So...Biden Also Took Private Documents

[Ana the Ist]

At this point, we don't know who didn't turn over presidential documents (including some classified ones).

ETA: CNN breaking news says Biden personal family documents were found with them, so it does point more clearly at Joe himself.

Among the classified documents from Joe Biden’s time as vice president discovered in a private office last fall are US intelligence memos and briefing materials that covered topics including Ukraine, Iran and the United Kingdom, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The boxes with these classified records also contained personal Biden family documents, including materials about Beau Biden’s funeral arrangements, the source told CNN.

I don't really trust lawyers on Biden’s payroll anymore than I trust lawyers on Trump's payroll.

In Trump's case, this seemed obvious to everyone....now suddenly lawyers turning over documents isn't a problem

"Title 18 of the United States Code are listed on the warrant. Section 793 covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary. Section 1519 covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings"​

Here to me is the big difference between Trump's situation and Biden's. Section 1519 of the Espionage act covers those "destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations." The NASA turned over the fight to get docs back from Trump to the DOJ. That turned into an investigation replete with a subpoena to which Trump at al fought tooth and nail to obstruct that investigation. Even the actions of the lawyers are far different. Biden's lawyers notified the appropriate agency and turned docs back over. Trump's lawyers participated in the same obstruction and now those attorneys need attorneys.

Didn't Trump's lawyers cooperate and turn over boxes of documents?

Obviously you didn't trust them...they're lawyers. They are paid to protect Trump's interests.

Now Biden’s lawyers turn over documents....less than 12....and that's it! Nothing to see here!

 

[ralliann]

It's easy to understand the difference between a mistake and a deliberate act.

Case #1
NARA asks Trump for the Hurricane Dorian Sharpie doc and the Kim Jong Un love letters and anything else that belongs to We The People.
NARA asks Trump again, pretty please.
Some documents are turned over.
NARA tells DOJ some of the documents given back were sensitive, others were torn up or otherwise not preserved in accordance with the law.
NARA/DOJ subpoenas Trump for additional documents.
DOJ tells the Trump camp 'While you're responding to our request, you really should put all of those documents in a secure place.'
Trump's team unstealthily moves some documents from that place to Trump's personal residence.
Some subpoenaed documents are turned over. Trump lawyers sign something saying, "That's it, that's all the stuff we could find."
DOJ serves a search warrant, and uncovers a number of withheld documents, even the ones the Trump camp hid in the meantime.

Case #2
Biden's team finds stuff that (stipulated) shouldn't be there and immediately alerts NARA and turns over the docs.

Legal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents. But these situations are typically handled administratively, not criminally, since the criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents includes proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.

Which of the two cases seems to meet this criterion?

No it isnt. Hillary destroyed documents that were supposed to be turned over. It is as chevy said it depends on who your friends are.

 

[Valletta]

"Title 18 of the United States Code are listed on the warrant. Section 793 covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary. Section 1519 covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings"​

Here to me is the big difference between Trump's situation and Biden's. Section 1519 of the Espionage act covers those "destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations." The NASA turned over the fight to get docs back from Trump to the DOJ. That turned into an investigation replete with a subpoena to which Trump at al fought tooth and nail to obstruct that investigation. Even the actions of the lawyers are far different. Biden's lawyers notified the appropriate agency and turned docs back over. Trump's lawyers participated in the same obstruction and now those attorneys need attorneys.

Whoa, first Joe was vice president, and did not have the authority the president has to declassify. In this case Joe's attorneys have admitted the documents Joe kept were classified, some at the Top Secret level. In Trump's case Trump says he declassified the documents. In Joe's situation we have no idea how many national security documents he originally had, so we don't know what is missing and might bes in the hands of foreign powers. Remember Hillary had documents so sensitive that those working for or with the United States could have been killed had the documents fallen into the wrong hands. We know that Joe lied when he said he had no knowledge of Hunter's business dealings, Hunter is recorded as saying money went to Joe. The Bidens have received millions from the Chinese, were the documents part of the deal? Why has the Penn building not been shut down and secured so that a search for more documents can take place? Why won't Joe answer questions about the documents? Your charges that Trump "fought tooth and nail to obstruct and investigation" are ridiculous, lawyers negotiated back and forth for months and Trump fully cooperated in giving the federal government access to the documents they were interested in. Don't you think that if Joe is so reckless with national security he should be disqualified from running for president?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Didn't Trump's lawyers cooperate and turn over boxes of documents?

