Gog and Magog in Revelation and Ezekiel

[DavidPT]

As pertaining to the subject of this thread, something else we need to factor in here, is the following.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:


Regardless what this might look like when this is being fulfilled, it is meaning after Gog and his multitude have been slaughtered, that there is then 7 years that follow this. The question then is, where do these 7 years logically fit? Do they fit before Christ has returned? Or do they fit after Christ has returned? Or is there maybe another option? This is not involving 7 literal years. Assuming that could be an option, what would be the logic in not taking them as 7 literal years, though?

Which brings up something else, a thread I had recently started involving Matthew 24:7 and Isaiah 2:4. Isaiah 2:4 records the following.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Could Ezekiel 39:9 be the beginning of this process? Maybe, maybe not. Yet I can certainly see how it might be even though it's debatable as to whether it is or not.

And let's not forget where the NT places the last days, and that what Ezekiel 38 and 39 is involving are these same last days. Meaning both Isaiah 2:4 and Ezekiel 38-39 involve the last days.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I like your idealist interpretation. There is no way "the camp of the saints and the beloved city" could mean anything except the Church. But I need to find out the meaning of the symbols you listed.

Well, I was waiting for Douggg to answer the questions I posted:

Do you know what horsemen are? Do you know what being clothed with all sorts of armor means? Do you understand what bucklers, shields, and swords signify in Scripture? Or do you rather dare to believe that Russians will ride on millions of horses in the Middle East or even claim that horses are really tanks because Ezekiel never saw the tanks before?​

​

That is the question! Tell us if you can answer these biblically.​

​

But of course, he has avoided it because he obviously does know the answer but continues to sell his doctrines to others.

 

[Douggg]

But of course, he has avoided it because he obviously does know the answer but continues to sell his doctrines to others.

Actually, it was because I can't see certain people's posts...unless I opt to see their content.

Do you know what horsemen are? Do you know what being clothed with all sorts of armor means? Do you understand what bucklers, shields, and swords signify in Scripture? Or do you rather dare to believe that Russians will ride on millions of horses in the Middle East or even claim that horses are really tanks because Ezekiel never saw the tanks before?That is the question! Tell us if you can answer these biblically.

In the case of Ezekiel 38 and 39, symbolic collectively of the implements of armies in battle.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Actually, it was because I can't see certain people's posts.


In the case of Ezekiel 38 and 39, symbolic collectively of the implements of armies in battle.

Actually, the Lord wants us to look deeper into what they wear and the weapons He specifically stated. It has spiritual significance.

Eze 38:4
(4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armor, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

The word, "armour" is italicized which means that it is NOT found in the original Hebrew text. The phrase "clothed with all sorts of Armour" is actually written as "clothed with all sorts." The words "of" and "armour" were added by the translators. Please check it out for yourselves.

The closest Hebrew rending of this verse in original read "clothed most perfectly".
(Literal Translation of the Holy Bible - LITV) And I will turn you back and put
hooks into your jaws. And I will bring you and all your army out: horses and horsemen, all
of them clothed most perfectly; a great assembly with buckler and shield, all of them
swordsmen.
(1898 Young’s Literal Translation - YLT) And I have turned thee back, And I have
put hooks in thy jaws, And have brought thee out, and all thy force, Horses and horsemen,
Clothed in perfection all of them, A numerous assembly, with buckler and shield,
Handling swords--all of them.
(Even The Interlinear Bible Hebrew and Greek states) “…all of them clothed most
perfectly; …”

Point is that this army of Gog and Magog will clothed most perfectly (not clothed with all sorts of armour), but clothed with all Sorts meaning "most gorgeously". In other words, they will be spiritually clothed with all sorts (strong's H4358). The Scripture tells us that this army of FALSE but confessing "Christian" institutions and congregations will actually be seen from the spiritual Christian eye as horsemen riding upon horses set in battle array as we also read in Revelation 9.

