Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

So why am I human and yet the sperm and ovum that combined were not?

Please buy yourself a biology book It explains the difference between a cell, an organ and an organism, and why only organisms are a life.

 

[Belk]

You consent to taking a risk when driving, understanding there's a chance you can have an accident. You consent when you have unprotected sex, knowing there's a chance you (/the woman) can get pregnant. This is basic stuff.

You are still trying to conflate Knowledge of possible consequences with consent. When I am driving a car I know it is possible I could get in an accident. I am not consenting to the accident. I am not saying "If I get in an accident it is OK and I am open to it." I am saying "I hope I don't get in an accident even though it is a possibility.

This is where the analogy cannot be compared. If a drunk driver runs a red light and hits your car, injuring you - then you have every right to claim insurance and (in some cases) even sue. A person who chooses to have unprotected sex is aware of the risks and the innocent party is the one being aborted. Actions have consequences, whether good or bad. As consenting adults we're to use our reasoning skills to determine the risks and possible outcome/s before making a choice. In the scenario we are using, to not do so is just plain carelessness and a denial of personal accountability.

You keep trying to bring this back to abortion. I am only discussing consent and contesting the idea that acknowledging possible outcomes is the same as permission.

 

[Kylie]

Please buy yourself a biology book It explains the difference between a cell, an organ and an organism, and why only organisms are a life.

I know what a biology book would say.

I'm interested in YOUR answer.

 

[YahuahSaves]

You are still trying to conflate Knowledge of possible consequences with consent.

All "consent" comes down to choices. we make a choice whenever we choose to participate in an activity. If it's a dangerous or risky activity, we weigh up the potential risks of harm vs. reward. You are confusing the legal term of "consent" Whereas consent more generally, is permission or agreement.

You keep trying to bring this back to abortion. I am only discussing consent and contesting the idea that acknowledging possible outcomes is the same as permission.

Because of the thread. You may not give explicit permission to have an accident when you choose to drive a car, but you do so indirectly when you make a decision based upon the risk vs. reward. The same permission is given to getting pregnant when a person chooses to have unprotected sex.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I know what a biology book would say.

I'm interested in YOUR answer.

Why would I say anything different? I agree with biology. If you know what biology says then you have my answer.

 

[coffee4u]

Acknowledging risk is not the same as granting permission. Your claim was that every time someone has sex they "grant permission" to possibly conceive. As pointed out, knowing possible consequences and granting permission are not synonymous and you can't make claims of consent simply based on behavior.


If you don't 'consent' to getting into a car crash don't drive. No, the logic does not work.

Morality is internal, not something you enforce on others. That is the function of the law.

"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality". Ayn Rand

 

[ralliann]

When he received the breath of life he was made alive like all of our children. Are you saying our children do not require the breath of life?

A child receives air through umbilical cord. Babys can and have died in the womb by strangulatution with their umbilical cord.

 

[Hans Blaster]

A child receives air through umbilical cord. Babys can and have died in the womb by strangulatution with their umbilical cord.

They do not receive air. Air is a gaseous mixture. There aren't gas bubbles in the umbilcal cord (generally bubbles are a *bad* thing in the bloodstream).

 

[YahuahSaves]

They do not receive air. Air is a gaseous mixture. There aren't gas bubbles in the umbilcal cord (generally bubbles are a *bad* thing in the bloodstream).

"How do babies breathe in the womb?
Although babies do practice breathing movements in the womb to train their muscles, they don’t actually breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide like you do. Instead, oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange happen via the umbilical cord and placenta."

From: How Babies Breathe in the Womb

 

[Hans Blaster]

they don’t actually breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide like you do.

no air. just like i said.

 

[YahuahSaves]

no air. just like i said.

From: How babies breathe in the womb

"Instead, the umbilical cord provides the baby with oxygen until the first breath"

 

[Belk]

All "consent" comes down to choices. we make a choice whenever we choose to participate in an activity. If it's a dangerous or risky activity, we weigh up the potential risks of harm vs. reward. You are confusing the legal term of "consent" Whereas consent more generally, is permission or agreement.

That is exactly the definition I am using. Simply engaging in an activity is not giving consent for all possible outcomes. Walking across a street is not giving consent to be hit by a bus. That is not how consent works.

Because of the thread. You may not give explicit permission to have an accident when you choose to drive a car, but you do so indirectly when you make a decision based upon the risk vs. reward. The same permission is given to getting pregnant when a person chooses to have unprotected sex.

No. You may acknowledge that an accident is a possibility but you are not giving permission for it to happen. You are actively hoping it does not. That is the opposite of consent.

 

[Belk]

"You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality". Ayn Rand

Reality is that consequence is not the same as consent.

 

[YahuahSaves]

No. You may acknowledge that an accident is a possibility but you are not giving permission for it to happen. You are actively hoping it does not.

Reality is that consequence is not the same as consent.

The reality is that we live in a world where we have to continuously make choices. you cannot claim abortion is OK because the pregnant woman didn't give verbal consent to the baby growing in her womb - that would be illogical. She gave consent by not using contraception (or consent that her partner didn't use protection) when engaging in an act that has a known consequence of pregnancy. Your arguments don't stack up so....NEXT.

 

[rturner76]

A child receives air through umbilical cord. Babys can and have died in the womb by strangulatution with their umbilical cord.

Yes as a symbiote. They do not live independently of their mother until they breathe.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yes as a symbiote. They do not live independently of their mother until they breathe.

The point is, they are alive. and they don't live "independently" from their mother after they're born either.

 

[NxNW]

You have no idea how DNA works either, obviously. Your argument is circular because you can't disprove the facts. Just admit it's your preference to deny the unborn are human beings. (Emotional bias).

I've already proved it, because you can't quantify how many there are at conception.

 

[NxNW]

There was an amoeba life before splitting, just like there is a human life before splitting.

There is only one after splitting, eh?

 

[NxNW]

Perhaps click the link in this paragraph "detailed scientific analysis" it will give you some insight. There is no debate.

"From the moment of sperm-egg fusion," concludes embryologist Maureen L. Condic, a professor at the University of Utah School of Medicine, in a detailed scientific analysis, "a human zygote acts as a complete whole,

This contradicts your earlier claim that we're formed in the womb. The sperm-egg fusion described above occurs in the fallopian tube. You can't even seem to make a consistent claim as to where conception occurs.

 

[NxNW]

People of childbearing age grant permission to conceive every time they have sex.

Grant it to whom? We've already established that the unborn doesn't yet exist. Permission is something you grant to a person who actually exists.