No, they were responding to a subpoena. Cooperating would have been doing so when NARA asked the first time.

Even then, not everything was turned over.

Now Biden’s lawyers turn over documents....less than 12....and that's it! Nothing to see here!

Since nobody seemed to know about them, the lawyers could have set them on fire, or just kept them. Except that doing so intentionally would be illegal. Producing the documents out of the blue, unasked, is evidence of good faith.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, they were responding to a subpoena. Cooperating would have been doing so when NARA asked the first time.

They did....here's a timeline..

Redirect Notice

The Justice Department inquiry is about documents that Trump removed from the White House as his term was ending in January 2021. Earlier this year, officials from the National Archives and Records Administration, known as NARA, recovered 15 boxes of presidential documents from Mar-a-Lago.

Trump's lawyers previously worked with NARA to voluntarily turn over some documents, but the Mar-a-Lago search clearly indicates a new phase of the probe. Trump has denied all wrongdoing and claims the investigation is a politically motivated sham, intended to derail his potential bid to return to the White House.

See how you are wrong? Trump's lawyers were contacted... they turned over classified documents. Obviously Biden’s lawyers weren't going through his old office cuz they didn't have anything better to do. They're lawyers....not a cleaning crew. They turned over a couple of sheets of paper.

Now, if one of those things triggers an FBI raid, the other should as well.

It's OK....you forget stuff....and sometimes people fill in those blanks with false information. No need to thank me.

 

[Always in His Presence]

FLASHBACK: Biden Shocked Anyone Could Be 'Irresponsible' Enough to Unknowingly Possess Classified Docs

When federal authorities last August discovered classified documents at former president Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence, President Joe Biden said he couldn't understand "how anyone could be that irresponsible."

freebeacon.com

When federal authorities last August discovered classified documents at former president Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence, President Joe Biden said he couldn't understand "how anyone could be that irresponsible."​

​

"I thought, what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods," the president said in an interview with CBS's 60 Minutes. "Totally irresponsible."​

​

It turns out Biden was also describing himself: The White House on Monday announced that Biden's attorneys in November discovered classified documents at the president's office at the University of Pennsylvania.​

Will joe take responsibility?

 

[rambot]

They did....here's a timeline..

Redirect Notice

The Justice Department inquiry is about documents that Trump removed from the White House as his term was ending in January 2021. Earlier this year, officials from the National Archives and Records Administration, known as NARA, recovered 15 boxes of presidential documents from Mar-a-Lago.

Trump's lawyers previously worked with NARA to voluntarily turn over some documents, but the Mar-a-Lago search clearly indicates a new phase of the probe. Trump has denied all wrongdoing and claims the investigation is a politically motivated sham, intended to derail his potential bid to return to the White House.

See how you are wrong? Trump's lawyers were contacted... they turned over classified documents. Obviously Biden’s lawyers weren't going through his old office cuz they didn't have anything better to do. They're lawyers....not a cleaning crew. They turned over a couple of sheets of paper.

Now, if one of those things triggers an FBI raid, the other should as well.

It's OK....you forget stuff....and sometimes people fill in those blanks with false information. No need to thank me.

From the start of your link:

May 2021

An official from NARA contacts Trump's team after realizing that several important documents weren't handed over before Trump left the White House. In hopes of locating the missing items, NARA lawyer Gary Stern reaches out to someone who served in the White House counsel's office under Trump, who was the point of contact for recordkeeping matters. The missing documents include some of Trump's correspondence with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as well as the map of Hurricane Dorian that Trump infamously altered with a sharpie pen.