I am not kidding. God is actually talking about massive army of counterfeit Christians that appears to be Christ-like but is under the influence of the Devil. They will come with similar weapons that True Christians have. Compare Ezekiel 38 with Ephesians 6:10-18. THe battle of Gog and Magog will not be a physical war between Russians and Israelis with their metals of wars, but spiritual battle between God's Elect and Satan's version of Christian in the congregation of God. Remember we are not weretly or fight against flesh andblood, but rather our warfare is against SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS, Eph 6:12.
These are Satan's armies, his emissaries from all nations (Gog and Magog) as they swoop down upon the global church of Jesus Christ that results in the Abomination of Desolation in the holy place on this side of the Cross. This is a New Testament Era Battle, is it not? So it has everything to do with God's New Testament congregtaion of Israel the Church. Our weapons are NOT carnal or physical in any sense of the imagination like you do. Our weapons are totally and unequivocally spiritual in nature that is fought with WORD that comes out of our mouths, as is Satan's weapons coming out of the mouths of false prophets and christ.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 -
13 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the
apostles of Christ.
14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 - Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of
righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

We have a wonderful confirmation in these verses that ensures us that Satan’s tactics will be
spiritual in nature as well. Satan’s ministers or emissaries will mimic Christ and Christ’s true
Church to such a convincing degree that “…if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect,
Matthew 24:24. And I know that you will disregard it all and yet look for literal armies in the MIddle East. "… even
a great company with [literal] bucklers and shields, all of them handling [literal] swords,”
Ezekiel 38:4? No, these bucklers, shields, and swords are the spiritual weapons that Satan’s
army possesses as well, just as Christians does, but they are counterfeit in truth, yet they are posing as the true Gospel of
Christ. Gog and Magog (those from among the nations of the world) are imposters of Christ
(transformed into ministers of righteousness) and their weapons are false weapons that are
designed to spiritually deceive the countless souls in the outer courts of the global church.

They are attacking churches all over as of this writing, yet you are indoctrinated to believe that this Gog and Magog war is nothing but physical war between Russia and Israel.

 

[tranquil]

Gog is a mountain tribe north of Assyria, and Magog is an area in eastern Turkey. In the book of Revelation, we read:

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, in order to gather them for battle; they are as numerous as the sands of the sea.9 They marched up over the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The war of Gog and Magog is described in detail in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.

My question is: What is being described in these passages? How is it interpreted in different traditions?

The thing to note about the Rev 20 passage is that it is different than the Rev 19 war against the beast and false prophet (in Rev 20, these are already in the lake of fire). The Gog war described in Rev 20 is explicitly occurring after the Rev 19 defeat of the antichrist and false prophet (Revelation 10:20). Moreover, the Rev 19 war may or may not be the same as the 6th Bowl war ('Armageddon').

Because of Ezekiel 38:12, we know that Gog is attacking the millenial kingdom of 'Israel' - Gog is attacking the people who live at the 'center of the land'/ 'navel of the world'.

This concept is related to the Deuteronomy blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. Christians are living in the 'millenium' already in an 'amillenial' sense. Nation-state Israel is not.

This is what is going on in Rev 17 with Mystery Babylon, 'who rules the world' - meaning is receiving the blessings for being in the Christian 'millenium' but is going to get punished.

As I've said a thousand times, Revelation is a great tribulation 'sandwich': great tribulation at the start of the Trumpets, then Dan 9:27 covenant, then another great tribulation at the 7th Trumpet. This 2nd great tribulation is when nation-state Israel is in the millenium.

Put in different terms, the first great tribulation deals with the beast and false prophet. The 2nd time is from the 'devil that deceived them' (Rev 20's Gog). The devil that deceives them makes the Dan 9:27 covenant in the wake of the destruction of the entities involved with the 1st great tribulation.

When Rev 17:10-11 talks about the 7 kings, the 'one that is' is the last head on the leopard that is 'given authority' in Daniel 7:6. The 7th king is the Dan 7 4th beast which hasn't arrived yet, but arrives at the start of the Trumpets (on a Feast of Tabernacles) (starting the Rev 12 material, the 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 crowns means the 7th king has arrived).

5 months later, the worthless shepherd receives his mortal head wound at the 6th Trumpet (compare it with Psalm 68) which begins the Rev 13 material which is Dan 7:12 (the 'rest of the beasts' = lion, bear, leopard given an extension as the 4th beast has been killed) (the 'season and time' of Dan 7:12 is one meaning of the 6th Trumpet's 'hour, day, month, year'). then the 2 witnesses 1260 days, then the 7th Trumpet whereby the 'devil that deceives people' is warred against.

