Can people who disagree on abortion stop attacking each other?

[jayem]

I don't care about secular America's laws, I care about God's laws.

So you think no one should plant 2 different kinds of seeds in his yard, or wear clothes made of 2 different materials.. And if a man has an affair with his neighbor's wife, they should both be executed. Under God's law, it's lawful to own a Hebrew slave for 6 years.. But a non-Hebrew slave--man or woman-- can be yours permanently. And if you beat your slave, and he recovers in a day or two, you won't be punished. Because the slave is your property.

This is the thinking of 3000 years ago.

 

[Darren Court]

I never want to debate abortion with people who disagree with me on the issue because it just goes around in circles, with "pro-lifers" wrongly accusing pro-choicers of murdering babies (which is obviously a lie) and pro-choicers calling pro-lifers misogynists who only care about controlling girls and women. In rape and incest cases, the latter is true, but most claims I read from both sides of the issue are incorrect unless people are just talking about Psalms 139, Job 10, and child development. I want to know if there is any way people can just agree to disagree on when abortion is only for convenience, when fetuses in the womb are viable, and how women should get rid of unwanted babies they can't take care of. There is no reason to doubt someone is a Christian just because he or she disagrees on this one issue, whatever the opinion differences are. I want to be able to trade views about a Christian issue without a fear that someone will deny my faith in God. I know everyone who reads God's Word would feel the same way, whether the issue is abortion or something else.

So instead of debating whether abortion is right or wrong and on what basis, I want to see if people are able to have a friendly discussion on the topic that does not devolve into crap such as, "You are not a Christian," or stupid name-calling.

I totally agree but would go further.....

If anyone is a truth seeker, they will put aside their opinion and seek the truth in the scripture. If God has a view, then it will be reflected in His word. To many people want to use modern day situational ethics and reason as an overlay to interpret the bible. Before any such discussions take place between Christians there has to be tacit agreement that God's word rules.... without it we'll end up in circles else knots.

The second thing to note here is that UNLESS the bible specifically makes belief in a certain issue, here it's abortion, imperative for salvation then it's not a salvation issue. In other words, believing either way does not mean in of themselves the person isn't saved. That does not mean the issue isn't important to God or that believers should approach it with sincerity and biblical understanding. They should.

The third thing to note here is that NOBODY can discern whether another person is saved or not, since it depends on their heart, or more precisely on their sincere accept as Christ their Lord and Saviour (side note we can fool ourselves into thinking we truly believe when we don't and the bible makes it clear how we can check ourselves but not others). Even if someone believed all the doctrines we THINK are correct and acted in the way we think a true Christian would, and gave their money to God and attended church and read their bible, etc. we cannot KNOW they are true Christians. This means if we cannot know someone is truly saved or not, we should not even think about judging if they are or not... even if they are sinning openly!

(I will confess I am solidly a pro-lifer and don't believe the pro-choice position has solid biblical grounds. Here's a great video on the subject...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sByJtd4xPy0)

 

[Darren Court]

Where is that verse in the Bible?

 

[David Collins]

So you think no one should plant 2 different kinds of seeds in his yard, or wear clothes made of 2 different materials.. And if a man has an affair with his neighbor's wife, they should both be executed. Under God's law, it's lawful to own a Hebrew slave for 6 years.. But a non-Hebrew slave--man or woman-- can be yours permanently. And if you beat your slave, and he recovers in a day or two, you won't be punished. Because the slave is your property.

This is the thinking of 3000 years ago.

Murder is a sin today and in the past. There is new covenant and old covenant.

You're using logic similar to people who wanna justify homosexuality today.

 

[David Collins]

So? Why should "Natural" equal "right"? Why should "Not natural" equal "wrong"?

And what if there was something natural that could cause an abortion?

