Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)

Saint Steven

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The Lord doesn't walk with us like He did with Adam, or visit us like He did Abraham or speak with us like He did Moses and the Prophets.
Not sure why you two aren't on speaking terms. You should ask him. Oh wait... that won't work. Rats.
Elijah was a human being, even as we are.... - James 5:17 NIV
All we have of the Lord's words are in writing for us now.
My sheep hear my voice and follow.
 
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Saint Steven

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What I am saying is that there are things about our everyday lives that we are not told about in Scripture.
Maybe you don't believe that God wants you to do a particular job, live in a certain country, or part of a country; maybe you feel that he doesn't mind whether you marry or not, how many kids you have etc. Maybe you feel that God given common sense and wisdom is enough in all these matters. If you do, fine. But there are plenty of Christians who want to know God's will and God's leading in their everyday lives, and who pray before every decision, big or small. On THOSE occasions, the matter cannot be found in the Bible. You, yourself, have agreed with me that the Bible is not there to ell us the details of our day to day lives.
Yes, we can ask God for wisdom and the Spirit for guidance - and we do both those things because the Bible tells us to. But if someone says, "God led me to live in California and gave me a job in nursing", that statement cannot be backed up, or disproved, from Scripture. If you said to me, "God has led me to post on these forums", I cannot look in the Bible to prove, or disprove, that statement.
My point exactly. Well said.
Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)
You know the difference.

Do you have a personal testimony you can share about the leading of the Spirit? (God)
 
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sawdust

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But there are plenty of Christians who want to know God's will
Yes they do. It was the most common question I heard as a new Christian. My answer? Study the word.

The reason too many Christian's walk around afraid, confused not knowing where to go or what to do is not because the Spirit is failing in His job of leading but because they do not have enough doctrine (truth) in their soul categorized and stored away to act as a frame of reference in any given situation for the Spirit to act upon for He takes the things of Christ and makes them known and Christ is the Word.

The reason King David could say "the Lord is my Shepherd I lack for nothing" (Ps.23:1) is because he "hid the (written) word in his heart" (Ps.119:11)

If you said to me, "God has led me to post on these forums", I cannot look in the Bible to prove, or disprove, that statement.
That's because that is my personal business, strictly between me and the Lord. He doesn't parade people's personal lives around for all to see. We have just enough of personal history revealed in the scriptures for God to tell His story without going into every detail of their lives. Their examples lend credence to the veracity of God's word as well as inform us what is necessary (like hiding the word in our hearts ;) )

maybe you feel that he doesn't mind whether you marry or not, how many kids you have etc. Maybe you feel that God
People need to stop "feeling" and start thinking. Feelings come and feelings go. Only the blind feel their way through life. ;) :)
 
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sawdust

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Not sure why you two aren't on speaking terms. You should ask him. Oh wait... that won't work. Rats.
Elijah was a human being, even as we are.... - James 5:17 NIV

My sheep hear my voice and follow.
Well if your hearing voices and seeing people who are not there Steven I strongly recommend you get yourself onto medication. :)
 
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Strong in Him

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Well if your hearing voices and seeing people who are not there Steven I strongly recommend you get yourself onto medication. :)
Are you suggesting that God can't speak to us today?
 
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Strong in Him

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Yes they do. It was the most common question I heard as a new Christian. My answer? Study the word.

Which doesn't tell us if we should be a nurse or a teacher; stay in our country or go abroad.
You have already agreed with me that the Bible doesn't give us detailed instructions about our day to day life. As that was my point all along, I don't see what the problem is.
That's because that is my personal business, strictly between me and the Lord.
And the word, or guidance, that you believed that God had given you could not be verified in the Bible.
Again, that is my point; God can speak to us about, and give us guidance for, our lives, and those words cannot be backed, or proved, by Scripture. The person themselves may be fully convinced they are from God; we cannot be. And neither of us can look in the Bible to confirm if God is telling Bill Smith to move from London to Paris.

People need to stop "feeling" and start thinking. Feelings come and feelings go.
If you notice, I said "maybe YOU feel."
But I didn't mean it in the sense of emotional feeling - people often use the word "feel" when they actually mean "think" or "believe".
So, "maybe you believe that it doesn't matter to God who you marry" etc.
 
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Strong in Him

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My point exactly. Well said.
Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)
You know the difference.