 

[tranquil]

I don't think the story in Rev 19 continues in Rev 20. There are 7 parallel sections in the book as described here:

A Basic Outline of Revelation

At Cornerstone Fellowship Church we love God, love one another, and love our neighbor. We are gospel-centered, reformed, continuationist, baptistic, and elder-led.

cornerstoneapex.org

The Seven Parallel Sections of the Book of Revelation - Christian Teaching

A Concise Explanation of the Seven Parallel Sections Which Lie Within the Book of Revelation.Failure to perceive these sections means that one will not

www.wilmingtonfavs.com

This division is not unique to the articles above but is used by a lot of interpreters.

Rev 20:10 says that it is occurring after the false prophet is thrown into the fire (which happened in Rev 19).

That outline is not correct on a lot of things.

Rev 12 doesn't go back in history, it is going to the start of the Trumpets. The 7 heads, 10 horns, 7 crowns of Revelation 12:3 means that this is the 7th king that has arrived from Revelation 17:10. The '1/3 of the stars fall' in Revelation 12:4 connects to the 4th Trumpet in Revelation 8:12's 'third of the stars are struck'.

The 'dragon' is the Dan 7 4th beast. The 'flood' of Revelation 12:15-17 is the 'flood' of the 5th Trumpet's five months (same 'flood' in Dan 9:26). The 'worthless shepherd' gets his mortal head wound at the 6th Trumpet (five months after the Feast of Tabernacles on a 15 Adar) and this begins the 'great tribulation' of Revelation 13 on a 'winter, Sabbath' of Matthew 24:20-22. The 'rest of the beasts' of Dan 7:12 are the lion, bear, leopard being given an extension. The 4th beast has been destroyed (on the mountains of Israel).

The 'earth' that is protecting the woman (from the start of the Trumpets) against the 'dragon' is just part of the long con to gain the 'woman's' trust. Once the dragon is destroyed, it can say that it is now reformed (at the start of the 6th Trumpet). Shortly thereafter the False Prophet (probably the Pope, probably 2 months later) will institute 666 and make the 'living image' of the worthless shepherd. It is probably the living image that goes into the 'temple' (whatever that means) and calls itself God.

After the destruction of the beast and false prophet, then there is another 'prince to come' who will confirm and break the covenant after 1260 days at the 7th Trumpet.

Back to Ezekiel, after Gog and Magog and the 'coastlands' are destroyed, then 'God will not allow his holy name to be profaned anymore' (Ezek 39:6-7). So, when they do profane it (at the 7th Trumpet when the prince to come breaks the covenant), God will punish them. That is the 'great feast that is being prepared' in Ezekiel 39:17-24.

 

[Timtofly]

It can be argued, and rightfully so, that if one is applying Ezekiel 38-39 to this present age, and then applying Revelation 20:7-9 to an age after this present age, how is that even logical in light of the following?'

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

This verse has Gog and his multitude all dead and buried, therefore, how can there still be a Gog and his multitude in a future age if in this age Gog and his multitude are dead and buried? To be fair, those interpreters who insist Ezekiel 38-39 is involving an ancient battle that has already been fulfilled ages ago, run into the same problem. If Gog and his multitude have been dead and buried for ages now, why then are they showing up in Revelation 20 still alive and well?

One thing that might help solve some of this is what the following records.

Ezekiel 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

What is meant by this---and leave but the sixth part of thee? Could that mean that God spares a remnant to fight with another day? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not entirely certain what to make of that.

Gog and Magog are not specific people. Look them up in historical context. Did they once have a home? Probably, but they are people scattered throughout the earth, who were viewed like we do the homeless, or slaves. Perhaps they may be like the foreign legion or people, nations hire in time of war.

The Ezekiel war is not the same people as Revelation 20. There is currently, today, no nation of Gog nor Magog, nor will there ever be one. There is no nation that rises up at the end of the Millennium in Satan's time of deceiving people. The people deceived will be just non-desript people of Gog and Magog.

In Ezekiel's war, other nations come to fight a war, and many hired guns, ie Gog and Magog types.

