Different kinds of healing?

[Guojing]

That is why I am doing no such thing.

I merely pointing out what scripture clearly states.

You mentioned "could not"?

 

[Always in His Presence]

You mentioned "could not"?

Sure did, so did scripture.

 

[Guojing]

Sure did, so did scripture.

If you want to understand it literally, that term refer to "mighty works".

but healing could still happen to a few.

 

[Guojing]

1. There is no place in scripture saying the Paul nor Jesus healed every single day. Only that God is willing...

I think Carl is trying to point you towards those verses that stated Paul had to leave people sick.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I think Carl is trying to point you towards those verses that stated Paul had to leave people sick.

Carl is articulate and well versed. I think he would know that best.

 

[Guojing]

Carl is articulate and well versed. I think he would know that best.

But you are aware there is scripture that states Paul had to leave fellow believers sick?

 

[Always in His Presence]

But you are aware there is scripture that states Paul had to leave fellow believers sick?

Of course.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well to be plain - this is the issue I am trying to emphasise...

Modern Christianity seems to encourage folks 'moving in their gift' when Jesus had to see what the Father was doing first.

So the ability of seeing God's intent before acting is not taught.

I have witnessed folks moving in presumption and causing chaos because of this.

I am all for bringing Glory to Jesus through healing but it should not be a self centred pursuit, neither should one expect God to always manifest power through you - He will at times do what He does in spectacular ways without a human mediator.

 

[Blade]

Well we as Christ said these signs follow them that believe. Now right there what does that mean? That is to have faith. We cast out demons we speak with new tongues.....we lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Nothing really to add to that it says or He said it all. Now there is the gifts of healing, workings of miracles. It says gifts of healing.

One has to have faith. Did not He said through Peter and John "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

From what I read from Matt-John everyone was healed but in that one town where all He could do was lay hands on a few and teach because of their doubt. Then and now doubt always will stop God. Lets let God by His sweet sweet spirit tell us "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

I have always do just stand on what He said not what I see in someone elses life. When any trouble comes I stand on His word. No matter how dark it gets ....oh praise God the song playing "In Christ Alone".. yes perfect timing as always. So no matter how dark it gets no matter what I see or hear I speak stand on His word. I follow no other group. I don't believe this because some man told me. I found it in His word He showed me. And as He said His promise are yes and amen. If GOD said it you don't have to ask Him. That promise is His will..that word is His will. Every time I stand It always comes to pass fruits. I did nothing it was always to Him and Him alone gets all the glory and praise.

I am human and this life hits me like it does you and sometimes so hard. I remember going to the doctor made my wife feel better. They took a ekg and said more then once it looks like you had a massive heart attack. This is ME..... no one else. I remember that day very well. That was so much pain. It was also very cool haha. Well at one point it was as if someone pushed the pain into my back and my back was in so much pain then pushed back into my chest. If I had ANY kind of doubt I always always go to the doc. I had no doubt here what so ever. Odd I can believe stand in faith for that but a tooth? Nope doubt 100% and go to the dentist. Others is so easy to pray for but praying for self oh can seem be like a nightmare. But I stood against the wall and I knew I didn't have to receive that pain. So I didn't as the song says my source of strength my source of hope...in Christ alone I put my trust. I know if HE said it then no matter what happens if I do not doubt.. ask HIM if you don't believe.. He always does it. He has to keep His word.

Like you believe John 3:16 yes? You have faith that He said if you believe in me you will have ever lasting life. Hello.. your standing on something He said in His word. You can't see it feel it you KNOW you are saved. Hello faith. My wife any time shes sick goes to the doctor. What do I think? Never give it a thought. When I pray for someone its "what can you believe?" Now there are times they can believe me so they put their faith with me...hello if two shall agree what did He say? I am 61 going on 62 and been living this for so so so many years now. I even had a dream a few years ago where all He said was "you do not invoke/speak the name of Jesus enough". Do you? That name above ever name. That name that makes the enemy run in fear.

This is ME not here telling you what Gods word really says. You need to pray seek study find this out for your self. That is what I did. I heard preachers from Baptist to word of faith. I then read study and I don't follow them. For me many of them believe like me If I offended forgive me. FAITH.. work your faith.. read that word and if GOD said it.. stand on it you have His joy His peace His armor..shall I go on? Yeah its ALL HIM! A keep your eyes on Him HE will keep you in perfect peace? Fear? I say no God has not given me the spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind. I don't care how this flesh feels. GOD can't lie and sad ..no way I have the joy of the lord and I will sing unto Him in pain in sadness and that joy that peace comes every time. Read Psa 91.. Isa 41:10.. on and on. Not what any man says .. just believe your Father GOD

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well we as Christ said these signs follow them that believe. Now right there what does that mean? That is to have faith. We cast out demons we speak with new tongues.....we lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Nothing really to add to that it says or He said it all. Now there is the gifts of healing, workings of miracles. It says gifts of healing.

