Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)

[Strong in Him]

Well actually the bible does tell us how we can determine who to marry, or which builder to choose to fix the church roof.

It doesn't give us the answer though - it was never designed to.
In our everyday lives, we rely on the Spirit for guidance and God for wisdom. Both will give these things, but there is still an element of our own choice, own decisions, own feelings.

 

[GDL]

Good food for thought & discussion of the topic.

I see someone who is clearly homeless on the street, I've just picked up some food for myself, do I give some of my food to the homeless person or not?

What if you don't see the person and receive a prompting to turn around and look? The Word tells you to do. The Spirit tells you to turn around and look. I think this is the type of thing that is frequently discussed.

Does the Holy Spirit operate in my life by granting me special private revelations, or does He call to mind what has been given already?

I think both. The first part of this is what I addressed in an earlier post. By "special private" you may mean apart from Scripture, while I may mean about Scripture - a deeper understanding of something you did not know before it was revealed to you - more of His Spirit/more of His Word. This is not remembrance. This is a deeper understanding - special and private although possibly or probably not unique.

That there's no scenario where the Holy Spirit speaks outside of what He has already said

An interesting statement and surely a part of the point of the discussion. Partially addressed in the first point above. I'm not aware that He has said that He will cause you to look at things you may not see. But I do not close the door on this taking place.

Perhaps this brother's conscience is bothered, but to claim the Spirit spoke to him and now he is giving an authoritative moral instruction for all the Faithful specifically contravenes the injunction of Scripture to abide by our conscience. His conscience is bothered, but mine is not

Agree with the weaker conscience not mandating moral instruction. Based upon Scripture like 1Cor8 I'd have to question what you're saying about handling the weaker conscience of others.

Do I believe that the cliam of others who say the Holy Spirit has uniquely told them something and then treat it as a universally binding authority upon the conscience of all the Faithful?

Again, any such mandating apart from Scripture I don't see as at issue here. I may be wrong about this thread, but I think the discussion is more related to the first point above. Maybe also about our discussion in the second point.

Thanks for the detailed response.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

After previously on CF, I have defended Sola Scriptura, and have had some spirited debates with my friend Carl Emerson about it. But in the face of good testimonies I have read, I have had to do a bit of U-turn.

I firmly believe that in matters of sound Biblical doctrine, Sola Scriptura still stands in my view. Since the establishment of the Canon of Scripture, there is no new revelation outside of what has already been written. That's pretty non-negotiable for me.

However, there are operational areas where the Holy Spirit needs to speak directly through prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom and discerning of spirits. Of course, we know that churches that teach cessationist doctrine are pretty adamant that those spiritual gifts ceased at the death of the last Apostle, and that the Apostles and Prophets of the First Century are the sole foundation of the body of Christ, and so there are no modern apostles or prophets. That is an area of debate which I won't go into. I personally believe that there are modern apostles and prophets, but not as the NAR are teaching.

But I will describe a scenario which I believe is happening in many if not most of our churches that don't accept that the Holy Spirit speaks through prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom and discernment of spirits today.

Here is the picture. There is an elder in the church who is addicted to inappropriate content and visiting prostitutes in the city on Saturday nights, and he comes to church on Sunday appearing to be a very saintly person who is widely respected in the church. The worship leader of the church is a respected businessman, but as the accountant in a successful business, he has been cooking the books and stealing money for his personal use. Also the pastor is having a secret adulterous affair with the church secretary.

The church is losing members because the services have become lifeless, and the preaching, although expository from the Bible with sound doctrine, has become boring and uninspiring. No one knows why, although the church was alive and winning souls to Christ several years before, it is now failing, losing its youth, and faithful long-standing members, and is no longer winning souls to Christ. Overall the church is dying and no one really knows exactly why. They have had planning meetings, tried new projects, upgraded the music, but to no avail. Something is wrong, but no one knows why.

Then a deacon who is not cessationist, announces in the elders/deacons management meeting that he has a word of knowledge about what is wrong. But he is immediately shut down by the others because "we don't believe in that sort of thing here. God speaks only through the Bible and no way else." So the deacon can't share his word of knowledge, so he is frustrated, resigns and leaves the church.

So over the next year or so, the church continues to decline, the pastor is let go because they can no longer afford to pay him, and eventually, the church closes its doors and the building is sold and is now a community crafts centre.

