How do you get from, "I'm a Christian", to a gospel presentation? (think tank)

[Saint Steven]

Okay, picking up from the "What should we call ourselves...?" topic. Now what?

We want to share the gospel with those in our sphere of influence. (for whom we are most responsible, I suppose)

How do we proceed from, "I'm a Christian."?

I suppose, even the statement, "I'm a Christian." will beg some questions. (but probably not unless they ask?)
That may be enough for the time being. Unless they want to talk more about it. (thinking out loud here)

Assuming this is friendship evangelism, you don't have to "go for the kill" in one meeting. Give it time.

I suppose the key is to read the situations to know when they are ready for more.
As a friend you have the RIGHT to talk about what is important to you.

You can tell them you went to church if they ask what you did over the weekend.
Religion is part of your life. They know that. BUT you need to show interest in what they are doing as well.

Anyway, enough about me. - LOL
Where do go from there? Or was I off on the wrong foot already?
How do YOU get from, "I'm a Christian." to a gospel presentation?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait... this is supposed to be controversial somehow... Hmm... ???
Oh, got it. I'm a Universalist. Why should I care about evangelism? I believe everyone is already saved, right?
So why bother? Good questions...

How do I present the gospel WITHOUT the threat of hell?
Can you do it? (double dare you)

 

[Jonaitis]

I'm interested in how you can present the gospel as a Universalist, to be honest.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm interested in how you can present the gospel as a Universalist, to be honest.

That's a good question. Thanks.

Basically, you remove the threat of a forever burning hell. Everything else remains the same.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait... that won't work. No one in their right mind would want to be a Christian without that. Rats... - LOL

There are benefits in this life to a relationship with God.
AND... we will be required to answer for our lives in the judgment.
The less to answer for, the easier that will go.

The person you are witnessing to can be put ease concerning any loved ones that have gone ahead.
They will be reunited.

Almost makes you want to be a Universalist, right? - LOL

 

[Hmm]

I'm interested in how you can present the gospel as a Universalist, to be honest.

I guess it's making the point that you don't need a concept of eternal hell in order to have a loving and trusting relationship with God because we don't love God because we're afraid not to but because we want to.

 

[Jonaitis]

That's a good question. Thanks.

Basically, you remove the threat of a forever burning hell. Everything else remains the same.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait... that won't work. No one in their right mind would want to be a Christian without that. Rats... - LOL

There are benefits in this life to a relationship with God.
AND... we will be required to answer for our lives in the judgment.
The less to answer for, the easier that will go.

The person you are witnessing to can be put ease concerning any loved ones that have gone ahead.
They will be reunited.

A;most makes you want to be a Universalist, right? - LOL

What, then, encourages them to repent from their sins and to follow Jesus if the result is the same regardless?

 

[Jonaitis]

I guess it's making the point that you don't need a concept of eternal hell in order to have a loving and trusting relationship with God because we don't love God because we're afraid not to but because we want to.

It seems that they have already have a relationship with God, because they will be with him anyways. What motivates them to repent of their sins and decide to follow our faith?

 

[Hmm]

It seems that they have already have a relationship with God, because they will be with him anyways. What motivates them to repent of their sins and decide to follow our faith?

But that's not much of a relationship is it, not really caring or thinking about God because you know you'll be saved one day? It's no better than a relationship that's based on the fear of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT).

It's better to find God in this life so that we can enjoy Him and help Him in His project of building His new kingdom that began with Jesus' resurrection. We are all called to be kingdom builders (God is the only one who actually builds but we can help Him.)

More selfishly perhaps, while universalism believes that we will all eventually be saved, the refining process that may be needed to remove the obstacles to God we take with us into the next age will probably be very painful, just as physical medical treatment or counseling is usually painful. So why not avoid that if we can?

 

[Jonaitis]

But that's not much of a relationship is it, not really caring or thinking about God because you know you'll be saved one day? It's no better than a relationship that's based on the fear of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT).