 

[Timtofly]

I like your idealist interpretation. There is no way "the camp of the saints and the beloved city" could mean anything except the Church. But I need to find out the meaning of the symbols you listed.

The church is currently only in Jerusalem?

 

[Timtofly]

I don't think the story in Rev 19 continues in Rev 20. There are 7 parallel sections in the book as described here:

A Basic Outline of Revelation

At Cornerstone Fellowship Church we love God, love one another, and love our neighbor. We are gospel-centered, reformed, continuationist, baptistic, and elder-led.

cornerstoneapex.org

The Seven Parallel Sections of the Book of Revelation - Christian Teaching

A Concise Explanation of the Seven Parallel Sections Which Lie Within the Book of Revelation.Failure to perceive these sections means that one will not

www.wilmingtonfavs.com

This division is not unique to the articles above but is used by a lot of interpreters.

You mean a lot of personal opinions?

If you get a letter that stated: you just won a million dollars. The next letter states The money was deposited into your bank account.

Then you come along and claim that these are not consecutive letters but parallel. The money was given to you 1993 years ago in parallel accounts. You still won at the end, but the money was given to you at the beginning 1993 years ago.

 

[Andrewn]

You will notice that those the scripture described as Gog and Magog are the few unsaved mortals that survive the cataclysmic events of those days to enter the Millennium in flesh. . . . So, some of these people born in the millennium and didn't experience life as we know it in this age, will still not accept Jesus Christ even though he is on earth and ruling from Jerusalem at that time. Satan will gather them after his release to surround the holy city but will be consumed by fire.

This is a Dispensational interpretation. It is hardly likely that mortals would not accept Jesus Christ even though he is on earth and ruling from Jerusalem at that time. Amillennialists would say that some mortals are not accepting Christ in the current realized millennium because they can't see Him.

 

[BillCody]

If you really read Ezekiel 38 and 39 you will see they are in the Millennium reign of Christ. And to say that Gog/Magog war happens now and God gets all the Glory. And then Israel turns to the antichrist after this, is just silly talk.

 

[Andrewn]

Regardless what this might look like when this is being fulfilled, it is meaning after Gog and his multitude have been slaughtered, that there is then 7 years that follow this. The question then is, where do these 7 years logically fit? Do they fit before Christ has returned? Or do they fit after Christ has returned?

A related question is whether the wars in Rev 19 and Rev 20 are the same. The war in Rev 19 ends w/ the beast & the false prophet in the LOF and Satan bound for 1000 years. The war in Rev 20 ends w/ Satan being thrown in the LOF and Christ coming for judgment.

If the ending of 2 wars is not the same the wars may not be the same: one at the beginning of the millennium and the other at the end of the millennium. Eze 38 & 39 and the 7 years you describe seem to logically fit with the first war. Do Gog and Magog attack twice? I guess this is possible if we understand the second war spiritually.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Could Ezekiel 39:9 be the beginning of this process?

Perhaps this is describing the Jewish Wars at the beginning of the millennium.

 

[Andrewn]

The thing to note about the Rev 20 passage is that it is different than the Rev 19 war against the beast and false prophet (in Rev 20, these are already in the lake of fire). The Gog war described in Rev 20 is explicitly occurring after the Rev 19 defeat of the antichrist and false prophet (Revelation 10:20). Moreover, the Rev 19 war may or may not be the same as the 6th Bowl war ('Armageddon'). Because of Ezekiel 38:12, we know that Gog is attacking the millenial kingdom of 'Israel' - Gog is attacking the people who live at the 'center of the land'/ 'navel of the world'. This concept is related to the Deuteronomy blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience.

If the wars in Rev 19 & Rev 20 are different, it is more likely that the former describes Eze 38 & 39 and the Jewish Wars rather than the millennial kingdom of Israel.

This is what is going on in Rev 17 with Mystery Babylon, 'who rules the world' - meaning is receiving the blessings for being in the Christian 'millenium' but is going to get punished. As I've said a thousand times, Revelation is a great tribulation 'sandwich': great tribulation at the start of the Trumpets, then Dan 9:27 covenant, then another great tribulation at the 7th Trumpet. This 2nd great tribulation is when nation-state Israel is in the millenium.