I wonder, if that deacon had been allowed to share his word of knowledge, the secret sin of those members and pastor would have been exposes and appropriate correction applied, that church might have recovered and been restored to it previous successful ministry?

Even though this is a fictional scenario, I wonder if this is happening in many churches that don't believe that the Holy Spirit can speak ex-Biblically in matters outside of basic sound Biblical doctrine - that the Holy Spirit can warn a traveller to change his flight booking because He knows that the aircraft is going to crash and all on that flight will lose their lives? Or the Holy Spirit can speak to a member to go and share the Gospel with a friend, and the friend is ready to hear and give his life to Christ? There have been testimonies of words of knowledge revealing secrets like inappropriate content addiction, embezzlement of funds, adulterous affairs, and words of wisdom showing leaders how to deal with these sins without blowing up and dividing the church. Also the discerning of spirits to reveal that a member who is displaying bizarre behaviour is influenced by a demon and needs deliverance. A cessationist church that does not believe that the Holy Spirit speaks this way is basically helpless at resolving many problems that may exist in that church, and the scenario that I have previously described may really happen and the church ends up closing its doors. This actually happened in an Auckland Bethel church. It was revealed that the pastor had an adulterous affair with a 16 year old member, and ended up leaving his wife and running off with her. As a result, the church was destroyed and had to close.

There are many reasons why a church seems to lack the necessary power to perform its ministry, and secret sinful behaviour undetected because the gifts of the Spirit are not being used, may be one of the obvious reasons.

So we are always learning and being prepared to change our views when using basic common sense. One can be so locked into a narrow view of doctrine that they can have a blind spot to what is going on around them.

 

[GDL]

NKJ 1 Tim5:19-20 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. 20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's covered.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Psalm 9:1
I will praise You, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will tell of all Your marvelous works.

Psalm 78:4
We will not hide them from their children, Telling to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, And His strength and His wonderful works that He has done.

There are many more scriptures that encourage us to speak of the Lord to others. You don't need the Spirit to tell you to go forth and proclaim the name of Christ.

Thanks, but that's not what I meant.

I meant to a specific person, for a divine encounter. Something God prepared for a specific individual.

 

[sawdust]

Yes - but the word doesn't tell us everything to do with our everyday lives.

John 10:10

The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

What part of our everyday life do you think Jesus forgot to cover?

Even being filled with the Spirit, I'm not going to assume that all my thoughts are guidance from God.
"That's a good idea, God must want that", is an assumption I've made too often in the past.

Well that's good. (the first part not the second )

Again, it's why we study the word and learn to think with it. Also learning to keep our eyes fixed on the source of all righteousness. Jesus kept His focus on the Father, we must learn to do the same through our Lord.

The Spirit does not make Himself known, He makes the Lord Jesus Christ known, who in turn makes the Father known. This emphasis, in many circles, on the Spirit is misguided at best, dangerous at worst for it distracts us from the required study of the word.

(and I am not suggesting this is you, I have always valued your input even when we have disagreed)

 

[sawdust]

Thanks, but that's not what I meant.

I meant to a specific person, for a divine encounter. Something God prepared for a specific individual.

I know what you meant Steven.

I can recount many stories (mine and others) where an individual was ministered to without being "told" to go to them. The only reason I know is because the recipients cared to share the blessing they received. Their lives are none of anyone's business but theirs and Gods. You see a need, you fill it (if it's within your power) or you see a situation and you do what's right. No-one needs special instructions. Every instruction for a life of right living is in the word. Where you are ignorant, the Lord will lead, if you are indeed being led of the Spirit and guess where that leading will end up?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks.

So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60.
Source: What is a successful (good) creation for God?


Here's the background info that "led" to this statement which preceded this quote.
Since it was a bit off-topic, I wanted to create its own topic.

Begin quote:
"The difference between being led by the Spirit and being led by the Word. (Bible)
This is dangerous territory, and I'm likely to ruffle some feathers. WWJD?

I have wanted to address the issue of Christians feeling "led" to do something with a scriptural defense.
Actually considered this originally while reading the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis. (the toast)

The 'thing" they are being led to do seems innocent to them and they can easily defend it, both rationally and biblically.
So... what could go wrong? (plenty)

The problem is that we never know enough of the behind-the-scenes activity to make either a correct rational, or biblical-based, decision.
And we don't need to know. God knows.

