Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[RDKirk]

You could call them prisoners of war....

You release prisoners of war when you bury the tomahawk.

 

[RDKirk]

Not talking about prisoners of war....first colonists traded slaves with native tribes, until they saw what those tribes did to them.

Torture, worked to death, ritualistic sacrifice....etc. Later tribes straight up kept slaves for work. The "trail of tears" is a sad story....sadder for the black slaves who had to carry all their stuff.

They don't teach history in Canada?

Yes, there were black slaves carrying the luggage on the Trail of Tears. And worse, to this day the Indian nations in Oklahoma are refusing to acknowledge the descendants of those blacks who still live among them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

"Equal outcome" and "equity" mean the same thing to many people. "Equal outcome" is the current popular meaning of "equity."

This is "equal outcome," aka "equity."
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Sure but when talking about various professions....or really anything....the discussion is about proportionality.

I've never heard anyone say "hey we need exactly the same number of X people and y people to do blah blah blah....."

 

[RDKirk]

Sure but when talking about various professions....or really anything....the discussion is about proportionality.

I've never heard anyone say "hey we need exactly the same number of X people and y people to do blah blah blah....."

You asked for a difference, I gave you a difference. And the fact that you haven't heard it suggested doesn't mean that I haven't heard it suggested.

My point is that proportionality should not necessarily be a goal, but disproportionality might be a reason to look for a reason why it's disproportional, and that might be a problem to be corrected.

Or it might not be a problem. For instance, there is a logical reason why outdoor camping is done much more by whites than by non-whites...and most non-whites can easily tell you why. We don't need the government to do anything to make more of us go camping.

 

[rturner76]

"Old money"?

You have no idea who controls "most industries".

Exactly. They keep it to themselves.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You asked for a difference, I gave you a difference. And the fact that you haven't heard it suggested doesn't mean that I haven't heard it suggested.

Fair enough.

My point is that proportionality should not necessarily be a goal, but disproportionality might be a reason to look for a reason for it. For instance, there is a logical reason why outdoor camping is done much more by whites than by non-whites...and most non-whites can easily tell you why.

I have no idea why but I'd sure like to hear it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Exactly. They keep it to themselves.

Right well...good talk.

 

[rambot]

Well, heck, go further south to the Aztecs and such, and it gets much, much worse.

Oh yes. I teach Aztec history in my junior high class.

 

[RDKirk]

Fair enough.



I have no idea why but I'd sure like to hear it.

We're ethnically still too close to that being the way we had to live.

 

[rambot]

Give him a 0 on the history test folks....

Let's see Roman Empire, the Moorish (Islamic) invaders, Huns, Mongols, Turks, Vikings, Barbary pirates, and basically you get a group of people who were conquered subjugated, persecuted and enslaved by various invading empires for about 2500 years before they set foot outside western Europe to spread their own empires.

Never read any history huh? Crack open a nonfiction novel sometime.

Western Europe:
1) Roman Empire...sure! You're right. I mean that was a while ago but you're right.
2) Moors. Yeah, in Spain for a few hundred years before Isabella and Ferdinand handily chased or beat them away.
3) Huns...i guess yes. You're right. Not sure exactly what that looked like but sure.
4) Mongols....didn't make it to Western Europe
5) Turks: Didn't make it to Western Europe...from what I can recall. Feel free to straighten me out
6) Vikings were Raiders really. Hard to persecute people if you only go in, beat the snot out of them, steal everything and move on. That's not persecution. That's just thievery. Not sure that is a great example
7) Barbary pirates. Very cool. But again, I don't see how that can be considered "Persecution". Also, not really in WESTERN Europe so much as.....the coasts of a sea. Can't really persecute people on a boat offshore.

Perhaps we are on a different page in terms of the relevance of those "oppressive persecutions"; moreso because in the end Western Europeans ended up victorious over most of those groups.


Still don't see any examples of the landed Americans white men though.

 

[rambot]

Ok but you ALSO noted:

The problem has not been that Eurocentric values and systems are the basis, the problem is that they have not been equally administered.

That sounds like the basic premise of CRT.

Certain affirmative action programs probably should continue until Boomers are dead...and that would be their deadline. When we Boomers are safely out of the picture, our descendants ought to think about removing those programs.

I recognize what you're saying but it's been pretty clearly demonstrated that racism is not some inherent belief people are born with. They are taught it by their parents. How come you believe, given that idea, that there is a time when those programs would no longer be useful?

 

[rturner76]

No.



Do they? Is there a people who don't have a history of persecution?

I don't think you understand the point I made. I've met Roma Gypsys who believe they're persecuted, right here in the US, by people who have no idea they're Roma Gypsys. It's all in their heads....part of a story they tell themselves.

Remember the "war on Christmas"?

You are so out of touch with what minorities go through. I don't blame you, it's your privilege that makes you think you know the experience of every person on Earth. You get to decide who has been oppressed and when am I correct?

 

[rambot]

You are so out of touch with what minorities go through. I don't blame you, it's your privilege that makes you think you know the experience of every person on Earth. You get to decide who has been oppressed and when am I correct?

it seems his argument is that white europeans being repressed in 455 by the Huns is comparable to black people being repressed 60-80 years ago.

 

[rturner76]

it seems his argument is that white europeans being repressed in 455 by the Huns is comparable to black people being repressed 60-80 years ago.

I can see the parallel of them both being nations of conquerors which has gone on since the first person built a fence and got people to help defend it. . What I don't identify with is someone dictating to others what their life experience is and denying that a conquered people are not affected by that down the generations just as the conquerers are affected.

 

[rjs330]

Interestingly, the proportion of blacks who are doctors as well as the proportion of doctors who are black is less now that it was 100 years ago.)

That is interesting. Are their fewer pursuing that?
I'm not surprised too much due to the high coat of education and the amou t if years you have to put in. I imagine it's much harder than 100 years ago.

 

[rjs330]

Native American values and systems

Ah. And what would that look like?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Who doesn’t have to fight for every inch?

Basically every person I’ve known who grew up affluent. Not that they aren’t decent people or don’t work hard at their jobs, but most of them have had fairly easy times of things.

 

[rjs330]

And that is systemic racism yes?

That was how many years ago now?
Has anyone said that there never has been systemic racism?

Why is it that when a topic like "Is there systemic racism today" the left always brings up stuff that happened a long time ago as if it supports that there is systemic racism today.

 

[rjs330]

Not being equally administered IS the Eurocentric system.

In the past.

 

[rjs330]

No, I get what you are saying. I guess what I mean is being black alone is surely not a privilege in this country. My dad told me about not being allowed to look a white man in the eye. I definitely never had it that bad though when I was young, I was called the n-word but I didn't experience the violence my dad's generation did. I remember being afraid to go in the woods at night because I thought the Klan was on patrol out there. The new generation seems to look at the Klan like a joke these days but back in the day, the Klan had judges, senators, governors, etc. that were involved.

Yeah that was a miserable time. And times have changed thankfully.

Now the Klan is a joke. A movie boogyman. They will always be around cause racism will always be around. Hatred will always be around. As time goes on it will get less and less.

What concerns me right now is racist doctors. Apparently they are a large reason why black women are not getting proper medical care during and after their pregnancy.