Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[NxNW]

Is it ever morally acceptible to torture a baby for fun?

If Dr Evil reveals that he has planted atomic bombs in 50 major cities around the world, and he'll detonate them all unless someone tortures a baby in front of him, then I think we have one such case. Not one I'd be happy about, but certainly the lesser of two evils.

Morality is objective if it is never morally acceptable to do that. Otherwise, what you are advocating for is mob rule. Pretty sure you don't want that option.

We have mob rule now, just a bit more civilized. Even within the church, it's mob rule. Interpretations change as the mob changes opinions.

 

[NxNW]

Twins have the same DNA, so this is not the win you think it is.

There are differences at a highly-detailed level, and they are clearly separate human beings once born.

 

[NxNW]

Twins have the same DNA, so this is not the win you think it is.

Do you have an answer to the options posed in my first paragraph?

 

[Desk trauma]

Is it ever morally acceptible to torture a baby for fun? Morality is objective if it is never morally acceptable to do that.

Otherwise, what you are advocating for is mob rule. Pretty sure you don't want that option.

Mob rule as opposed to what?

 

[All Becomes New]

If Dr Evil reveals that he has planted atomic bombs in 50 major cities around the world, and he'll detonate them all unless someone tortures a baby in front of him, then I think we have one such case. Not one I'd be happy about, but certainly the lesser of two evils.


We have mob rule now, just a bit more civilized. Even within the church, it's mob rule. Interpretations change as the mob changes opinions.

That is why I said, "For fun."

Pluralism is no arbiter of truth. If an objective world exists, then truth exists. And if truth exists, then moral objectivity exists.

 

[All Becomes New]

There are differences at a highly-detailed level, and they are clearly separate human beings once born.

Separate sharing the same DNA. Even if we go along with your little ploy, once they have separated, they both have their own DNA so are then both individual humans at that point.

 

[All Becomes New]

Mob rule as opposed to what?

Transcendent objective truth.

 

[Desk trauma]

Transcendent objective truth.

Where do I look to find that form of government in practice?

 

[All Becomes New]

Where do I look to find that form of government in practice?

You don't.

No king but Christ.

Repent and be saved, and have peace for your soul.

 

[Desk trauma]

You don't.

Then the only option is the mob rule you're oppose to?

 

[All Becomes New]

Then the only option is the mob rule you're oppose to?

If you are not interested in pursuing Truth, just say so.

 

[Desk trauma]

If you are not interested in pursuing Truth, just say so.

Not seeing how that's an answer to my question.

 

[All Becomes New]

Not seeing how that's an answer to my question.

Truth literally does not exist objectively if everything is just up to varying opinions.

 

[Desk trauma]

Truth literally does not exist objectively if everything is just up to varying opinions.

Which relates how to the form of government you want in place of "mob rule"?

 

[expos4ever]

At fertilization, it is a human. It has all the DNA code it will ever need at that point.

I think this is a compelling argument - one can reasonably argue that the "information" that functions as a relatively complete blueprint for a human person is established at conception: the rest is just "putting on the scaffolding". To be fair, though, it also seems reasonable to say that the fertilized has no sense of selfhood, and therefore is not a person. On balance, though, I am definitely with you: I think the most reasonable place to draw the line is at fertilization, for exactly the reasons you enumerate.

 

[YahuahSaves]

before I was 'me', it would have been before I existed

exist
intransitive verb

1) To have actual being; be real.
2)To have life; live.
3) To live at a minimal level; subsist

So anyone who is on life support is not a human being? By your definition of "exist". What about those with severe disabilities who need help with day-to-day life, such as feeding and being dressed? What about the elderly who also need assistance? The third definition of exist, "minimal level" seems to describe all of these states of living.

 

[All Becomes New]

Which relates how to the form of government you want in place of "mob rule"?

We live in a Democracy (so far), so we are very fortunate. But that does not mean we should not pursue objective truth. You seem to skirt this issue.

If you say, "No one knows what is true," then why should we pursue to seek truth? What reason would you give me to pursue truth if the truth is unknowable?

 

[Desk trauma]

We live in a Democracy (so far), so we are very fortunate.

Suddenly "mob rule" isn't so bad?

But that does not mean we should not pursue objective truth. You seem to skirt this issue.

Now for some objective truth: no US law classifies abortion as murder.

 

[All Becomes New]

Now for some objective truth: no US law classifies abortion as murder.

True. That does not mean that abortion is not killing a human being. What would you call killing an innocent life?

 

[Desk trauma]

So anyone who is on life support is not a human being?

If they are brain dead they are effectively human remains.