Both the serpent in the garden and the Devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness used the Word to deceive.
But the enemy is unable to use the Spirit in that way. Best he can do is counterfeit it.
A fully developed spiritual discernment is the only antidote. IMHO"
- End quote
(add the quoted bit above to cap the statement)

A couple of scriptures to consider. (the Word) I know, I know...
Notice that being led by the Spirit (not the Word) produces the fruit of the Spirit.
Why does it come from the Spirit and not the Word?

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-23 NIV
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ... [19-21]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

Matthew 4:1 NIV
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Acts 8:29, 39-40 NIV
29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” ...
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about,
preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

There is no vs when it comes to the Word and the Spirit- 2 sides of the same coin- you cannot have one without the other. One cannot know let alone understand the Word apart from the Spirit and the Spirit does not act apart from the truth in the word. Sanctify them in truth, thy word is Truth.

1 Corinthians 2
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit​

6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[b]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[d]
But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Good food for thought & discussion of the topic.

What if you don't see the person and receive a prompting to turn around and look? The Word tells you to do. The Spirit tells you to turn around and look. I think this is the type of thing that is frequently discussed.

I think both. The first part of this is what I addressed in an earlier post. By "special private" you may mean apart from Scripture, while I may mean about Scripture - a deeper understanding of something you did not know before it was revealed to you - more of His Spirit/more of His Word. This is not remembrance. This is a deeper understanding - special and private although possibly or probably not unique.

An interesting statement and surely a part of the point of the discussion. Partially addressed in the first point above. I'm not aware that He has said that He will cause you to look at things you may not see. But I do not close the door on this taking place.

Agree with the weaker conscience not mandating moral instruction. Based upon Scripture like 1Cor8 I'd have to question what you're saying about handling the weaker conscience of others.

Again, any such mandating apart from Scripture I don't see as at issue here. I may be wrong about this thread, but I think the discussion is more related to the first point above. Maybe also about our discussion in the second point.

Thanks for the detailed response.

On a basic level: Apart from God's word, how does one make any distinction between the Holy Spirit, intuition, conscience, or simple subjective feeling?

I certainly hope that, as I abide in Christ through faith that the Holy Spirit is at work shaping and working on my intuition, conscience, etc; so that my conscience is guided by the things of God. But what is the difference between "The Holy Spirit prompting" and "my gut instinct is"? Do we associate every correct guess of gut instinct to be a supernatural product of the Spirit and every false guess to be merely us?

I simply don't see a pathway here that doesn't lead toward trying to divine the mind and will of God by my own subjective thoughts and feelings.

If we talk about the way the Holy Spirit is at work on us and shaping and guiding our conscience by the word of God; or the ways which the Holy Spirit can enrich us with deeper knowledge of the Scriptures--though, not apart from the consensus of the faithful in the historic Church, nothing should be considered biblical that isn't, in fact, biblical--But I see these things, again, as the the Holy Spirit at work through Word and Sacrament, through the ordinary means which God has given His Church from the beginning.

Perhaps, if God so wills, the Holy Spirit will tell me to duck so I don't get hit by a stray baseball. That's certainly within the realm of what is possible. But should I go around assuming that this is how the Holy Spirit is present and at work and speaking to me? Or, instead, do I rely on what has been given: For the Lord Jesus promised His apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth, and so after the Lord ascended and the Holy Spirit was given, the apostles began their work and they gave wherever they went the teaching they had received. Their words and teachings preserved for us, as given to the churches, in the New Testament--and in the living memory of the Faithful who preserved and held to the writings which make up the New Testament. So that we can trust in the reliability of the apostolic word which has been preserved for us in Holy Scripture. And this same apostolic authority and ministry is exercised wherever God's word is proclaimed and preached. So every Sunday, from pulpits around the world, Christ speaks through the Law, the Prophets, and the Apostles that we might be built up, edified, and God's work being accomplished in and for us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Strong in Him]

John 10:10

The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

What part of our everyday life do you think Jesus forgot to cover?

The Bible reveals God, his nature, his will and his plan of salvation to us. It tells us about Jesus - foretold in the OT, revealed in the New. It tells us how to serve God, to proclaim the Gospel, what values to live by, how to be salt and light and how to be filled with the Spirit so that we have the strength, and the gifts, to do these things.
The Bible tells us all we need to know about the faith and salvation. There is no other book which can do this, there is no opportunity to add to the Bible and if anyone claims that God revealed a truth to them, but that truth/doctrine is not taught in Scripture; the person who claimed it is wrong.
The Bible is God's word and erroneous.