Fall 2021

NARA grows frustrated with the slow pace of document turnover after several months of conversations with the Trump team. Stern reaches out to another Trump attorney to intervene. The archivist asks about several boxes of records that were apparently taken to Mar-a-Lago during Trump's relocation to Florida. NARA still doesn't receive the White House documents they are searching for.

Then ask in May. They get access to it in January?

And then they still ask NARA to not turn documents over to the FBI....? What kind a gall is that? It's not like htose documents belong to them.

Biden's team response?

After the discovery, Biden's lawyers immediately contacted the National Archives and Records Administration, which started looking into the matter, the source said. Biden's team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said.

For the record though, I'm all for a THOROUGH investigation of both instances.

 

[essentialsaltes]

See how you are wrong?

Trump's lawyers previously worked with NARA to voluntarily turn over some documents

That's not cooperating.

Trump's lawyers were contacted... they turned over classified documents.

Now, if one of those things triggers an FBI raid, the other should as well.

Where's the part where Biden's lawyers were contacted?. See how these things are not the same?

 

[Ana the Ist]

As we have seen the NASA is not immune to correcting bad information come the handling of documents. Not sure who the "he" is you speak of come being charged. Let me say this, and I have always said this about Trump. When it comes down to doing either the right thing, the wrong thing, or nothing, if Trump sees even doing the wrong thing a personal benefit, he will do the wrong thing without hesitation. That's the summation of him docs in Mar A Largo situation.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you Trump was a good president. I'm not going to say he hasn't committed any crimes or wasn't corrupt. If I had to list everything that he did that I agreed with...I could do it on 1 hand and have fingers left over.

But you're missing the big picture. It's not that he was egregiously bad...they all are. They didn't want him there because he didn't play ball...and if you sit in that chair for a month you'll start seeing it everywhere. They don't want him to even campaign....because he might talk about the rampant corruption. They need to keep the threat of an investigation hanging over him....indefinitely. It's not like you want him actually testifying.

Maybe at some point in the future he'll be easily bought off or...just croak. I'd be genuinely surprised if they ever charge him. He's the first outsider in my lifetime....but it became a serious problem very quickly. He was threatened with charges on day 1. They have too much to hide.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Trump's lawyers previously worked with NARA to voluntarily turn over some documents.

Biden’s lawyers turned over some documents.

Do you know how we can be certain they turned over all of them?

And what do you mean "how do we know they were contacted?" Because I don't have full blown brain damage, a mental deficit, or otherwise impairment that would somehow make me unable to figure out the only reason why they would be going through his office looking for files in the first place.

What do you think happened? They were just sitting around one day thinking "hey....you know what we should do? Just rifle through old Joe's former offices and see what we can come up with....we're a couple of high priced lawyers working for the president....it's not like we're busy."

 

[BPPLEE]

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office, source says | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

He took some classified documents from his time as VP under Obama to his private office somewhere blah blah blah.

I remember pointing out that at these levels of the federal government, this stuff happens all the time. It's the exact same crime Trump is accused of in the Mar A Lago raid. How did they know where to look? Hmmm.

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."

Fun stuff. I recall people saying Trump should be jailed for life. What should happen to Biden?

Thoughts?

'The View' host declares Biden document scandal 'huge win for Trump,' 'kills' Mar-a-Lago case

Alyssa Farah Griffin said Tuesday during "The View" that the discovery of classified documents at President Biden's think tank was a "huge win" for Trump.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Ana the Ist]

From the start of your link:

Then ask in May. They get access to it in January?

And then they still ask NARA to not turn documents over to the FBI....? What kind a gall is that? It's not like htose documents belong to them.

Biden's team response?

How long between Trump leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

And now....

How long between Biden leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

I know if we just ignore dates completely....it might seem like Trump had classified documents in his possession longer.

If we just remove our brains and ignore dates.

For the record though, I'm all for a THOROUGH investigation of both instances.

How?

We got whistleblowers in the FBI saying that the agency is basically just propping up Democratic Party narratives.