It's better to find God in this life so that we can enjoy Him and help Him in His project of building His new kingdom that began with Jesus' resurrection. We are all called to be kingdom builders (God is the only one who actually builds but we can help Him.)

More selfishly perhaps, while universalism believes that we will all eventually be saved, the refining process that may be needed to remove the obstacles to God we take with us into the next age will probably be very painful, just as physical medical treatment or counseling is usually painful. So why not avoid that if we can?

See, I feel that this is not an accurate picture of ECT as taught in the evangelical gospel. It is not a fear-tactic to get people to believe, although some people will do that. The doctrine of ECT is originally intended to inspire a profound feeling of thankfulness and appreciation for what Christ did on behalf of us. Because our sins are weighed so high before Him, God became poor in order to bear its penalty. When you remove the concept of Hell from the gospel, there is very little for the person to see why God's love for them is so deep and profound. In short, hell makes the cross glorious; remove it and there will be nothing to touch the wretches heart to fly into the arms of Jesus. Hell is meant to move men to love Christ as their Savior.

 

[Hmm]

See, I feel that this is not an accurate picture of ECT as taught in the evangelical gospel. It is not a fear-tactic to get people to believe, although some people will do that. The doctrine of ECT is originally intended to inspire a profound feeling of thankfulness and appreciation for what Christ did on behalf of us. Because our sins are weighed so high before Him, God became poor in order to bear its penalty. When you remove the concept of Hell from the gospel, there is very little for the person to see why God's love for them is so deep and profound. In short, hell makes the cross glorious.

I know what you mean but it doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying that if I was living in North Korea, I should feel thankful and grateful that the Dear Leader doesn't have me executed or tortured on a whim and that this should inspire me to love him.

The difference in viewpoint is probably because I don't believe in Orginal Sin but prefer the Orthodox idea of Ancestral Sin. The difference is that with Original Sin we are all guilty of Adam's sin from our conception, while Ancestral Sin means that Adam introduced the disease of sin into humanity but we are not guilty of his specific sin. So with Original Sin we need punishment to make amends, but with Ancestral Sin we need healing. Original Sin is a concept invented by Augustine AFAIK which just makes no sense to me. Why was I guilty at birth of a sin committed by someone else many years ago?

 

[Jonaitis]

I know what you mean but it doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying that if I was living in North Korea, I should feel thankful and grateful that the Dear Leader doesn't have me executed or tortured on a whim and that this should inspire me to love him.

The difference in viewpoint is probably because I don't believe in Orginal Sin but prefer the Orthodox idea of Ancestral Sin. The difference is that with Original Sin we are all guilty of Adam's sin from our conception, while Ancestral Sin means that Adam introduced the disease of sin into humanity but we are not guilty of his specific sin. So with Original Sin we need punishment to make amends, but with Ancestral Sin we need healing. Original Sin is a concept invented by Augustine AFAIK which just makes no sense to me. Why was I guilty at birth of a sin committed by someone else many years ago?

I think that's a poor analogy, because you're equating a dictator who punishes innocent people with a judge who punishes criminals.

Even if you don't believe in original sin, you must at least believe in actual sin. It doesn't change the fact that the Scriptures state that we are guilty before God.

 

[Hmm]

I think that's a poor analogy, because you're equating a dictator who punishes innocent people with a judge who punishes criminals.

Even if you don't believe in original sin, you must at least believe in actual sin. It doesn't change the fact that the Scriptures state that we are guilty before God.

I do believe actual sin but sin as a sickness to be healed (Ancestral SIn) rather than as one specific crime that we're all guilty of (how does that work?) and which therefore needs to be punished (Original Sin).

Original Sin is a legalistic model and so my analogy makes sense, at least to me, because I don't see God as a judge who punishes criminals for a crime they didn't actually commit. I see God as the Great Physician.

 

[eleos1954]

Okay, picking up from the "What should we call ourselves...?" topic. Now what?

