Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[comana]

When you engage in the child-making-act you are taking the risk of getting pregnant and therefore grant permission to another human to grow inside you.
It is silly to claim that you can cause another human to come into existence and then decide to not want that human to exist. That's like inviting someone on your property and then shooting them dead as an "intruder".

I disagree.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I disagree.

You disagree that a pregnancy is the direct biological consequence of the woman engaging in sex? Or you disagree with it being wrong to kill a human your own actions brought into existence?

 

[comana]

You disagree that a pregnancy is the direct biological consequence of the woman engaging in sex? Or you disagree with it being wrong to kill a human your own actions brought into existence?

I disagree that a woman is required to sacrifice her body to suffer a pregnancy and delivery because “biology”

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I disagree that a woman is required to sacrifice her body to suffer a pregnancy and delivery because “biology”

Why do you think that the woman's body is more valuable than a human life?

 

[NxNW]

As many as there were zygotes at the time the medication took effect.

At least you're now admitting that life begins after conception. So it's only a matter of deciding how long after conception it/they become a human being.

The only options for an embryo are
a) organ of the mother's body
b) separate organism and therefore an individual member of a species

It could be neither. Who "owns" the umbilical cord? If the embryo, doesn't the mother have the ability to decide to detach it because she refuses to be an unwilling host? If the mother, then can't she do what she wants with her own body and cut it?

There are no organisms that are not the full member of any species, and biology is very clear that the embryo is not part of the mother's body. So if you want to keep saying that the embryo is not a member of the species homo sapiens please explain what species the embryo belongs to.

"A member of the species" and "human being" are two different things.

 

[NxNW]

"In McGraw-Hill's textbook, "Patten's Foundations of Embryology, 6th ed.," for example, biology professor Bruce M. Carlson of the University of Michigan, writes, "The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."

Try to keep up. Twinning proves this to be false.

"In other words, you and I begin our lives not when we're born, but when we're conceived."

Twinning proves this to be false.

 

[NxNW]

Why do you think that the woman's body is more valuable than a human life?

If she accidentally leaves her door unlocked and comes home to find that someone has entered her house without permission, she has the right to remove the intruder at gunpoint, even it means the intruder freezes to death outside. This is true even if the intruder is a kidnap victim trying to escape her captors. The woman's right to defend her home outweighs anything else. Leaving the door unlocked might be compared to a failure of birth control -- it's not the same as giving permission for the intruder to be there. If the intruder refuses to leave, the woman has the right to defend her home with deadly force.

Shouldn't the woman's right to defend her own body be at least as robust?

 

[comana]

Why do you think that the woman's body is more valuable than a human life?

More valuable than an uninvited life. Because I am woman and have chosen the be pregnant. My choice. Pregnancy was hard physically and emotionally. Any woman who is not prepared to endure the toll I do not want her to suffer.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

"A member of the species" and "human being" are two different things.

A member of the species Delphinus delphis is a dolphin, and a member of the species homo sapiens is a human. That's literally just the translation of the Latin terms. You are drawing lines where none exist.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

More valuable than an uninvited life.

This is then what many people disagree with you on. Life is a basic human right, not having to endure hardship is not a human right. Especially not when your own actions are what led to the situation in the first place.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

If she accidentally leaves her door unlocked and comes home to find that someone has entered her house without permission, she has the right to remove the intruder at gunpoint, even it means the intruder freezes to death outside. This is true even if the intruder is a kidnap victim trying to escape her captors. The woman's right to defend her home outweighs anything else. Leaving the door unlocked might be compared to a failure of birth control -- it's not the same as giving permission for the intruder to be there. If the intruder refuses to leave, the woman has the right to defend her home with deadly force.

Shouldn't the woman's right to defend her own body be at least as robust?

I can't tell whether you are serious or joking. You act as if the child chose to be there. You can blame a total of 2 people for a pregnancy: mom and dad. The unborn human is the only one who has zero say in the matter. That the human is in the womb is the direct result of the parents' actions.

 

[Lost Witness]

If she accidentally leaves her door unlocked and comes home to find that someone has entered her house without permission, she has the right to remove the intruder at gunpoint, even it means the intruder freezes to death outside. This is true even if the intruder is a kidnap victim trying to escape her captors. The woman's right to defend her home outweighs anything else. Leaving the door unlocked might be compared to a failure of birth control -- it's not the same as giving permission for the intruder to be there. If the intruder refuses to leave, the woman has the right to defend her home with deadly force.

Shouldn't the woman's right to defend her own body be at least as robust?

it amazes me how so many are so quick to snuff out the life of an unborn child but fail to see they could've been aborted just as easily had their parents felt the same way as them..

glad your mom didn't feel the same way?

 

[Desk trauma]

glad your mom didn't feel the same way?

Per the idea of ensouled at conception and those souls going to heaven if they do not come to term then the obvious conclusion is no if that’s the case.

 

[comana]

This is then what many people disagree with you on. Life is a basic human right, not having to endure hardship is not a human right. Especially not when your own actions are what led to the situation in the first place.

And many people agree with me.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

And many people agree with me.

Now it's on you to explain why you think not all humans deserve human rights. Why should you not be killed now, but could've been killed without hesitation at an earlier stage of development?

 

[comana]

Now it's on you to explain why you think not all humans deserve human rights. Why should you not be killed now, but could've been killed without hesitation at an earlier stage of development?

I don’t believe that a fetus has the same rights as the mother. Let’s just put a first trimester boundary on elective for any reason termination and be done with it.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I don’t believe that a fetus has the same rights as the mother. Let’s just put a first trimester boundary on elective for any reason termination and be done with it.

I know that you don't believe that humans at that stage of development have the same rights as you. My question is, why. If stage of development defines the value of a human life, it would mean that adults are more valuable than infants.

 

[comana]

I know that you don't believe that humans at that stage of development have the same rights as you. My question is, why. If stage of development defines the value of a human life, it would mean that adults are more valuable than infants.

It’s more about one living inside and dependent on the other.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

It’s more about one living inside and dependent on the other.

Your child lives inside you 3 days before birth as well. If "living inside" is really what you think is the deciding factor then you should have no problem with killing the unborn human 3 days before birth.
And "dependent on the other" is even less of a distinction. Children are 100% dependent on others even after birth. What do you think will happen if nobody feeds the newborn?

 

[YahuahSaves]

Women who carry to term will tell you their bodies are changed permanently. Just because it is what we evolved to do does not mean it doesn’t come at a physical cost.

Those who choose termination are not granting explicit permission for the use of their bodies to grow another human.

So IYO, killing a child for cosmetic reasons is OK?