Do you think old Joe will appoint a director who votes Republican and promises to overturn every stone?

Is there a foreign government we trust enough to come in and ferret out all corruption? A general we'd be comfortable with turning this whole thing over to without any oversight?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Biden’s lawyers turned over some documents.

Do you know how we can be certain they turned over all of them?

I know how we can be certain NARA and DOJ knew that Trump had not turned over all of his. And that's the basis of the search warrant. If the Trump-appointed attorney at DOJ has similar knowledge in this case, he'll get a warrant of his own. But that will only happen in your astonishing world of imagination.

And what do you mean "how do we know they were contacted?" Because I don't have full blown brain damage, a mental deficit, or otherwise impairment that would somehow make me unable to figure out the only reason why they would be going through his office looking for files in the first place.

Because I read the OP article instead of making "blah blah blah" noises, I know that "The documents were discovered when the President's personal attorneys were packing files housed in a locked closet to prepare to vacate office space at the Penn Biden Center in Washington, D.C."

The Biden Center had come to an end, and Penn wanted its space back.

 

[SimplyMe]

Well it's not really that they should be raiding the office....but probably the lawyers' offices, and all of Joe's other places of work and living.

If he's just forgetting material like this....you know....for reasons.....then the guy currently in charge of national security is a threat to national security.

I don't understand this claim. Why, because you want "payback?" What evidence do they have that there are more documents?

And, if you actually want to claim that a search warrant is needed for Biden's office and the lawyer's offices, etc; shouldn't they also, since Trump's lawyers also turned over extra documents after the search warrant on Mar-A-Lago that were found in a storage unit, "they should be raiding the office....but probably the lawyers' offices, and all of [Donald]'s other places of work and living."

 

[Ana the Ist]

I know how we can be certain NARA and DOJ knew that Trump had not turned over all of his. And that's the basis of the search warrant.

Right.

Odd that NARA missed the same details about the current administration.

If the Trump-appointed attorney at DOJ has similar knowledge in this case, he'll get a warrant of his own. But that will only happen in your astonishing world of imagination.

Oh there's no way of knowing what documents Biden had access to as VP or where they might have gone....I'm not the one with the imagination here.

Because I read the OP article instead of making "blah blah blah" noises, I know that "The documents were discovered when the President's personal attorneys were packing files housed in a locked closet to prepare to vacate office space at the Penn Biden Center in Washington, D.C."

Right. Typical lawyer work. Moving personal belongings like a team of movers on craigslist. He doesn't have dozens upon dozens of low level functionaries to send on some packing and moving job....so he sent his lawyers to do it at 1500$ an hour because if there's one thing lawyers are known for, it's getting the job done quickly lol.

I can't imagine that these docs were just littered around the floor so...whatever folders and cabinets were gone through were opened and looked at.

So again....just using the tiniest amount of common sense...do you think they were there to pack up and move or recover documents?

The Biden Center had come to an end, and Penn wanted its space back.

They have plenty of people who could have easily packed his things and delivered them....the sort of thing you wouldn't want to happen if you knew you had highly classified documents there.

 

[Valletta]

I don't understand this claim. Why, because you want "payback?" What evidence do they have that there are more documents?

And, if you actually want to claim that a search warrant is needed for Biden's office and the lawyer's offices, etc; shouldn't they also, since Trump's lawyers also turned over extra documents after the search warrant on Mar-A-Lago that were found in a storage unit, "they should be raiding the office....but probably the lawyers' offices, and all of [Donald]'s other places of work and living."

They found classified material that Joe illegally kept, Joe had not notified NARA or anyone else of the existence of the classified documents until his lawyers did just before the election. This contrasts to Trump whose lawyers were negotiating with NARA over the documents. Joe has refused to comment, he needs to be compelled to provide the locations of where he kept classified material and provide a list of classified documents. Meanwhile Joe needs to order the Penn building to be locked down while a search is conducted for more classified material. At this point foreign entities could very well be going through the building.

 

[SimplyMe]

How long between Trump leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

And now....