This is a unique perspective. But the war in Rev 20 is against Christian saints, not nation-state Israel.

 

[Andrewn]

The church is currently only in Jerusalem?

Symbolic/spiritual language.

 

[Trivalee]

This is a Dispensational interpretation. It is hardly likely that mortals would not accept Jesus Christ even though he is on earth and ruling from Jerusalem at that time. Amillennialists would say that some mortals are not accepting Christ in the current realized millennium because they can't see Him.

For a start, I'm struggling to understand your grammar "it is hardly likely that...", so I will assume you believe every mortal will accept Christ during the millennium. If this is what you meant, then you are very wrong! Those referred to, as Gog and Magog are real mortals (flesh and blood); there is no basis to assume they are spirits or merely symbolic. And if they are mortals, they couldn't have been those that lived in this age who made it into the millennium because they won't be as many as the number described as the sand of the sea Rev 20:8.

 

[Zao is life]

Gog is a mountain tribe north of Assyria, and Magog is an area in eastern Turkey. In the book of Revelation, we read:

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, in order to gather them for battle; they are as numerous as the sands of the sea.9 They marched up over the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The war of Gog and Magog is described in detail in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.

My question is: What is being described in these passages? How is it interpreted in different traditions?

So IMO if people understand who the house of Israel is biblically after the death and resurrection of Christ (see Hosea 1:11; Romans 9:22-26 and Galatians 3:28); and if people understand that the prophets often come back to speaking about the same thing that they had been speaking about earlier in the same prophecy before changing the subject to a different but related topic, then people would understand how Ezekiel prophesied that Israel and Judah would be gathered back into "the land of their fathers" and joined into one nation in Ezekiel 36:16-18; Ezekiel 39:23-29; and Ezekiel 37:15-28.

Ezekiel Chapters 36-39 promise the whole house of Israel that the tabernacle of God will be in their midst forevermore; and Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 describe a new city and a new temple. The same promise is found in Revelation Chapters 7 & 21 which describes a new city, and the tabernacle of God dwelling among those who came out of great tribulation (those who overcame); and in Revelation Chapters 11 and 21, the tabernacle of God and the holy city are measured. Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 give detailed dimensions of a new city and tabernacle.

The river of Life and trees growing on either side of its banks producing fruit which is for the healing of the nations is seen running out from the temple in both Ezekiel and in the Revelation (Ezekiel 47:1-12; Revelation 22:1-2).

Revelation Chapter 20's thousand years closes with the armies of Gog / Magog coming against "the camp of the saints". In Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39, Gog & Magog's war is against the house of Israel and the house of Judah who had already been gathered back into the land of their fathers (Ezekiel 36:16-18 and Ezekiel 39:23-29). This is after the house of Israel and the house of Judah had been joined again into one nation (Ezekiel 37:15-28; Hosea 1:11; Galatians 3:28).

I believe that neither Ezekiel nor the Revelation are speaking about a tangible city and temple but about New Jerusalem and the temple of God in the midst of the people, who is Christ.

And I believe that there is still a lot hidden from us with regard to "measurements" of Ezekiel's temple and the sacrifices in it.

I believe there is too much similarity between the description of the heavenly temple in New Jerusalem and Ezekiel's temple, and the river of life is the key to how we should be viewing Ezekiel's temple, whether our understanding of it is complete or not (mine is not).

There is also the similarity between Isaiah 60 and Revelation's New Heavens and New Earth: Isaiah 60:1; Isaiah 60:5; Isaiah 60:11-12; Isaiah 60:20-21 compared with Revelation 21:22-27.

Ezekiel's temple cannot be both physical and spiritual. It's either one or the other, and I believe it's the latter, because Revelation uses the exact same descriptions about the world to come.

I also do not believe it's already here and came after Jesus' sacrifice for sins, His death and resurrection. Another reason why the thousand years cannot commence before His return either - because both Ezekiel Chapters 36-40's descriptions and Isaiah Chapter 60's descriptions match with the New Heavens and New Earth in the Revelation - which means that the thousand years and the New Heavens and New Earth both can only commence after the return of Christ, and at the same time.