One has to have faith. Did not He said through Peter and John "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

From what I read from Matt-John everyone was healed but in that one town where all He could do was lay hands on a few and teach because of their doubt. Then and now doubt always will stop God. Lets let God by His sweet sweet spirit tell us "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

I have always do just stand on what He said not what I see in someone elses life. When any trouble comes I stand on His word. No matter how dark it gets ....oh praise God the song playing "In Christ Alone".. yes perfect timing as always. So no matter how dark it gets no matter what I see or hear I speak stand on His word. I follow no other group. I don't believe this because some man told me. I found it in His word He showed me. And as He said His promise are yes and amen. If GOD said it you don't have to ask Him. That promise is His will..that word is His will. Every time I stand It always comes to pass fruits. I did nothing it was always to Him and Him alone gets all the glory and praise.

I am human and this life hits me like it does you and sometimes so hard. I remember going to the doctor made my wife feel better. They took a ekg and said more then once it looks like you had a massive heart attack. This is ME..... no one else. I remember that day very well. That was so much pain. It was also very cool haha. Well at one point it was as if someone pushed the pain into my back and my back was in so much pain then pushed back into my chest. If I had ANY kind of doubt I always always go to the doc. I had no doubt here what so ever. Odd I can believe stand in faith for that but a tooth? Nope doubt 100% and go to the dentist. Others is so easy to pray for but praying for self oh can seem be like a nightmare. But I stood against the wall and I knew I didn't have to receive that pain. So I didn't as the song says my source of strength my source of hope...in Christ alone I put my trust. I know if HE said it then no matter what happens if I do not doubt.. ask HIM if you don't believe.. He always does it. He has to keep His word.

Like you believe John 3:16 yes? You have faith that He said if you believe in me you will have ever lasting life. Hello.. your standing on something He said in His word. You can't see it feel it you KNOW you are saved. Hello faith. My wife any time shes sick goes to the doctor. What do I think? Never give it a thought. When I pray for someone its "what can you believe?" Now there are times they can believe me so they put their faith with me...hello if two shall agree what did He say? I am 61 going on 62 and been living this for so so so many years now. I even had a dream a few years ago where all He said was "you do not invoke/speak the name of Jesus enough". Do you? That name above ever name. That name that makes the enemy run in fear.

This is ME not here telling you what Gods word really says. You need to pray seek study find this out for your self. That is what I did. I heard preachers from Baptist to word of faith. I then read study and I don't follow them. For me many of them believe like me If I offended forgive me. FAITH.. work your faith.. read that word and if GOD said it.. stand on it you have His joy His peace His armor..shall I go on? Yeah its ALL HIM! A keep your eyes on Him HE will keep you in perfect peace? Fear? I say no God has not given me the spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind. I don't care how this flesh feels. GOD can't lie and sad ..no way I have the joy of the lord and I will sing unto Him in pain in sadness and that joy that peace comes every time. Read Psa 91.. Isa 41:10.. on and on. Not what any man says .. just believe your Father GOD

The matter however is to understand what faith actually is.

Faith comes from Hearing the Word of Christ.

It is specific to the occasion - Jesus saw what the Father was doing and acted in faith - to heal or not.

Without first seeing there would be no faith.

We need to learn to hear and see Him - then there will be no doubt.

When there is no doubt because we have seen, proclaiming healing is a given and never fails.

 

[Guojing]

Of course.

What do you do with those verses?

 

[Always in His Presence]

What do you do with those verses?

Read them, have you read my posts?

 

[ARBITER01]

That is not the issue...

You are critical of those not healing all the time as if the are deficient in faith - this is a nonsense.

1 Cor 4:
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, be imitators of me. 17 For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church.

First off,...

I'm very critical of those in leadership positions who do not operate in the power gifts. I don't deny it one bit, and rightfully so. I don't think anyone operating in one of the 5 fold offices should be claiming that office if they are not. They have no proof that they received said office from Jesus if they don't. The power of GOD is to be the proof of their office, and currently, everyone has been trying to do it through academia instead of Jesus.

That's my position on it and I'm not going to change it. Period. I don't care what scripture you may present otherwise. I stand by what The Holy Spirit has taken time to reveal to me, not peoples opinions.

Second,...

As you and I have been through this very topic before,.... Paul pointed to Jesus as the true example for all of us to follow,...

1Co 11:1 Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.

We can follow any one of the apostles or evangelists in scripture,... but only if they reflect how Jesus did and said things. When a person starts doing oddball stuff that points to themselves rather than to Jesus, we are to point it out to them, and even turn away from them if that person refuses to change. Most likely they won't change and GOD will allow them to decrease, if not be actually judged for their actions or words. And yes, this has happened in the past.

