Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[BNR32FAN]

I think I’m being discriminated against!

No, you’re just covering up you own shortcomings & mistakes.

Oh! Thank you not-my-oppressor for explaining my life situation to me; I will try harder!

Could you have tried any harder to misrepresent my post in a more obtuse fashion? No, I don’t think that would be humanly possible because that’s not even remotely close to what I said nor is it even remotely implied by what I said.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree...but if we were talking about what kind of persecution would cause someone to flee a country....it wouldn't be the sort of thing you'd reply to with a story about waiting in line at the hospital.

The story becomes a reflex. "None of this is my fault or my choice, I'm a victim of what has been done to me". Persecution complex.

I’ve seen it happen on numerous occasions. George Floyd’s death, they claim racism. Least amount of black doctors in America, they claim racism. Least amount of wealthy people in America, they claim racism. Lowest percentage of homeowners, they claim racism. Highest percentage of prison population, they claim racism. Highest percentage of people in poverty, they claim racism. Highest percentage of people on welfare, they claim racism. And they completely ignore the fact that the fact is, unfortunately blacks have the highest percentage of unemployment and the lowest percentage of college graduates. So naturally these are going to contribute to most of these problems listed above. And yeah I get it, college isn’t cheap, but the military doesn’t cost a dime to join and they’ll pay for college. That’s what my daughter’s plan is to go to college because we can’t afford it either but we’re not going to make excuses that she couldn’t succeed in life because she’s Filipino and being discriminated against. I’ve taught my kids that they can accomplish anything they want in life if they work hard and apply their self. Sure they’ll face obstacles just like everyone else but you have to overcome those obstacles to survive. That’s just life.

 

[RDKirk]

Nobody tells us what our culture is, we choose what we want to emulate. I went to Francis Scott Key middle school in Houston Tx and even tho all the kids lived in the same hood some chose to be gangsters and some chose not to.

Your mother teaches you your culture, and that's what you first emulate.

Culture goes deeper than most people think. It's not just the music, food, and clothing you like. It goes all the way down to how you understand truth, male/female relationships, generational relationships, honor and dishonor, evil and good, spirituality, and even how you experience the passage of time.

Yes, it's certainly possible for people to begin adopting certain aspects of cultures as they see more of the world, but most people in the world do not. And, no, you are not representative of "most people."

 

[RDKirk]

Ok....now we're down to one state? Can you recall when it was 50%?

Not offhand.

 

[Pommer]

Could you have tried any harder to misrepresent my post in a more obtuse fashion? No, I don’t think that would be humanly possible because that’s not even remotely close to what I said nor is it even remotely implied by what I said.

This what you said:
“All I’m saying is that many minorities think they’re being discriminated against when that’s not always the case. A lot of them like to play the discrimination card anytime things don’t go in their favor and even as an excuse to cover up their own short comings & mistakes.”

How is that substantively different than my dialog?

Explain it to me as if I were as stupid as you seem to think I am.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your mother teaches you your culture, and that's what you first emulate.

Culture goes deeper than most people think. It's not just the music, food, and clothing you like. It goes all the way down to how you understand truth, male/female relationships, generational relationships, honor and dishonor, evil and good, spirituality, and even how you experience the passage of time.

Yes, it's certainly possible for people to begin adopting certain aspects of cultures as they see more of the world, but most people in the world do not. And, no, you are not representative of "most people."

I still disagree, each person is his or her own person. We may choose to emulate our parents in some aspects and be the complete opposite in other aspects. My son is nothing like I was at his age, I’m nothing like my father, and my father was nothing like his father. Sure we have a few similarities but not much because parents are not our only source of culture and information. We also have influence from schools, tv, music, church, other family members, friends, etc etc. Our culture often derives from many sources and how we choose to perceive things and our own personal preferences.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This what you said:
“All I’m saying is that many minorities think they’re being discriminated against when that’s not always the case. A lot of them like to play the discrimination card anytime things don’t go in their favor and even as an excuse to cover up their own short comings & mistakes.”