We want to share the gospel with those in our sphere of influence. (for whom we are most responsible, I suppose)

How do we proceed from, "I'm a Christian."?

I suppose, even the statement, "I'm a Christian." will beg some questions. (but probably not unless they ask?)
That may be enough for the time being. Unless they want to talk more about it. (thinking out loud here)

Assuming this is friendship evangelism, you don't have to "go for the kill" in one meeting. Give it time.

I suppose the key is to read the situations to know when they are ready for more.
As a friend you have the RIGHT to talk about what is important to you.

You can tell them you went to church if they ask what you did over the weekend.
Religion is part of your life. They know that. BUT you need to show interest in what they are doing as well.

Anyway, enough about me. - LOL
Where do go from there? Or was I off on the wrong foot already?
How do YOU get from, "I'm a Christian." to a gospel presentation?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait... this is supposed to be controversial somehow... Hmm... ???
Oh, got it. I'm a Universalist. Why should I care about evangelism? I believe everyone is already saved, right?
So why bother? Good questions...

How do I present the gospel WITHOUT the threat of hell?
Can you do it? (double dare you)

What is the "threat of hell"? Hell is the grave not some "burning place" for eternity .... that makes God out to be some sadistic monster of some kind.

All wait peacefully in the grave .... a dormant sleep ... until the return of our Lord and then the first resurrection happens.

The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times.

After death we are asleep, we are unconscious; we are not aware of the passing of time or of what is going on around us. That is what death is like as well.

The Bible says, “for the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing… their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, NKJV, see also Psalm 146:4; 115:17).

It makes sense that after Lazarus was raised from the dead, he doesn’t share what he saw or experienced. He didn’t have anything to tell, except that once he was dead, and now he is alive! He didn’t experience hell or heaven. He was simply “sleeping” in his tomb.

Peter on the Day of Pentecost said the same of King David. “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day…For David did not ascend into the heavens…"(Acts 2:29, 34).

Torture is a terrible teaching (much less for eternity) .... we instinctively know torture is wrong .... MANY reject the Lord because of this teaching .... I often wonder how the Lord will consider those who propagate this false teaching.

 

[Saint Steven]

What, then, encourages them to repent from their sins and to follow Jesus if the result is the same regardless?

Another good question.

Like a disease, I suppose. Do you take care of it at the earliest sign,
or wait for it to ravage your whole being to seek help?

Sin and a broken relationship with God DESTROYS our whole life!
And like the aforementioned disease, the sooner we deal with it, the better.

Plus, the afterlife transition will be much easier if we get a head-start.

I suppose I could threaten them with this...
Do you want every evil thought and deed exposed to all creation when you are required to answer at the judgment?
Or would you like to take care of that right now?

 

[Saint Steven]

What is the "threat of hell"? Hell is the grave not some "burning place" for eternity .... that makes God out to be some sadistic monster of some kind.

All wait peacefully in the grave .... a dormant sleep ... until the return of our Lord and then the first resurrection happens.

The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times.

After death we are asleep, we are unconscious; we are not aware of the passing of time or of what is going on around us. That is what death is like as well.

The Bible says, “for the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing… their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, NKJV, see also Psalm 146:4; 115:17).

It makes sense that after Lazarus was raised from the dead, he doesn’t share what he saw or experienced. He didn’t have anything to tell, except that once he was dead, and now he is alive! He didn’t experience hell or heaven. He was simply “sleeping” in his tomb.

Peter on the Day of Pentecost said the same of King David. “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day…For David did not ascend into the heavens…"(Acts 2:29, 34).

Torture is a terrible teaching (much less for eternity) .... we instinctively know torture is wrong .... MANY reject the Lord because of this teaching .... I often wonder how the Lord will consider those who propagate this false teaching.

So, how do you present the gospel?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Okay, picking up from the "What should we call ourselves...?" topic. Now what?

We want to share the gospel with those in our sphere of influence. (for whom we are most responsible, I suppose)

How do we proceed from, "I'm a Christian."?