Do you have a personal testimony you can share about the leading of the Spirit? (God)
God leads, and has led, me many times and in different ways.
Sometimes I have had a strong impression that I should go somewhere or do something, and that has led to meeting a person, getting news of a work, or volunteering, opportunity, or hearing news of an illness that has resulted in a visit to that person.
Sometimes I have done something without really knowing why I was doing it, it's led to something else and yet it may have all appeared to have "just happened". This has led to comments, from non Christians, like, "that was lucky", "right place, right time", "the universe is telling you to/you're meant to". I don't believe in luck, coincidence or the universe telling me something; I believe in God's guidance.

Three specific examples come to mind.
I don't drive. Years ago, when I was ill with M.E. it was very difficult to get around, and to church in particular. One day, my Minister was praying with me and specifically asked that I might be able to get around a little better/my transport problem would be solved. Some time after that, I woke at 9.00 a.m. one day (this was very early for me, it was usually around 10.15) and thought "I need to go to Woking" (a town in Surrey, UK.) When I got there, I went to hire a scooter from the mobility shop and discovered that they were selling off old stock. So I ended the day with a mobility scooter which, though old and quite slow, did the job and I was able to get to church etc.

Years ago, I was training as a lay preacher in my church, and I was also the senior steward. I still had M.E. so this was more than enough for me, yet one day I strongly felt that I was being asked to apply for a job as a lay worker in the church. I actually told God that it was ridiculous, that I hadn't got the energy for such a job, and that there wasn't time before the deadline. I did pluck up the courage to ring for an application form, thinking it would do little good. I later heard that the Minister had been told that I wanted to apply and, even though the deadline was that day, immediately replied "extend the deadline." I went for an interview for the job, and spent the evening waiting for the phone to ring because I knew I would be offered it. I was.

A few months after moving to our current address I woke up one morning, literally with the thought "I'm going to Bala today". (Bala, in Wales, has an exhibition about Mary Jones - the girl who saved up for a Bible, walked 25 miles to a Minister's house to get one, found that he didn't have any left, but was later given 3 Bibles to keep, or give away to others. This incident led to the founding of the British and Foreign Bible Society.)
Anyway, on the way to Bala, we passed a local park which was hosting a Charity fair. My husband stopped and allowed me to have a quick look round, as he knew I wanted to start some voluntary work. I spent several minutes at one of the stalls and then, on the way out, passed a stall that was being run by The Samaritans. I knew a little about them, so I stopped, briefly, to say, "you do great work". Before I knew it, someone gave me an invitation to an information evening - and I've now been there for 5 years.

In each of the above I believed that God led, or guided, me. I couldn't check it out by looking in the Bible, because, though the Bible says that God will guide us, it doesn't give details, or instructions, about applying for specific jobs, and so on.
 
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Saint Steven

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God leads, and has led, me many times and in different ways.
Sometimes I have had a strong impression that I should go somewhere or do something, and that has led to meeting a person, getting news of a work, or volunteering, opportunity, or hearing news of an illness that has resulted in a visit to that person.
Sometimes I have done something without really knowing why I was doing it, it's led to something else and yet it may have all appeared to have "just happened". This has led to comments, from non Christians, like, "that was lucky", "right place, right time", "the universe is telling you to/you're meant to". I don't believe in luck, coincidence or the universe telling me something; I believe in God's guidance.
Well said.
Thanks for your post, and especially the personal testimonies. Solid gold.
 
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sawdust

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Are you suggesting that God can't speak to us today?
I'm not suggesting, I am saying outright God does not speak to people audibly today.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

The Son is the Word. We have the information we need in written form. When need arises in our lives to know something, the Spirit brings into our mind the word of God or sound teaching we have received of the word of God. It is the lack of these that leaves far too many Christians confused and doubting.
 
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I'm not suggesting, I am saying outright God does not speak to people audibly today.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

The Son is the Word. We have the information we need in written form. When need arises in our lives to know something, the Spirit brings into our mind the word of God or sound teaching we have received of the word of God. It is the lack of these that leaves far too many Christians confused and doubting.
Here is a question: There is an elder in your church that is secretly addicted to inappropriate content and is regularly visiting prostitutes. Not even his wife knows this secret life that he has. Now, if the Holy Spirit does not speak directly through the word of knowledge today, how is He going to alert the pastors and other elders of the sinning elder's hypocrisy that could serious harm the church and bring disrepute to the ministry of the church?
 
