Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[rjs330]

“That’s the way it is” was the very same thing that was said during Jim Crow.

That's not what he's saying. You can show disparity in numbers on just about anything you want. Disparity alone means little.

It could have something to do with the culture of being the descendants of slaves. People that come here now come by choice and they have specific goals in mind for when they land here. I believe as Africans of the diaspora, there have been more obstacles to success.

No way. There is no way current culture has anything to do with being a slave descendant. What exactly in today's culture resembles slave culture?

 

[Pommer]

That's not what he's saying. You can show disparity in numbers on just about anything you want. Disparity alone means little.

If we don’t change anything, nothing will change?
Have a great night!

 

[rjs330]

If we don’t change anything, nothing will change?
Have a great night!

Well that's stating the obvious isn't it? The question is what needs to change and how do we do it.

What specifically are you referring to that needs to change? The justice system as a whole doesn't need to change. There are portions of it that do which will benefit everyone.

Some of the current changes have caused more problems than they solved.

This thread isn't about the justice system as a whole so let's not derail it.

But there is no evidence that all these judges are racists. But it appears that there needs to be change in black culture so there isn't so much crime and more done in the justice system to prevent recidivism.

 

[rturner76]

Sure. The point is they can be overcome

I have never said otherwise. Now I'm glad you admit there are obsticales

I don't understand what the "lingering stench" refers to.

Things like racist judges and cops.

 

[rturner76]

That's not what he's saying. You can show disparity in numbers on just about anything you want. Disparity alone means little.

No way. There is no way current culture has anything to do with being a slave descendant. What exactly in today's culture resembles slave culture?

The lack of fairness in the legal system is one thing. I can't believe you are still holding to the past has no effect on the present.

 

[rjs330]

The lack of fairness in the legal system is one thing. I can't believe you are still holding to the past has no effect on the present.

Tell me then what about today's black culture has to do with being a slave descendant. What about today's black culture is from the slave culture?

 

[rturner76]

Tell me then what about today's black culture has to do with being a slave descendant. What about today's black culture is from the slave culture?

The trickledown from it being a death penalty crime for learning how to read. It made literacy less of a priority. A less literate population is easier to control.

 

[RDKirk]

That's not what he's saying. You can show disparity in numbers on just about anything you want. Disparity alone means little.

No way. There is no way current culture has anything to do with being a slave descendant. What exactly in today's culture resembles slave culture?

There are several ways. I started a thread a while back and spoke at length about how ADOS culture today stretches back to the culture that was instilled in slaves.

 

[RDKirk]

If we don’t change anything, nothing will change?
Have a great night!

At this point, black people have to do the changing and drop dysfunctional behaviors.

 

[RDKirk]

Tell me then what about today's black culture has to do with being a slave descendant. What about today's black culture is from the slave culture?

The disregard of our own lives, for one, was instilled by slavery. The inability to regard ourselves as our own ideals for a second. The US gender relationship has been a (mostly benign) patriarchy, but it has been a white patriarchy in which black men have never had membership and from which black women never received benefit. That created a weak relationship between males and females that was kept weak by Jim Crow and finally broken by white feminism.

 

[rjs330]

The disregard of our own lives, for one, was instilled by slavery. The inability to regard ourselves as our own ideals for a second. The US gender relationship has been a (mostly benign) patriarchy, but it has been a white patriarchy in which black men have never had membership and from which black women never received benefit. That created a weak relationship between males and females that was kept weak by Jim Crow and finally broken by white feminism.

I think that's a lot of speculation.

Especially in the light that black families used to do much better and were pretty solid until Johnson's Great Society.

Plus I'm not sold on the disregard for our own lives comes from slavery. I'd have to see some evidence of that and not pure speculation.

The black males definitely were not part of the patriarchal power group. Jim Crowe saw to that and we did know that even in the north blacks were still in the lower classes. Jim Crowe wasn't the only discrimination.

 

[rjs330]

The trickledown from it being a death penalty crime for learning how to read. It made literacy less of a priority. A less literate population is easier to control.

It's not a death penalty any more and hasn't been for oh, more than a 100 years. Certainly parents aren't telling their kids that of you learn to read you will be killed for it. I'm sure all the schools would disagree that kids would all face death if they learned to read. I think they are really trying to get kids to read.

I certainly haven't seen any legislation or laws that forbid blacks from literacy.

It seems all of society encourages literacy.

 

[Pommer]

Especially in the light that black families used to do much better and were pretty solid until Johnson's Great Society.

Nixon’s War on Drugs had more to do with this.

 

[RDKirk]

I think that's a lot of speculation.

Especially in the light that black families used to do much better and were pretty solid until Johnson's Great Society.

Plus I'm not sold on the disregard for our own lives comes from slavery. I'd have to see some evidence of that and not pure speculation.

The black males definitely were not part of the patriarchal power group. Jim Crowe saw to that and we did know that even in the north blacks were still in the lower classes. Jim Crowe wasn't the only discrimination.

It wasn't Johnson's Great Society, it was feminism.

Specifically, radical white feminism, in which white women drew from the power they already possessed as benefits of the white patriarchy (even as they railed against that patriarchy). Their goal was to destroy the family...and the black family was already weak as a result of slavery and Jim Crow.