The Bible does not "cover our everyday life". It does not tell us where were should live, what job/car we should have, what church to go to, whether to marry and have kids, what school/university to send them to. If we can't have children, it doesn't advise on IVF or surrogacy.
Yes, of course we can find the answer to these questions, or God's will on the subject - by prayer, by asking his for wisdom and by the guidance of the Spirit. I'm not disputing any of that.
What I'm saying is that we will not find the answer to those questions in the Bible - there is no verse which advises on the kind of computer/car/watch/house to buy.

Abundant life does not consist of possessions.

 

[Saint Steven]

Saint Steven said:

Thanks, but that's not what I meant.
I meant to a specific person, for a divine encounter. Something God prepared for a specific individual.

I know what you meant Steven.

I'm NOT discounting the Word. (the Bible)

Certainly when the Spirit points out a complete stranger to me out in public I will need everything I have learned from the Bible and from my life experience (in the Spirit) with God in that moment. But I can also be assured that the Spirit has paved the way for me. A good work prepared in advance for me to walk in. (Eph.2:10) Does the Bible prepare these things in advance for us to walk in? No, the Spirit does. Did the Bible alert us that it would happen? Yes.

Why is it that you are fighting me every inch of the way on the subject of the Spirit's leading? To what end?
Do you hope that I will close my ears to the Spirit? Not sure what this resistance is about.

 

[Saint Steven]

There is no vs when it comes to the Word and the Spirit- 2 sides of the same coin- you cannot have one without the other. One cannot know let alone understand the Word apart from the Spirit and the Spirit does not act apart from the truth in the word. Sanctify them in truth, thy word is Truth.

I agree in general. Thanks for weighing in on this.

I am separating the two in order to discuss them individually, or more to the point, to discuss the Spirit's leading beyond (and before) the pages of the Bible. Here we are at page seven of this topic. Notice how many respondents are really struggling to understand this. Seems to be a good topic. IMHO

And interestingly, the balance of your post shows that you understand the difference.

Our Bible was canonized in the fourth century. By what primarily was the early church led? The Bible, or the Spirit? I don't recall anything in 1 Corinthians twelve through fourteen about the Word. (the Bible) I don't think the early church was even in possession of OT scrolls. Which were the property of the synagogue.

Even the Apostle Paul, as you quoted (1 Corinthians 2:4) did not depend and wise and persuasive words of preaching, but "a demonstration of the Spirit’s power". Not parlor tricks, obviously, but Spirit-led demonstrations. And continuing in that chapter you quoted verses ten and sixteen.

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

What things?
9 ...
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”

And we have MORE than the written Word (the Bible)
16 ...
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[d]
But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[sawdust]

Why is it that you are fighting me every inch of the way on the subject of the Spirit's leading? To what end?

Because your OP was pitting the Spirit against the word. I have not said there is anything wrong with being led of the Spirit. Indeed, we are commanded to be led by Him. But how will you know it is the Spirit that is leading? Only by knowing "what is written". The Spirit is unseen and unheard.

Do you hope that I will close my ears to the Spirit? Not sure what this resistance is about.

It is the word we hear not the Spirit. (Rom.10:17)

Maybe I'm not the one resisting.

 

[sawdust]

What I'm saying is that we will not find the answer to those questions in the Bible - there is no verse which advises on the kind of computer/car/watch/house to buy.

sigh ... how will you ever qualify to rule nations if you can't even rule your own life in the light of God's grace provision.

God gave us brains to work out the sorts of things you mention. It would be utter lunacy for God to enter into scripture everyone's personal needs. Yet, He has given us plenty of scriptures that deal with the sort of attitudes and expectations we should have in regards to possessions.

The experiential reality is, even if you pray and ask for wisdom, you still have to walk by faith and not by sight. You won't get a voice speaking from out of the blue, no prophet will be knocking on your door with "thus sayeth the Lord" nor will you be carried off to heaven and be given a vision. You will have to step out into the "waters of your own ignorance and uncertainty" simply trusting the Lord to lead you in the right paths. If you do head the wrong way? Well, even Balaam's donkey got the message and you are far more than a donkey.

The fact is one cannot see the Spirit, cannot hear the Spirit, cannot feel the Spirit. There is only one way to be led by the Spirit and that is to know the written word accurately.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I agree in general. Thanks for weighing in on this.