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sawdust

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Which doesn't tell us if we should be a nurse or a teacher; stay in our country or go abroad.
You have already agreed with me that the Bible doesn't give us detailed instructions about our day to day life. As that was my point all along, I don't see what the problem is.
Yes, I agree with you on your point and you acknowledge I agree but what you are failing to see is my point and that is: There are scriptures and biblical rationales that can inform you whether you are indeed walking in the Spirit or not. You don't have to walk in ignorance or confusion that comes from not knowing the specific details. You can know with certainty that you are walking in the Spirit or not if you know the scriptures. Obviously I can't give you all the information you need in a post or two as it has taken me years of study and application to learn the difference between walking according to the Spirit and walking according to the flesh.

You gave a list of experiences of being led of the Spirit. How do you know it was God leading you into prosperity and not Satan? Satan can act as an angel of light ( 2 Corinthians 11:14 ). He wants people to prosper too.

This thread is titled "Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)" but there is no such thing as either/or in respect to the leading. It is the word the Spirit uses to lead people. It is the word we use to test the spirits. ( 1 John 4:1 ) It is by the word we can know we are to be filled. It is by the word we can know how to walk by the Spirit. It is by the word we can know the difference between following the Spirit and following our own desires.

False teachers are able to rise up because of threads like this where people seem to think that getting a hunch or having an idea pop into their head is what it means to be led of the Spirit. We do not learn how to be led by impulse or hunch or a spontaneous idea. All these things can lead you to disaster if you are unaware of what the scriptures teach.

You don't need to know every single detail of your everyday life because the mind that is stayed on thee will find perfect peace. Isaiah 26:3 The soul that is heavy laden will find rest. Matthew 11:28 The person who is overpowered by their own weaknesses and sin will find freedom in the truth. John 8:32 You will know if you are walking by faith because you will have confidence in God and courage before men. Hebrews 11:1

We don't need a verse for every instance of our lives because we have a whole Bible to govern us and teach us and correct us and ultimately if we are indeed learning and applying the word our lives we become, as it were, a mini bible reflecting the Son (He is the Word) because we are meant to be growing up into the full stature of Him.

If we do not have our foundation laid by the word of God we will have no idea where any prompting ( no matter the means) is coming from and worse still is that we can find ourselves way off course when it is far too late.

This is all I am going to say on the matter otherwise we will just keep going back and forth. :)
 
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sawdust

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Well he did to me; that's how I became a Christian.
And is that how the Spirit leads you every day or was that a once off to get your attention?

I have seen the risen Christ and the Spirit has spoken to me audibly in my head on two occasions (He quoted scripture actually) but that is not being led. That is a wake up call. The Lord will work in extraordinary ways at times to get peoples attention. We see it at the Exodus, amongst the OT prophets, the First Advent and early Church. Just because the Lord in His mercy will use miraculous means at times doesn't mean that is the way we are to live each day. Not that every day with the Lord isn't a miracle but I think you know the sort of miraculous I'm talking about. :)
 
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Yes, I agree with you on your point and you acknowledge I agree but what you are failing to see is my point and that is: There are scriptures and biblical rationales that can inform you whether you are indeed walking in the Spirit or not. You don't have to walk in ignorance or confusion that comes from not knowing the specific details. You can know with certainty that you are walking in the Spirit or not if you know the scriptures. Obviously I can't give you all the information you need in a post or two as it has taken me years of study and application to learn the difference between walking according to the Spirit and walking according to the flesh.

You gave a list of experiences of being led of the Spirit. How do you know it was God leading you into prosperity and not Satan? Satan can act as an angel of light ( 2 Corinthians 11:14 ). He wants people to prosper too.

This thread is titled "Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)" but there is no such thing as either/or in respect to the leading. It is the word the Spirit uses to lead people. It is the word we use to test the spirits. ( 1 John 4:1 ) It is by the word we can know we are to be filled. It is by the word we can know how to walk by the Spirit. It is by the word we can know the difference between following the Spirit and following our own desires.

False teachers are able to rise up because of threads like this where people seem to think that getting a hunch or having an idea pop into their head is what it means to be led of the Spirit. We do not learn how to be led by impulse or hunch or a spontaneous idea. All these things can lead you to disaster if you are unaware of what the scriptures teach.

You don't need to know every single detail of your everyday life because the mind that is stayed on thee will find perfect peace. Isaiah 26:3 The soul that is heavy laden will find rest. Matthew 11:28 The person who is overpowered by their own weaknesses and sin will find freedom in the truth. John 8:32 You will know if you are walking by faith because you will have confidence in God and courage before men. Hebrews 11:1

We don't need a verse for every instance of our lives because we have a whole Bible to govern us and teach us and correct us and ultimately if we are indeed learning and applying the word our lives we become, as it were, a mini bible reflecting the Son (He is the Word) because we are meant to be growing up into the full stature of Him.