The Gog-Magog war ends the thousand years in the Revelation, and it occurs following the house of Israel and house of Judah's being joined together into one stick and dwelling in peace and safety (unwallled villages) and prosperity in a land God promised to the seed of Abraham. The re-release of Satan is linked to the Gog-Magog war in Revelation 20.

When Adam had the right to eat of the tree of life freely in the garden, after who knows how long into God's sabbath after God had breathed eternal life into Adam who became a living soul, Satan was permitted by God to put mankind to the test. Until the fall Adam was living forever. He who is the resurrection and the life bore the penalty and the sin, died and rose again, and those who are in Him live forever. But there is a second death mentioned.

Ezekiel's temple cannot be both physical and spiritual. It's either one or the other, and I believe it's the latter, because Revelation uses the exact same descriptions about the world to come.

 

[tranquil]

If the wars in Rev 19 & Rev 20 are different, it is more likely that the former describes Eze 38 & 39 and the Jewish Wars rather than the millennial kingdom of Israel.


This is a unique perspective. But the war in Rev 20 is against Christian saints, not nation-state Israel.

I don't know what you mean by the 1st statement.

As to the 2nd, I am not dogmatic about Gog as it just seems to be a template of things that can easily be symbolic. But that said, the Gog war in Ezekiel is at least talking about nation Israel. The war in Rev 20 is against saints. It is possible that this takes place in the millenium (ie the millenium in the pre-millenial sense - the kingdom that is set up after the events of the Trumpets & bowls.)

Again, there will be a physical Israel presence in the millenium - nation-state Israel will be part of the millenial kingdom - the 12 tribes will receive their inheritance. Whether these DNA Israel would be called 'Christians', I don't know.

 

[tranquil]

So IMO if people understand who the house of Israel is biblically after the death and resurrection of Christ (see Hosea 1:11; Romans 9:22-26 and Galatians 3:28); and if people understand that the prophets often come back to speaking about the same thing that they had been speaking about earlier in the same prophecy before changing the subject to a different but related topic, then people would understand how Ezekiel prophesied that Israel and Judah would be gathered back into "the land of their fathers" and joined into one nation in Ezekiel 36:16-18; Ezekiel 39:23-29; and Ezekiel 37:15-28.

Ezekiel Chapters 36-39 promise the whole house of Israel that the tabernacle of God will be in their midst forevermore; and Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 describe a new city and a new temple. The same promise is found in Revelation Chapters 7 & 21 which describes a new city, and the tabernacle of God dwelling among those who came out of great tribulation (those who overcame); and in Revelation Chapters 11 and 21, the tabernacle of God and the holy city are measured. Ezekiel Chapters 40-48 give detailed dimensions of a new city and tabernacle.

The river of Life and trees growing on either side of its banks producing fruit which is for the healing of the nations is seen running out from the temple in both Ezekiel and in the Revelation (Ezekiel 47:1-12; Revelation 22:1-2).

Revelation Chapter 20's thousand years closes with the armies of Gog / Magog coming against "the camp of the saints". In Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39, Gog & Magog's war is against the house of Israel and the house of Judah who had already been gathered back into the land of their fathers (Ezekiel 36:16-18 and Ezekiel 39:23-29). This is after the house of Israel and the house of Judah had been joined again into one nation (Ezekiel 37:15-28; Hosea 1:11; Galatians 3:28).


The Gog-Magog war ends the thousand years in the Revelation, and it occurs following the house of Israel and house of Judah's being joined together into one stick and dwelling in peace and safety (unwallled villages) and prosperity in a land God promised to the seed of Abraham. The re-release of Satan is linked to the Gog-Magog war in Revelation 20.

When Adam had the right to eat of the tree of life freely in the garden, after who knows how long into God's sabbath after God had breathed eternal life into Adam who became a living soul, Satan was permitted by God to put mankind to the test. Until the fall Adam was living forever. He who is the resurrection and the life bore the penalty and the sin, died and rose again, and those who are in Him live forever. But there is a second death mentioned.

Ezekiel's temple cannot be both physical and spiritual. It's either one or the other, and I believe it's the latter, because Revelation uses the exact same descriptions about the world to come.

As I see it, Ezekiel's temple is both spiritual and physical.