How is that substantively different than my dialog?

Explain it to me as if I were as stupid as you seem to think I am.

George Floyd’s death. Was it the result of discrimination? Did the majority of people say it was?

 

[gaara4158]

George Floyd’s death. Was it the result of discrimination? Did the majority of people say it was?

George Floyd’s murder was an example of the callous disregard for human life police approach confrontations with suspects, especially Black ones. The accusation was a petty crime, his behavior was that of a scared stoned person at worst, and he was held down by the neck for nine minutes, killing him. How often do you see that happening to white suspects?

 

[RDKirk]

I still disagree, each person is his or her own person. We may choose to emulate our parents in some aspects and be the complete opposite in other aspects. My son is nothing like I was at his age, I’m nothing like my father, and my father was nothing like his father. Sure we have a few similarities but not much because parents are not our only source of culture and information. We also have influence from schools, tv, music, church, other family members, friends, etc etc. Our culture often derives from many sources and how we choose to perceive things and our own personal preferences.

Don't confuse personality with culture.

I'll bet you all perceive the passage of time the same way, and I'll bet it's linearly, as the case with most Western cultures. I'll bet you use the basic Western epistemology to determine truth the same way. I'll bet you all perceive good and evil the same way, even if you disagree on the evidence of a particular situation to determine what is good and what is evil...the difference is not in how you determine it, the difference is the evidence you choose to use. Such things do not differ commonly between people in a culture without there having been very traumatic, personality-warping events having occurred.

 

[RDKirk]

George Floyd’s murder was an example of the callous disregard for human life police approach confrontations with suspects, especially Black ones. The accusation was a petty crime, his behavior was that of a scared stoned person at worst, and he was held down by the neck for nine minutes, killing him. How often do you see that happening to white suspects?

In fact, exactly the same thing happened earlier to a white trucking executive here in Dallas. Tony Timba had a diagnosed emotional problem and was off his meds. He dialed 911 for assistance, but instead of sending medics, they sent the police.

There was bodycam footage of the entire ordeal. They pushed the already-handcuffed Timba face down on the ground and kneeled on his chest, while he pleaded for his life. The entire time, the police mocked him. Even when they discovered he was unresponsive, they continued to mock him. The video is chilling.

There was also the white guy killed by police in the hallway of a hotel that had some notoriety because the police played a cruel "Simon says" with him while he also pleaded for his life. When he finally failed at the "Simon says," they shot him dead.

There was another white guy white guy who was being arrested for a traffic violation. The officer tazed him, and while he was being tazed, writhing in pain, she demanded "stick our your hands!" He would jut them out momentarily, then withdraw them to writhe in pain some more. She continued tazing him, demanding "stick out your hand!" He'd stick them out again, but then ball up in pain again as she continued to taze him. Then she shot him while he was lying in the snow writhing in pain.

All those officers walked free, by the way.

 

[Desk trauma]

All those officers walked free, by the way.

Not only did officer Simon Says walk free, he was rehired for the express purpose of giving him a pension for the PTSD he supposedly has from the incident.

 

[DaisyDay]

Was it real? I'm sure certain Christians believed so....but I'm curious if you think that makes it true.

True and real are not not the same thing.

"Was it real?" Depends on what you mean - as I said before, this phrase was a audience engagement gimmick that Bill O'Reilly and his talk show cohorts would trot out every fall.

Did the belief of certain Christians make it true? Like magical thinking? No, it's not the belief that makes it true, but there's some truth to it. There has been a legal and cultural shift concerning public displays of religion, particularly as funded by taxpayers. There is a greater awareness that not everyone celebrates Christmas; along with that is the commercial desire to cash in on that by using more inclusive phrases such as "Season's Greetings" that, unfortunately, some people view as an attack on their ownership of the season.