I am separating the two in order to discuss them individually, or more to the point, to discuss the Spirit's leading beyond (and before) the pages of the Bible. Here we are at page seven of this topic. Notice how many respondents are really struggling to understand this. Seems to be a good topic. IMHO

And interestingly, the balance of your post shows that you understand the difference.

Our Bible was canonized in the fourth century. By what primarily was the early church led? The Bible, or the Spirit? I don't recall anything in 1 Corinthians twelve through fourteen about the Word. (the Bible) I don't think the early church was even in possession of OT scrolls. Which were the property of the synagogue.

Even the Apostle Paul, as you quoted (1 Corinthians 2:4) did not depend and wise and persuasive words of preaching, but "a demonstration of the Spirit’s power". Not parlor tricks, obviously, but Spirit-led demonstrations. And continuing in that chapter you quoted verses ten and sixteen.

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

What things?
9 ...
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”

And we have MORE than the written Word (the Bible)
16 ...
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[d]
But we have the mind of Christ.

I will let the Bible speak on the issue of Scripture during the days of the Apostles. Peter when writing his letter below already held the view that Paul's letters/epistles were considered Scripture on par with the Old Testament.

2 Peter 3:15-16
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Strong in Him]

sigh ... how will you ever qualify to rule nations if you can't even rule your own life in the light of God's grace provision.

God gave us brains to work out the sorts of things you mention. It would be utter lunacy for God to enter into scripture everyone's personal needs.

I know.
And that's my only point - that not everything we need, or want, in our day to day lives is found in the Bible.
FWIW, I'm not one of those who need a Bible verse for everything - just as well. And also, fwiw, I don't think God really minds too much what career we choose or church we go to. I think, and know, that if we ask him he will tell us - either by giving us the wisdom/common sense to think about it and decide, or some other way.

But this thread is about the Spirit or the Bible - and Christians cannot find an answer to questions like, "what church should I go to?" by reading the Bible. As you correctly say, Scripture is not there to answer everyone's personal needs.

 

[GDL]

On a basic level: Apart from God's word, how does one make any distinction between the Holy Spirit, intuition, conscience, or simple subjective feeling?

I certainly hope that, as I abide in Christ through faith that the Holy Spirit is at work shaping and working on my intuition, conscience, etc; so that my conscience is guided by the things of God. But what is the difference between "The Holy Spirit prompting" and "my gut instinct is"? Do we associate every correct guess of gut instinct to be a supernatural product of the Spirit and every false guess to be merely us?

I simply don't see a pathway here that doesn't lead toward trying to divine the mind and will of God by my own subjective thoughts and feelings.

If we talk about the way the Holy Spirit is at work on us and shaping and guiding our conscience by the word of God; or the ways which the Holy Spirit can enrich us with deeper knowledge of the Scriptures--though, not apart from the consensus of the faithful in the historic Church, nothing should be considered biblical that isn't, in fact, biblical--But I see these things, again, as the the Holy Spirit at work through Word and Sacrament, through the ordinary means which God has given His Church from the beginning.

Perhaps, if God so wills, the Holy Spirit will tell me to duck so I don't get hit by a stray baseball. That's certainly within the realm of what is possible. But should I go around assuming that this is how the Holy Spirit is present and at work and speaking to me? Or, instead, do I rely on what has been given: For the Lord Jesus promised His apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth, and so after the Lord ascended and the Holy Spirit was given, the apostles began their work and they gave wherever they went the teaching they had received. Their words and teachings preserved for us, as given to the churches, in the New Testament--and in the living memory of the Faithful who preserved and held to the writings which make up the New Testament. So that we can trust in the reliability of the apostolic word which has been preserved for us in Holy Scripture. And this same apostolic authority and ministry is exercised wherever God's word is proclaimed and preached. So every Sunday, from pulpits around the world, Christ speaks through the Law, the Prophets, and the Apostles that we might be built up, edified, and God's work being accomplished in and for us.

-CryptoLutheran

I get what you're saying, and your questions are some that I have pondered and discussed mainly with a fellow student in Seminary a few decades ago. At one point the question he raised in the discussion was, "where does a thought come from?" In the context of the discussion, we were pretty much done. What is a thought? How does this work?

Jesus who was said to have the Spirit without measure was able to say in essence that He always said what He heard the Father say and always did what He saw the Father do. He and the Father are one. He in Me and Me in Him.