If we do not have our foundation laid by the word of God we will have no idea where any prompting ( no matter the means) is coming from and worse still is that we can find ourselves way off course when it is far too late.

This is all I am going to say on the matter otherwise we will just keep going back and forth. :)
I am having doubts about whether I am truly being led of the Spirit because people don't see that Jesus is real and are not convicted of sin when they meet up with me. If the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment to come, then if the Spirit is flowing out of my life, then that should happen. Perhaps I am just paddling around up to my ankles in the spiritual river, and maybe I should through prayer and the Word go deeper, up to my knees, my middle, or even start swimming.
 
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sawdust

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Here is a question: There is an elder in your church that is secretly addicted to inappropriate content and is regularly visiting prostitutes. Not even his wife knows this secret life that he has. Now, if the Holy Spirit does not speak directly through the word of knowledge today, how is He going to alert the pastors and other elders of the sinning elder's hypocrisy that could serious harm the church and bring disrepute to the ministry of the church?
If it is causing harm to the congregation then there would be evidence. And if there is evidence the Pastor should deal quickly with the offender. He doesn't need a word of knowledge to see the obvious. I've heard of Pastors who had "a word of knowledge" as being the one's who caused harm to the congregation so I don't see how it is a thing to protect the congregation. On the other hand, sound doctrinal teaching will keep the wolves at the door. That way everyone "who has an ear" will see the liars and cheats.

People seem to forget that the Church entered a whole new way of living when it began. They needed words of knowledge and wisdom, they needed the apostles and prophets for they had no foundation in writing to instruct them. But we do have the whole counsel of God now and we have all the instruction we need written down. We just need Pastors who faithfully dedicate themselves to it's study so they can teach doctrine correctly. There are some out there but there are far too many false teachers out there as well.
 
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sawdust

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I am having doubts about whether I am truly being led of the Spirit because people don't see that Jesus is real and are not convicted of sin when they meet up with me. If the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment to come, then if the Spirit is flowing out of my life, then that should happen. Perhaps I am just paddling around up to my ankles in the spiritual river, and maybe I should through prayer and the Word go deeper, up to my knees, my middle, or even start swimming.
Well it's your life mate. You will have to work it out with the Lord. No-one appointed me to be your judge or your teacher. :)

ps. I would normally say "I'll keep you in my prayers" but I have a hunch you are being facetious. :)

Mind you, I will still keep you in my prayers because the scriptures tell us to pray for one another. ;)
 
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Strong in Him

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You gave a list of experiences of being led of the Spirit. How do you know it was God leading you into prosperity and not Satan? Satan can act as an angel of light ( 2 Corinthians 11:14 ). He wants people to prosper too.
Satan might allow people to prosper, because he can then focus their attention on their wealth/possessions and keep them away from God.
If he allowed Christians to prosper, he would soon stop when he found that God got the glory and not him. So IF he had given me that job as a lay worker, which I dispute, it backfired big time. HE got no glory, or recognition, at all from it.

By the way, to take something which is from God and attribute it to the devil, is not only unwise, it's dangerous.
 
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Strong in Him

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And is that how the Spirit leads you every day or was that a once off to get your attention?
No, he doesn't lead me that way every day, but that was not what you said.
Your post, #149, said "I am saying outright God does not speak to people audibly today.
I have seen the risen Christ and the Spirit has spoken to me audibly in my head on two occasions
There you are then; you have just disproved your own statement that God does not speak audibly today.
 
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People seem to forget that the Church entered a whole new way of living when it began. They needed words of knowledge and wisdom, they needed the apostles and prophets for they had no foundation in writing to instruct them. But we do have the whole counsel of God now and we have all the instruction we need written down.
You seem to be saying that we don't need the gifts of the Spirit now because we have the Bible, and that we don't need the Spirit to lead us today, because the Bible tells us to ask God for wisdom.
 
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No, he doesn't lead me that way every day, but that was not what you said.
Your post, #149, said "I am saying outright God does not speak to people audibly today.
Yes because the context of this thread is being led by the Spirit which is an everyday occurrence, not a one time thing. If you want to talk about the many and varied ways God has spoken to people down through the ages, that's another thread.
 
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