Mixed in with deprecation of the once near universality (America being the center of said universe and the only important part) of the Christmas celebration you have Bill hyping the bogus attacks like the design of the Starbucks cup being insufficiently Christmasy (as though lack of reindeer were somehow an attack on Christianity) or some store selling "holiday trees" instead of "Christmas trees".

I'm not being as clear as I would like, but it's the best I can do right now. Does this answer your question? Was your actual question the one you asked?

 

[iluvatar5150]

And they completely ignore the fact that the fact is, unfortunately blacks have the highest percentage of unemployment and the lowest percentage of college graduates. So naturally these are going to contribute to most of these problems listed above.

[/QUOTE]

lol wut? Nobody ignores those things.

And yeah I get it, college isn’t cheap, but the military doesn’t cost a dime to join and they’ll pay for college.

20 years of war have incurred their own costs. And they only pay full boat for in-state public schools. Reimbursements for private schools are capped at $26k/yr. I couldn’t find numbers for out of state public schools.

 

[gaara4158]

In fact, exactly the same thing happened earlier to a white trucking executive here in Dallas. Tony Timba had a diagnosed emotional problem and was off his meds. He dialed 911 for assistance, but instead of sending medics, they sent the police.

There was bodycam footage of the entire ordeal. They pushed the already-handcuffed Timba face down on the ground and kneeled on his chest, while he pleaded for his life. The entire time, the police mocked him. Even when they discovered he was unresponsive, they continued to mock him. The video is chilling.

There was also the white guy killed by police in the hallway of a hotel that had some notoriety because the police played a cruel "Simon says" with him while he also pleaded for his life. When he finally failed at the "Simon says," they shot him dead.

There was another white guy white guy who was being arrested for a traffic violation. The officer tazed him, and while he was being tazed, writhing in pain, she demanded "stick our your hands!" He would jut them out momentarily, then withdraw them to writhe in pain some more. She continued tazing him, demanding "stick out your hand!" He'd stick them out again, but then ball up in pain again as she continued to taze him. Then she shot him while he was lying in the snow writhing in pain.

All those officers walked free, by the way.

Indeed, it speaks to a toxic culture among police forces when these types of incidents are commonplace and the offending officers are rarely held accountable. Now, when you look at the racial demographics of the neighborhoods they’re deployed in the most, you start to see a pattern. Even if cops aren’t individually racist (which it has been demonstrated that they are in certain jurisdictions), the way that they’re deployed disproportionately affects certain ethnic minority communities. That’s what systemic racism is.

 

[gaara4158]

lol wut? Nobody ignores those things.

20 years of war have incurred their own costs. And they only pay full boat for in-state public schools. Reimbursements for private schools are capped at $26k/yr. I couldn’t find numbers for out of state public schools.

Not to mention the literal arm and leg it may end up costing to serve.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I’ve seen it happen on numerous occasions. George Floyd’s death, they claim racism. Least amount of black doctors in America, they claim racism. Least amount of wealthy people in America, they claim racism. Lowest percentage of homeowners, they claim racism. Highest percentage of prison population, they claim racism. Highest percentage of people in poverty, they claim racism. Highest percentage of people on welfare, they claim racism. And they completely ignore the fact that the fact is, unfortunately blacks have the highest percentage of unemployment and the lowest percentage of college graduates. So naturally these are going to contribute to most of these problems listed above. And yeah I get it, college isn’t cheap, but the military doesn’t cost a dime to join and they’ll pay for college. That’s what my daughter’s plan is to go to college because we can’t afford it either but we’re not going to make excuses that she couldn’t succeed in life because she’s Filipino and being discriminated against. I’ve taught my kids that they can accomplish anything they want in life if they work hard and apply their self. Sure they’ll face obstacles just like everyone else but you have to overcome those obstacles to survive. That’s just life.

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like...I don't know if someone genuinely feels like they have absolutely no say in their life or the way the world effects them. It could be that they genuinely feel that way and that's genuinely how they see it....