There are a lot of '2 sticks' to be joined. And false prophets who imitate joining these sticks.

At the start of the Day of the Lord, for literal fulfillment sake, the 2 sticks of north & south Israel are joined/ have been joined into Israel. The church functions as the current 'millenial kingdom'. It is pre-millenial in terms of Israel being part of it.

Gog defiles the temple (let's just say the 'antichrist') (in the current millenial kingdom) (at the start of the Trumpets). The antichrist receives a mortal head wound and heals (at the 6th Trumpet). The false prophet joins 2 sticks with worship of the antichrist. How this plays out, who knows. If the pope is the false prophet, maybe the 2nd stick is joining the Orthodox / Eastern church with the Catholic church. The living image is defiling the spiritual temple (the current millenial kingdom).

Regardless, once the false prophet is disposed of at Rev 9:20-21, then the literal temple, Ezekiel's temple is made. DNA Israel would be part of the millenial kingdom.

At this same time we have another false prophet who arrives at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days. This literal temple is defiled with another living image (of the same person presumably) by Gog at the 7th Trumpet. This causes Armageddon (the 6th bowl of wrath). This results in the symbolic New Jerusalem.

Rev 20 is the attack on post millenial literal nation-state Israel in the symbolic New Jerusalem.

It is hard to parse out because the millenium is not well-defined, the 2 sticks can be symbolic, and the temple is symbolic.

 

[DavidPT]

A related question is whether the wars in Rev 19 and Rev 20 are the same. The war in Rev 19 ends w/ the beast & the false prophet in the LOF and Satan bound for 1000 years. The war in Rev 20 ends w/ Satan being thrown in the LOF and Christ coming for judgment.

For the sake of argument, let's suppose they are one and the same. Which then would mean these 7 years in question logically fit after the 2nd coming, and after the beast, the fp, and satan, have all been cast into the LOF. Which then means there is no time period following the 2nd coming that can explain this 7 years. IOW, we can't use the thousand years, per this scenario, to try and explain these 7 years post the 2nd coming.

And if these 7 years serve no purpose one way or the other, why are they recorded in Ezekiel 39 then? Are they not meaning once Gog and his multitude have been made bird food? If we look at verses 17-20 in Ezekiel 39 we see that it is men of war that God is getting rid of on this planet. And since this will be involving the 21st century, unless someone can prove these things have already been fulfilled, we then have to factor in modern weaponry, that it has to be gotten rid of as well. Unless one wants to propose by the time Christ returns, there will no longer be any modern weaponry on this planet because all of it was done away with and disposed of before He returns.

If we then compare to Revelation 20:7-9, IMO, there is no way in a million years can that battle be involving a war being fought with modern weaponry. That war is not involving countries, such as China and the USA, rising up against one another. That war is involving one united group rising up against another united group. One united group being the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. The other united group being the camp of saints.

The question then is, why is there this battle at the end of the millennium against the camp of saints? Keeping in mind, if this battle is at the end of the millennium, it can't also be during the millennium. But, if the millennium is now, and the fact the church has been attacked, and still is being attacked, going on 2000 years now, doesn't that already sound like this battle against the camp of saints has already been ongoing for 2000 years now? IOW, it appears contradictory since this battle has been raging for 2000 years now, except Revelation 20 records that the battle is after the millennium, not during it as well.

If we place the millennium after the 2nd coming, this then doesn't contradict the fact that the battle is after the millennium, and not during it as well, since, per this scenario, there is no battle in any sense taking place during the millennium. This would mean 2 battles, one prior to the beginning of the millennium, another one after the millennium. And why not? It's not like satan doesn't do things twice himself.

Does he not deceive the nations before the millennium, then after the millennium deceive the nations yet again? And shouldn't that add up to that he does those things twice, but at different times? And shouldn't that add up to that he deceives no nations during the millennium? Otherwise, how can he deceive the nations before the millennium, then deceive them after the millennium, if he is still deceiving them during the millennium? That doesn't add up to deceiving the nations twice, at different time. That adds up to deceiving the nations only once since he never stops deceiving them per this scenario.

 

[Timtofly]

Symbolic/spiritual language.

So Jerusalem is the spiritual and symbolic center of the world now?