I think this discussion is pretty much about being told to duck for baseballs, just like I began with the little red bicycle story. Is it the norm? Not in my experience but what am I conditioned for - what is my measure of the Spirit - can this be developed to better listen to Him? I'd like to know I'm not shutting this down. Personally, I carry with me some things I think He's done for me that have allowed me to still be here learning from Him and continuing to grow in and be conformed to Christ - IOW still be here drawing breath.

How far is He taking us in this indwelling relationship we have with Him? I'll continue to ponder and study and ask.

The day He doesn't tell me to duck may be the day He allows me to come home.

Again, this for me is not a discussion about the Spirit / the Word and it's not a discussion about the history of the Faith one accepts. If the discussion goes too far into the Spirit vs. the Word - the title of this thread - and pits the 2 against each other, I'll take more of a hard-line approach asserting the Word, and the Spirit being compared to the Word. You may note, now that I say this, that @Saint Steven seems to ignore me. Unless I miss my guess, this may be related to a discussion on this topic a few years ago where I did see the need to get more hard-line. At the time I recall his seeming to be very +Spirit to the extent of being way too much -Word IMO. This thread seems to be toned down compared to what I recall of that one.

I do appreciate the thoughts you've expressed. Thank you.

 

[sawdust]

As you correctly say, Scripture is not there to answer everyone's personal needs

But I'm not saying that. I'm saying the scriptures contain everything we need to know to have the common sense and the wisdom to make those personal choices correctly if we have learnt the word accurately. You can ask for wisdom till your blue in the face but if you have not hidden the word in your heart there will be no wisdom coming forth. How wise were you as a brand new Christian compared to today? Do you have any more or less of the Spirit? No, the difference is the word you have heard and applied. It is the word that supplies the common sense and wisdom. The Spirit works within the context of the word heard and received.

I think, and know, that if we ask him he will tell us

How will He tell you? And how will you know it is Him "speaking"? This is the essence of the whole problem. It's why we get threads like this. There are always those who say how important the word is "but" ... and then effectively proceed to tell us why it isn't enough.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

The Lord doesn't walk with us like He did with Adam, or visit us like He did Abraham or speak with us like He did Moses and the Prophets. All we have of the Lord's words are in writing for us now.

The simple reality is not one of us would know that we are to be filled and led by the Spirit if it were not for the written word. And if I'm brutally honest, I highly doubt the majority of Christians have any idea of how that is to be done, hence these threads.

 

[GDL]

There are always those who say how important the word is "but" ... and then effectively proceed to tell us why it isn't enough

The simple reality is not one of us would know that we are to be filled and led by the Spirit if it were not for the written word. And if I'm brutally honest, I highly doubt the majority of Christians have any idea of how that is to be done, hence these threads.

But for a few nuances I've been discussing, I'd have just used an emoji to completely agree with these statements.

 

[Strong in Him]

There are always those who say how important the word is "but" ... and then effectively proceed to tell us why it isn't enough.

I never said the word isn't enough.

The Lord doesn't walk with us like He did with Adam, or visit us like He did Abraham

No, he lives, or can live, IN us.

All we have of the Lord's words are in writing for us now.

Regarding faith, salvation etc, yes.
But God still speaks today and can speak through others; through books, sermons or even to us directly. This is guidance.

The simple reality is not one of us would know that we are to be filled and led by the Spirit if it were not for the written word.

If it wasn't for the Bible, none of us would know about God, Jesus, salvation, the Holy Spirit, becoming God's children or anything else.
I know that. Nowhere have I said that the Bible is not important; of course it is.

What I am saying is that there are things about our everyday lives that we are not told about in Scripture.
Maybe you don't believe that God wants you to do a particular job, live in a certain country, or part of a country; maybe you feel that he doesn't mind whether you marry or not, how many kids you have etc. Maybe you feel that God given common sense and wisdom is enough in all these matters. If you do, fine. But there are plenty of Christians who want to know God's will and God's leading in their everyday lives, and who pray before every decision, big or small. On THOSE occasions, the matter cannot be found in the Bible. You, yourself, have agreed with me that the Bible is not there to ell us the details of our day to day lives.
Yes, we can ask God for wisdom and the Spirit for guidance - and we do both those things because the Bible tells us to. But if someone says, "God led me to live in California and gave me a job in nursing", that statement cannot be backed up, or disproved, from Scripture. If you said to me, "God has led me to post on these forums", I cannot look in the Bible to prove, or disprove, that statement.