I suppose, even the statement, "I'm a Christian." will beg some questions. (but probably not unless they ask?)
That may be enough for the time being. Unless they want to talk more about it. (thinking out loud here)

Assuming this is friendship evangelism, you don't have to "go for the kill" in one meeting. Give it time.

I suppose the key is to read the situations to know when they are ready for more.
As a friend you have the RIGHT to talk about what is important to you.

You can tell them you went to church if they ask what you did over the weekend.
Religion is part of your life. They know that. BUT you need to show interest in what they are doing as well.

Anyway, enough about me. - LOL
Where do go from there? Or was I off on the wrong foot already?
How do YOU get from, "I'm a Christian." to a gospel presentation?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait... this is supposed to be controversial somehow... Hmm... ???
Oh, got it. I'm a Universalist. Why should I care about evangelism? I believe everyone is already saved, right?
So why bother? Good questions...

How do I present the gospel WITHOUT the threat of hell?
Can you do it? (double dare you)

I used to ask what kind of spiritual stuff are you into?

Never ask it the same way twice. People are into spiritual stuff, the rest relies on leadings from the Holy Spirit.

 

[eleos1954]

So, how do you present the gospel?

It depends on where a conversation goes ... what topic is brought forth ... something will always come up about God in one way or another directly or indirectly .... I think it best to listen to others and get a better understanding of what their current "perspective" is about God. Many have a distorted image of God ... due to various reasons ... I let the Lord lead in these matters.

 

[GTW27]

So, how do you present the gospel?

The true Gospel is not presented(preached) by us. It is presented by Him(The Holy Spirit) through us. And since He is The Master Builder, it is done when and how He chooses to build. Like Paul said, I become all things, to all people, that they might be saved. To the hungry, a little portion of food is given instead of a full plate. This keeps them hungry for more.

 

[Saint Steven]

I used to ask what kind of spiritual stuff are you into?

That's very interesting.
What sort of response do you get?

 

[Saint Steven]

The true Gospel is not presented(preached) by us. It is presented by Him(The Holy Spirit) through us. And since He is The Master Builder, it is done when and how He chooses to build. Like Paul said, I become all things, to all people, that they might be saved. To the hungry, a little portion of food is given instead of a full plate. This keeps them hungry for more.

That's fascinating.
Do you have a testimony of how that has worked for you?

 

[GTW27]

That's fascinating.
Do you have a testimony of how that has worked for you?

When Jesus was here He Said, My Father is always working. And so it is for those that are truly born from above. When we learn to truly rest in Him(cease from our own labors) it is then that He works in and through us. When I go out into the world I have no preperation or plan to speak. but in one moment I can be walking in the flesh, and the next walking in The Spirit. This is The Lord's doing as He sees fit. It is my job to believe(have faith) and to be clean(repented up). It is The Lord's will that we believe so He can keep His promises to us and through us. And He does, for He is faithful. My testimony is not of myself for I am nothing, It would be of Him, in what He has done, and what He continues to do today. It would fill many books. The Lord has promised to provide for everything we need. It is not just in material things, it is also in spiritual things. Since I have laid my life down I trust Him enough to use me as a willing vessel. It is like hopping in the back seat and letting Him drive. The Lord loves being right in the mist of His creation. I can feel the unfathnable love He has for others. The lost and the saved alike. I am amazed at what comes through these unclean lips. A testimony is not about how it has worked for me, it is about how it has worked for Him. Do I think that the words the other day at the hospital in the mist of many people were effective? Yes I do. Do I think the man at the cancer center, that put out his hand to shake after talking just a bit, still has lung cancer. No I do not. This list can go on and on but I try not to look back, but to press forward. There will be testimonies for those lives The Lord has touched along this journey I am sure. Let them all give praise honor and Glory to The Lord for His mercy, as I do. So that is my calling Saint Steven, to gather. And since I have not mention Jesus in this response I say Jesus is Lord and Jesus has come in the flesh!