Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[YahuahSaves]

In other words, morality is subjective instead of consistent.

Human morality may be subjective, God's moral law of how we're meant to live is most definitely consistent. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Do you think you deserve to have your life taken from you if you take another human beings life? (That definition of human being includes the unborn, by the way).

 

[NxNW]

I understand that you cannot accept the scientific definition of a "human being" because it doesn't fit your opinion,

Please, post the scientific definition of human being such that an embryo or zygote meets that definition.

If "fully developed" is your requirement for being a human being, then neither a baby nor a teenager are human beings. You are moving on thin ice there.

Did I say anything about fully developed? Babies and teenagers have been born, so they meet the definition.

As the United States National Center for Biotechnology Information points out:

"Embryos are whole human beings

If that was true, you could freeze human beings without killing them. But you can't freeze them, so it's not true. You can freeze an embryo and leave it in storage for years. And the whole time, it's not considered a human being.

 

[NxNW]

I wasn't talking about twins, just the normal single zygote.

Before the twinning, what's the difference?

 

[NxNW]

"It's true that life in general is continuous, but the life of an individual human being is not continuous. It has a beginning and an end. The beginning is called conception.

Wait, so both twins exist at conception?

 

[NxNW]

That still doesn't discount the fact an embryo is a life defined as a human being with individual DNA.

It's not a fact.

 

[NxNW]

These facts about the unborn are established by the science of embryology and developmental biology. They are confirmed by embryology texts, scientific journals, and other relevant authorities.

"Four characteristics of the unborn human (the zygote, embryo, or fetus) are important:

Distinct. The unborn has a DNA and body distinct from her mother and father. She develops her own arms, legs, brain, nervous system, heart, and so forth.

Are identical twins distinct before the zygote splits?

If yes, you're claiming a biological impossibility.

If no, you're admitting life begins after conception.

 

[NxNW]

"Even when they do" ... lol yeah right. There wouldn't be "a million unwanted pregnancies" if most people actually chose to use contraception.

There most certainly would. Even when used correctly, you have a 1% failure rate, at least.

 

[NxNW]

God is not going to treat someone with severe cognitive issues or a new born baby the same as an adult male of sound mind. That would neither be fair or just.
James 1:15 “After desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”
A new born or someone with the mind of a 1 year old can no more plot and conceive sin then they can play tennis.

Are you claiming such people are without sin? (Y/N)

 

[NxNW]

Womb is good enoug for most people, it gets the point across to anyone not trying to split hairs.

Or anyone trying to understand the actual truth.

 

[NxNW]

What was the question?

Are both identical twins alive and distinct at the moment of conception?

 

[YahuahSaves]

Are identical twins distinct before the zygote splits?

If yes, you're claiming a biological impossibility.

If no, you're admitting life begins after conception.

You obviously don't know much about human biology, or how twinning occurs.

Here's some reading for you:

It’s a scientific fact: Human life begins at fertilization

25 Scientific Sources: Life Begins at Conception

As for how twinning occurs:

From: How Twins Work - Baby Making 101

All of your arguments fail based on the scientific/medical definition of "human being" and what constitutes "life".

 

[YahuahSaves]

It's not a fact.

Refer to post #758

 

[YahuahSaves]

Or anyone trying to understand the actual truth.

If you want to understand the "truth" about how human beings and life are defined scientifically, there's plenty of information if you're unbiased enough to accept it.

 

[GodLovesCats]

What is a "scientific definition" and how does it differ from other types of definitions?

The scientific definition is the only correct definition. All other definitions are lies made up by people who do not want to believe the facts for the sake of their political and/or religious agendas.

On the topic of abortion, the lying goes both ways, with many pro-choicers calling the unborn offspring part of the mother despite the scientific fact he/she obviously has his/her own unique DNA, while all pro-lifers get it wrong by insisting he/she is a baby starting at the moment of conception despite knowing the word "baby" scientifically is limited to born humans under one year old.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Please, post the scientific definition of human being such that an embryo or zygote meets that definition.

I already did. Or do you want to deny that a zygote is of the species homo sapiens?

Did I say anything about fully developed? Babies and teenagers have been born, so they meet the definition.

You said "an acorn is not an oak tree", which is equivalent to saying "an infant is not an adult". Yes, they are different stages of development. That doesn't change the fact that they are members of the same species.

You think birth is the deciding factor in this? So it is fine to kill the baby in the womb 3 days prior to delivery? As long as it is in the womb it can be killed without any consideration?

 

[YahuahSaves]

There most certainly would. Even when used correctly, you have a 1% failure rate, at least.

How would that equate to "a million babies" though? I think your math is off.

The failure of contraceptives are often due to incorrect use, such as timing, correct application, expiry and exposure to heat, etc. Rare cases are due to things like medication that can interfere with the oral contraceptive. However, people have the option to use more than 1 type of contraceptive at the same time, such as the oral contraceptive plus a condom.

 

[YahuahSaves]

the word "baby" scientifically is limited to born humans under one year old.

​

baby​

(bā′bē)
n. pl. ba·bies
a. A very young child; an infant.
b. An unborn child; a fetus.
c. The youngest member of a family or group.
d. A very young animal.

---

ba′by·hood′ n.
ba′by·ish adj.
The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary

"Even many abortion advocates have come to grips with this scientific reality. Naomi Wolf, a Clinton advisor and abortion supporter, wrote in The New Republic: "Clinging to a rhetoric about abortion in which there is no life and no death, we entangle our beliefs in a series of self-delusions, fibs and evasions. … The death of a fetus is a real death."

Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who co-founded the abortion advocacy group NARAL and personally presided over 60,000 abortions, later confessed in the film "The Silent Scream" that "Modern technologies have convinced us that beyond question the unborn child is simply another human being, another member of the human community, indistinguishable in every way from any of us."

From: The science is conclusive: That fetus is a baby

 

[Kylie]

Here's some reading for you:

It’s a scientific fact: Human life begins at fertilization

25 Scientific Sources: Life Begins at Conception

Life does NOT begin at conception, since the sperm and ova that combine are already alive PRIOR to conception.

The only thing that changes at conception is that there is a new combination of DNA within a cell. Is a unique combination of DNA sufficient to grant personhood? If so, then THESE people are in fact each two people.

They each have two sets of cells, one with one set of DNA (let's call it DNA set A) and another set of cells with a different set of DNA (we'll call that DNA set B).

Now, if I could somehow go in and change every example of DNA set B to match DNA set A, the person would still be alive, they would have an uninterrupted experience,. But have I committed a murder? If you believe that a unique set of DNA is sufficient to grant personhood, then yes, I must have committed a murder. Yet there is no body, no life has been lost, no experiences lost.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Life does NOT begin at conception, since the sperm and ova that combine are already alive PRIOR to conception.

Exactly, all life comes in stages.

If so, then THESE people are in fact each two people.

So what's your view on human-animal chimeras?

Yet there is no body, no life

That contradicts your statement that sperm and ova are alive. Also, in the case of abortions, a majority are done by crushing the skull and ripping off the arms and legs of a fetus.

 

[YahuahSaves]

@Kylie HERE is something you might be interested in watching (or not). It relates to DNA