Ironically, most white women didn't swallow the "strong, independent woman who doesn't need a man" rhetoric (as noted by the fact that most white women voted for Donald Trump), but black women did as a result of always having been in the workforce and never having been on the "wife and mother" pedestal....and that was a product of slavery and Jim Crow. Black women did not get the benefits of patriarchy that white women got. Black women were easy marks for the "strong, independent woman who doesn't need a man" rhetoric.

White radical feminists, drawing from the power of the white patriarchy (that they despised) could offer perks to black women that mere black liberation could not offer. But the price was the black family.

Regarding the Great Society, most blame is placed on the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program and its "no man in the house" provision. However, that's greatly overblown. ADC was actually instituted in 1939, during the Great Depression, with the intention of keeping white mothers out of the workforce and out of competition with white men. At the time, white mothers received payments even if their unemployed husbands were in the house. I point out "white" here because black women were prohibited from receiving ADC...because they were already considered part of the workforce (they had no benefit from the patriarchy).

After the Civil Rights Act, black women began receiving ADC as white women did. However, at the same time, several states (it was a state-administered program) instituted the "no man in the house" rule. The Supreme Court outlawed that rule in 1969. So, "no man in the house" had only been in effect for five years and not in all states. It was a minor factor, limited in time and area, in the dissolution of the black family. Radical feminism has been the real cause of the situation we are in today, and the reason why the black family could not "get it together" after the Civil Rights Era began to relieve us of racist pressures.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If we don’t change anything, nothing will change?

Change is inevitable.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It wasn't Johnson's Great Society, it was feminism.

Specifically, radical white feminism, in which white women drew from the power they already possessed as benefits of the white patriarchy (even as they railed against that patriarchy). Their goal was to destroy the family...and the black family was already weak as a result of slavery and Jim Crow.

Ironically, most white women didn't swallow the "strong, independent woman who doesn't need a man" rhetoric (as noted by the fact that most white women voted for Donald Trump), but black women did as a result of always having been in the workforce and never having been on the "wife and mother" pedestal....and that was a product of slavery and Jim Crow. Black women did not get the benefits of patriarchy that white women got. Black women were easy marks for the "strong, independent woman who doesn't need a man" rhetoric.

White radical feminists, drawing from the power of the white patriarchy (that they despised) could offer perks to black women that mere black liberation could not offer. But the price was the black family.

Regarding the Great Society, most blame is placed on the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program and its "no man in the house" provision. However, that's greatly overblown. ADC was actually instituted in 1939, during the Great Depression, with the intention of keeping white mothers out of the workforce and out of competition with white men. At the time, white mothers received payments even if their unemployed husbands were in the house. I point out "white" here because black women were prohibited from receiving ADC...because they were already considered part of the workforce (they had no benefit from the patriarchy).

After the Civil Rights Act, black women began receiving ADC as white women did. However, at the same time, several states (it was a state-administered program) instituted the "no man in the house" rule. The Supreme Court outlawed that rule in 1969. So, "no man in the house" had only been in effect for five years and not in all states. It was a minor factor, limited in time and area, in the dissolution of the black family. Radical feminism has been the real cause of the situation we are in today, and the reason why the black family could not "get it together" after the Civil Rights Era began to relieve us of racist pressures.

That's an explanation I've never heard before and it's pretty interesting. I have heard about 3-4 explanations with some degree of validity in some way or another...but I don't entirely agree with any of them either.

I don't know what it is....but if you're interested, I'll drop my own idea on it that's a mixture of game theory, cultural bias-culture shock/anxiety, rational self interest, groupthink, etc. I think a consideration for the viewpoints of certain self segregated insular and...subcultural or maybe uniquely cultural communities (not all black people or even black communities)...think at that sort of critical stage of 15-30 where you are narrowing the possibilities of what the rest of your life will be and change becomes very difficult afterwards.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I have never said otherwise. Now I'm glad you admit there are obsticales

There's obstacles for everyone. I don't sew why thus particular one merits so much attention.

Things like racist judges and cops.

Or perhaps even some people who refuse to accept responsibility for their situation and endlessly blame others.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The trickledown from it being a death penalty crime for learning how to read. It made literacy less of a priority. A less literate population is easier to control.

There's literally nothing stopping anyone born here today from learning to read....except perhaps themselves and those immediately around them.

 

[rturner76]

Certainly parents aren't telling their kids that of you learn to read you will be killed for it.

You don't think that generation after generation of illiteracy had an effect on the kids/grandkids?

 

[rturner76]

There's obstacles for everyone. I don't sew why thus particular one merits so much attention.

Probably because you likely don't care. I think you've demonstrated that.

Or perhaps even some people who refuse to accept responsibility for their situation and endlessly blame others

COuld be some do that and it could be that you have no answer for why black folks in general have a harder time.

There's literally nothing stopping anyone born here today from learning to read....except perhaps themselves and those immediately around them.

So parents have nothing to do with child-rearing? If you have illiterate parents you are more likely to have illiterate children and the black population was basically illiterate for 400 years.