I mean, you can even use plain old parsley as an abortifacient, and it has been used as such for hundreds of years.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232045287_Herbal_Infusions_Used_for_Induced_Abortion

Only God can take life, not us. Also, there are apparently risks to using parsley for abortion:

A Woman Dies Using Parsley to Induce Abortion. Protesters Are Blaming Argentina's Senate

A 34-year-old woman has died in Argentina from trying to induce a miscarriage with parsley shortly after the nation's Senate rejected a monumental abortion bill. The news has caused angry protests from abortion rights activists, who are holding the Senate responsible for the tragic event.

www.sciencealert.com

 

[David Collins]

Not today.
Since injections into people started, they have caused 'spontaneous' miscarriages in huge numbers, especially the last 3 years, but this was known over a century ago.

what do you mean by injections?

 

[Desk trauma]

I don't understand you here. You would have to let me know directly how things worked out under decree 770 and what the outcome was or what you think it was. That would not lead me to conclude anything, but then I would know what you are referring to, eh?
"

I gave you a link with information about it.

 

[Desk trauma]

I did not see it, or if I did, did not click on it. I don't like click-bate and won't follow it.

Here's the link again.

 

[Desk trauma]

Up to you.

Romania banned abortion and contraception, it was a disaster.

 

[Desk trauma]

The world, the whole world is a disaster.

Having policy similar to decree 770 would be worse.

 

[jayem]

Murder is a sin today and in the past. There is new covenant and old covenant.

You're using logic similar to people who wanna justify homosexuality today.

Times change. And so do values and attitudes. In a way, societies are like living organisms. Those can’t adapt to a changing environment go extinct.

 

[Desk trauma]

How would it be worse ?

Draconian enforcement of wildly intrusive laws.

And for who would it be worse ?

Fertile women mainly.

 

[Desk trauma]

That's not worse, not in truth nor in Jesus' Kingdom - it is way better in truth and in fact.

In the world where the devil is the prince of the power of the air, with the world subject to the devil,
anything truth is called 'worse', or perhaps 'draconian' ? (I don't know what that means here),
And being in line with the Creator's Perfect Word, the laws are not wild nor considered wrongly intrusive, but rather correct instruction preparing one for eternal life.
If a Fertile woman, infertile woman, man, or child kills anyone, they will pay with their own life , with perfect and eternal righteousness and pure and perfect justice already having been proven and established forever.

It really is comical watching a defense of authoritarian communist policy as a better more Christian option.

 

[Desk trauma]

Good. A cheerful heart is good medicine.

To be clear a policy that would abolish medical privacy for women, involve monthly mandatory medical exam to see if they are pregnant , and have government agents monitoring all pregnant women would be an improvement and not intrusive?

 

[Desk trauma]

Why say "to be clear", but the post is not clear at all?

In what way was it unclear?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Women have the right to "my body, my choice" and "hands off my body".

When, exactly, do women acquire that right?

From conception (0 days)?

Or only after (say) 12 weeks, 24 weeks, 9 months, 9 months + 29 days?

"hands off my body... from now on" (when is the "now" ?)

 

[GodLovesCats]

Miscarriages are natural (although they don't happen everytime anyway), artificial birth control pills are not.

Birth control pills prevent conception, so they don't kill zygotes.

Most conceived human beings are miscarried, so it does not matter anyway.

 

[Kylie]

Only God can take life, not us.

I've heard of lots of mass shooting over there in your country that would seem to indicate otherwise.

Also, there are apparently risks to using parsley for abortion:

A Woman Dies Using Parsley to Induce Abortion. Protesters Are Blaming Argentina's Senate

A 34-year-old woman has died in Argentina from trying to induce a miscarriage with parsley shortly after the nation's Senate rejected a monumental abortion bill. The news has caused angry protests from abortion rights activists, who are holding the Senate responsible for the tragic event.

www.sciencealert.com

Irrelevant to the point I was making.

 

[David Collins]

I've heard of lots of mass shooting over there in your country that would seem to indicate otherwise.

Morally speaking, we are not allowed to kill, which includes abortions.

 

[David Collins]

Birth control pills prevent conception, so they don't kill zygotes.

Most conceived human beings are miscarried, so it does not matter anyway.

Not always, sometimes zygotes are formed and the hormonal birth control causes changes in the lining of the uterus, and thus acts as an abortifacient.