 

[RDKirk]

Indeed, it speaks to a toxic culture among police forces when these types of incidents are commonplace and the offending officers are rarely held accountable. Now, when you look at the racial demographics of the neighborhoods they’re deployed in the most, you start to see a pattern. Even if cops aren’t individually racist (which it has been demonstrated that they are in certain jurisdictions), the way that they’re deployed disproportionately affects certain ethnic minority communities. That’s what systemic racism is.

What do you mean by "the way they're deployed disproportionately?" What is "disproportionate" in this context? Disproportionate by race in terms of the officer-to-citizen? Disproportionate to the crime rate? Do you mean that they have more patrols through areas with less crime than those with more crime...because if they have more patrols through areas with more crime, that would not be disproportionate.

Back in the 80s, one real case of police systemic racism was discovered in Omaha NE (a city with a significant racist history). The police department typically assigned its rookies and "problem" officers to the black North Side, while the favored officers were assigned to the wealthy white West Side. But that was 40 years ago.

In nearly 70 years of being black, I've had five "business" interactions with police. My first, at age 15 1/2, was driving without a license and getting in a fenderbender. The white Oklahoma police officer looked closely at me, decided I wasn't a real troublemaker, took me back home, and left me in the custody of my mother...no further action. The only officers I ever felt disrespected me were two black Washington DC officers, who cuffed and stuffed me on a humbug...and I had been the person who called 911 for their help.

One thing I believe has helped me is something my Army father instructed me about getting along in the military: "If you ever find yourself in trouble...Shut up! Running your mouth is only going to make them determined to find some reason to hammer you. Just shut the <bleep> up."

Dialing 911 is like opening a box of chocolates.

 

[RDKirk]

Not to mention the literal arm and leg it may end up costing to serve.

Right now might be the best time to join, at least as far as the possibility of combat is concerned. But I'd strongly advise joining the Air Force or the Space Force. The superiority in the quality of life over the other services is dramatic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

True and real are not not the same thing.

"Was it real?" Depends on what you mean - as I said before, this phrase was a audience engagement gimmick that Bill O'Reilly and his talk show cohorts would trot out every fall.

Did the belief of certain Christians make it true? Like magical thinking? No, it's not the belief that makes it true, but there's some truth to it. There has been a legal and cultural shift concerning public displays of religion, particularly as funded by taxpayers. There is a greater awareness that not everyone celebrates Christmas; along with that is the commercial desire to cash in on that by using more inclusive phrases such as "Season's Greetings" that, unfortunately, some people view as an attack on their ownership of the season.

Mixed in with deprecation of the once near universality (America being the center of said universe and the only important part) of the Christmas celebration you have Bill hyping the bogus attacks like the design of the Starbucks cup being insufficiently Christmasy (as though lack of reindeer were somehow an attack on Christianity) or some store selling "holiday trees" instead of "Christmas trees".

I'm not being as clear as I would like, but it's the best I can do right now. Does this answer your question? Was your actual question the one you asked?

No I think you did a sufficient job....

War...an attack...are descriptions of deliberate acts. These aren't matters of mere time or chance. The war wasn't real and the claim isn't true.

So the next question is why did that story sell? Why did they buy it so easily?

The simple answers just don't apply to that large of a group....they can't all be unintelligent, they can't all be easily duped....

I'd suggest that when the identity that you hold is one that centers on tales of persecution and mistreatment...on oppression...then whenever someone comes along and reasserts this aspect of your identity...why wouldn't you believe it? You've been told it your whole life. You're a victim....Thankfully someone came along to show you how. It doesn't matter if it's the war on Christmas or if it's "systemic racism" ....the important part is that you're finally able to claim this important part of who you are....a victim.

It's obvious to you....because you expect it. Christians are told to expect a period of persecution before the end. It's a self serving confirmation of one's own identity and really, I think this in particular about the persecution complex, one's own moral responsibility.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Such things do not differ commonly between people in a culture without there having been very traumatic, personality-warping events having occurred.

1. Was this part added to ensure no one would disagree?
2. Is there a culture experiencing time in a non-linear fashion?