How long between Biden leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

I know if we just ignore dates completely....it might seem like Trump had classified documents in his possession longer.

If we just remove our brains and ignore dates.

I'm for a full investigation into why those records were in Biden's boxes. I think an argument can be made, as was attempted in the Trump case, to claim that the box was packed by a staffer when Biden left office and accidentally included the classified papers. There is no evidence, prior to the move, that Joe had gone in the box and looked at documents -- if he had, it is unlikely that the classified documents would be next to papers concerning Beau's funeral arrangements. Then do whatever is right based on the results of the investigation -- at a minimum, improving Classified records handling at the White House, which appears to have been horrible under both the Obama and Trump administrations and is likely to still be bad under Biden.

How?

We got whistleblowers in the FBI saying that the agency is basically just propping up Democratic Party narratives.

Do you think old Joe will appoint a director who votes Republican and promises to overturn every stone?

Is there a foreign government we trust enough to come in and ferret out all corruption? A general we'd be comfortable with turning this whole thing over to without any oversight?

And we had whistleblowers, just before Trump took office, that the FBI was just basically propping up Republican Party narratives (when all the leaks about the investigations into Hillary, ending with the announcement of the investigation by the FBI Director, which evidence shows affected -- if not ended -- Hillary's campaign. The evidence strongly suggests that the truth is in the middle, that there are agents on both sides trying to manipulate things for political reasons -- which should not be happening.

As for the FBI director, it has been a Republican for years, with the current director appointed by Pres. Trump. I'm sure you won't believe Comey was a Republican but he was, including having worked as the Assistant Attorney General under Pres. Bush and AG Ashcroft.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't understand this claim. Why, because you want "payback?"

I'm disappointed at the gullibility of people. I don't expect payback.

When the Trump raid happened, I recall being dismissed when I said that this sort of thing happens all the time.

What evidence do they have that there are more documents?

Are you asking me personally?

I don't know what they know specifically....but the idea that we have "all the documents" that every high level official, VP, or president walked out the door with is hilarious.

When your job requires you to do things you shouldn't be doing...or you'll be replaced with someone who will...you keep evidence of the wrongdoing of others. It ensures you won't have to answer for anything...they won't even ask.

The idea of someone sitting next to any of them who doesn't have some dirt on their hands would be terrifying. Presidents retire...not just because it's a difficult job...but they don't have to work. Imagine the danger of a modern day president going broke...a head full of state secrets worth hundreds of millions anywhere in the world.

That doesn't happen...so they get 10 million for a 30 minute speech at Goldman Sachs about leadership.

And, if you actually want to claim that a search warrant is needed for Biden's office and the lawyer's offices, etc; shouldn't they also, since Trump's lawyers also turned over extra documents after the search warrant on Mar-A-Lago that were found in a storage unit, "they should be raiding the office....but probably the lawyers' offices, and all of [Donald]'s other places of work and living."

Well that depends upon what the goal of this is....oversight?

Most of the committees, departments, offices and various little "independent" oversight functions of the government have effectively been either defunded into ineffectiveness....or deliberately given policies or rules which make them toothless.

I can give examples if you want.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I can't imagine that these docs were just littered around the floor so...

Because I read the OP article instead of making "blah blah blah" noises, I know that they were in a locked closet.

 

[rambot]

How long between Trump leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

And now....

How long between Biden leaving office and the recovery of classified documents?

So?

I know if we just ignore dates completely....it might seem like Trump had classified documents in his possession longer.

If we just remove our brains and ignore dates.

It's not "length of time I was referring to"...it's the immediacy of the response from government agencies.

How?

We got whistleblowers in the FBI saying that the agency is basically just propping up Democratic Party narratives.

We do? I've heard about something in regards to Hunter but not as a matter of systemic problem on all fronts.

Do you think old Joe will appoint a director who votes Republican and promises to overturn every stone?

Is there a foreign government we trust enough to come in and ferret out all corruption? A general we'd be comfortable with turning this whole thing over to without any oversight?

Get the UN in. They should be coming in to help with your elections anyways.