Thirdly,...

Do I believe a person with a ministry in the gifts of healings should be able to operate in that ministry every single day? Absolutely I do!! This happened for saints in the past like Smith Wigglesworth and others. Just because we don't have it spelled out for us distinctively in scripture is not some sort of reason for any of us to deny it's existence. I can read about this happening through quite a few saints of old, yet I'm suppose to somehow deny it's existence because I can't point to a section of scripture that states it specifically???

That's a bunch of manure.

I am fully sold out on what GOD is capable of doing, not what I can't find in scripture. He will be the judge of things in the end, not a bunch of academic idiots.

 

[Carl Emerson]

First off,...

I'm very critical of those in leadership positions who do not operate in the power gifts. I don't deny it one bit, and rightfully so. I don't think anyone operating in one of the 5 fold offices should be claiming that office if they are not. They have no proof that they received said office from Jesus if they don't. The power of GOD is to be the proof of their office, and currently, everyone has been trying to do it through academia instead of Jesus.

That's my position on it and I'm not going to change it. Period. I don't care what scripture you may present otherwise. I stand by what The Holy Spirit has taken time to reveal to me, not peoples opinions.

Second,...

As you and I have been through this very topic before,.... Paul pointed to Jesus as the true example for all of us to follow,...

1Co 11:1 Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.

We can follow any one of the apostles or evangelists in scripture,... but only if they reflect how Jesus did and said things. When a person starts doing oddball stuff that points to themselves rather than to Jesus, we are to point it out to them, and even turn away from them if that person refuses to change. Most likely they won't change and GOD will allow them to decrease, if not be actually judged for their actions or words. And yes, this has happened in the past.

Thirdly,...

Do I believe a person with a ministry in the gifts of healings should be able to operate in that ministry every single day? Absolutely I do!! This happened for saints in the past like Smith Wigglesworth and others. Just because we don't have it spelled out for us distinctively in scripture is not some sort of reason for any of us to deny it's existence. I can read about this happening through quite a few saints of old, yet I'm suppose to somehow deny it's existence because I can't point to a section of scripture that states it specifically???

That's a bunch of manure.

I am fully sold out on what GOD is capable of doing, not what I can't find in scripture. He will be the judge of things in the end, not a bunch of academic idiots.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify...

First point we are in agreement.

Second point Paul does say to imitate him because he does imitate Jesus.

Third point yes I agree but this is appointed by God and sometimes for a season. So if one is called then the faith to act is given at the time.

What I am uncomfortable with is the common line that folks should minister in power every day or they lack faith.


Yet some are called to do so and resist the calling for various reasons.

 

[ARBITER01]

What I am uncomfortable with is the common line that folks should minister in power every day or they lack faith.

Yet some are called to do so and resist the calling for various reasons.

Maybe I've privy to some aspects of GOD and His desires that you are not yet?!? Just saying.

Do you think GOD wants to testify of Himself through us down here in power, or He is now satisfied with those credentialed academics that are trying to do it by their own words?

Which is it?

The book of Acts describes GOD operating in power through those newly born disciples, and I don't think He has changed His desires one bit over time, we just don't have people in leadership or otherwise who have a proper relationship with Jesus to see those great things happen.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Maybe I've privy to some aspects of GOD and His desires that you are not yet?!? Just saying.

Do you think GOD wants to testify of Himself through us down here in power, or He is now satisfied with those credentialed academics that are trying to do it by their own words?

Which is it?

The book of Acts describes GOD operating in power through those newly born disciples, and I don't think He has changed His desires one bit over time, we just don't have people in leadership or otherwise who have a proper relationship with Jesus to see those great things happen.

I have already agreed on this point...

 

[ARBITER01]

I have already agreed on this point...

Yes you did, but you seemed somewhat reluctant on that decision.

I think GOD will prove Himself in due time on such things, I don't really need to start beating a dead horse on it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes you did, but you seemed somewhat reluctant on that decision.

I think GOD will prove Himself in due time on such things, I don't really need to start beating a dead horse on it.

No reluctance - have you read my testimony thread as a matter of interest ?

We seem to have the same misgiving regarding what passes as 'ministry' these days.

 

[ARBITER01]

No reluctance - have you read my testimony thread as a matter of interest ?

We seem to have the same misgiving regarding what passes as 'ministry' these days.

No I haven't, do you have a link?

 

[All Becomes New]

In the ministry of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "sign" and "miracle" are the same thing. Sometimes a sign is considered something Jesus said that itself was miraculous. You see, the Jews were looking for signs. They got plenty of them, but that didn't make them believe because it was much the same sort of thing as it is when witnessing to Atheists: they want evidence, and when you provide it, they want more evidence because the evidence you gave isn't good enough.