiable, I mean it handles all scenarios - not that it cannot be shown to be false from scripture.

“Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3)​

​

“…it is vain to debate about prescience, which it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

​

Calvinism predestines many to hell from before their birth. What could be more monstrous than Calvin's doctrine in this regard. But wait, Calvin adds insult to injury as it is done to give glory to God! 1 John 4:8 says that God is love. Calvin seems to have gotten God's role mixed up with our enemy (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

That’s a long post that just shows you could not reconcile the two.

 

[Hammster]

Thankfully when the Gentiles heard, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Acts 13:48

Still not on topic.

 

[zoidar]

If you are only trying to live sinless because you don’t want to lose your salvation, you might want to check yourself. That’s not the heart of someone who has been born again.

I know I was born again 2010. So from the Calvinist view, why do I have to check my heart?

You see my point?

A sidenote: I have done some pretty dum stuff in life because I'm weak, and that even I believe you can lose salvation. Maybe you are a better Christian, you might be. Even so I have been born again.

Is the Calvinist notion that you can't be 100% sure you have been born again?

 

[Dah'veed]

Still not on topic.

Yet the apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. Acts 11:1

May the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-3

 

[zoidar]

What happens first, becoming a sheep, or being a sheep that Christ died for? He died for the sheep given to Him by His Father.

Some were sheep before Christ died and rose, but most become sheep after Christ death and resurrection.

I don't think Christ looked into the future: "I will die for so and so, but not him or her." I think Christ died with open arms, paid the price for everyone, that whoever can become a sheep, a sheep for whom he died. In other words it was not set who the sheep would be he died for at the time of the crucifixion.

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
— John 4:13-14

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
— John 7:37-38

 

[John Mullally]

That’s a long post that just shows you could not reconcile the two.

I reconcilled 1 Timothy 2:4 in the first sentence: I believe the Bible and that settles it. Seriously, the entire post is not that long, I organized it by topic, and most can read it in 2-3 minutes.

Perhaps, next time you can surprise me by not giving out a dismissive one-liner and even showing evidence that you thoughtfully read what I said.

 

[Hammster]

I know I was born again 2010. So from the Calvinist view, why do I have to check my heart?

You see my point?

A sidenote: I have done some pretty dum stuff in life because I'm weak, and that even I believe you can lose salvation. Maybe you are a better Christian, you might be. Even so I have been born again.

Is the Calvinist notion that you can't be 100% sure you have been born again?

I’m sorry that the reason you are trying to live sinless is because of fear of losing your salvation. I’m thankful that my kids aren’t obedient out of fear of being abandoned.

 

[Hammster]

Yet the apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. Acts 11:1

May the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-3

Not the topic. Please stop posting here.

 

[Hammster]

Some were sheep before Christ died and rose, but most become sheep after Christ death and resurrection.

I don't think Christ looked into the future: "I will die for so and so, but not him or her." I think Christ died with open arms, paid the price for everyone, that whoever can become a sheep, a sheep for whom he died. In other words it was not set who the sheep would be he died for at the time of the crucifixion.

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
— John 4:13-14

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
— John 7:37-38

If they became sheep after the cross, then Christ didn’t die for them. He only died for the sheep.

 

[Hammster]

I reconcilled 1 Timothy 2:4 in the first sentence: I believe the Bible and that settles it. Seriously, the entire post is not that long, I organized it by topic, and most can read it in 2-3 minutes.

Perhaps, next time you can surprise me by not giving out a dismissive one-liner and even showing evidence that you thoughtfully read what I said.

That’s not what reconciliation means.

 

[zoidar]

I’m sorry that the reason you are trying to live sinless is because of fear of losing your salvation. I’m thankful that my kids aren’t obedient out of fear of being abandoned.

I have not said that. If you don't understand what I mean, ask me. But you are not dealing with my argument.

I believe love is prior motive to be obedient. But I also believe fear of sinning has its place. Both are needed.

 

[Hammster]

I have not said that. If you don't understand what I mean, ask me. But you are not dealing with my argument.

I believe love is prior motive to be obedient. But I also believe fear of sinning has its place. Both are needed.

My children have fear of being disobedient.

My point is that for some reason you want to turn Reformed Theology into a license to sin. I’m hoping that by illustrating my earthly relationship with my children I can show that it’s an argument without merit.

 

[zoidar]

My children have fear of being disobedient.

My point is that for some reason you want to turn Reformed Theology into a license to sin. I’m hoping that by illustrating my earthly relationship with my children I can show that it’s an argument without merit.

No, I'm not trying to do that. As I have understood it Reformers are very sincere in being obedient. And that is encouraging to see. If I were to say one good thing about Reformed Christians it would probably be that.

But from what I've heard Calvinists "know" they have been born again by testing the heart, seeing fruit in their life, seeing that they trust in Jesus etc. Nothing of that is wrong in itself, no it's actually a good thing to test yourself.

But what if you are a person that knows the exact moment of rebirth. Then you don't need to test your heart and you don't need to look for fruit, you don't need to know you trust in Jesus, if Calvinism is correct. Since you are born again, you are elect and will be saved. That, I think, proves Calvinism wrong.