How to become a Calvinist in 5 easy steps

[John Mullally]

And that applies to me, how?

And in the light of predestination of some (Ro 8:29-30, Eph 1:9, Eph 1:11), how is double predestination avoided, when to include only some is necessarily to exclude all the rest?

To clarify, Ephesians 1:1-11 proclaims that the "faithful in Christ" in v1 are predestined to a glorious inheritance (v11).

You refute Paul by denying that God desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) with your Calvinist double predestination. You agree with Calvin who states that God predestines some to eternal torment before birth in order to receive Glory for himself (attributing evil to God should be a red flag to you). God who desires all men to be saved is not duplicitous (Mark 3:24). God has not changed places with the devil (2 Corinthians 4:4).

“…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

 

[Clare73]

Ephesians 1:1-11 proclaims that the "faithful in Christ" in v1 are predestined to a glorious inheritance (v11). You refute Paul by denying that God desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

While you refute Peter by denying that God chooses only some, and not all, to be saved (1Pe 1:2).

as you agree with Calvin who states that God predestines some to eternal torment before birth

I agree with the NT that all are born condemned (Ro 5:18) by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-15), which caused all between Adam and Moses to die when there was no sin because there was no law to sin against,
by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
blind to all spiritual things (Jn 3:3-5),
without the Spirit and unable to receive the things that come from the Spirit of God because they are foolishness to them (1Co 2:14).

If that makes me in agreement with Calvin, then good for him!

 

[zoidar]

While you refute Peter by denying that God chooses only some, and not all, to be saved (1Pe 1:2).

Are you sure individuals are chosen to be saved, and not saved individuals chosen for a purpose?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
— 1 Peter 1:1-2

 

[Clare73]

Are you sure individuals are chosen to be saved, and not saved individuals for a purpose?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
— 1 Peter 1:1-2

The difference?

 

[zoidar]

The difference?

I thought that was obvious. In the first case certain individuals are chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood and believe. In the second case every believer (whoever believes) is chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood.

 

[Clare73]

I thought that was obvious. In the first case certain individuals are chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood and believe. In the second case every believer (whoever believes) is chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood.

It's the same thing. . .

In both cases, individuals are chosen to be believers who are chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood.

 

[zoidar]

It's the same thing. . .

In both cases, individuals are chosen to be believers who are chosen to be sprinkled with Christ's blood.

No, in the first case certain individuals are chosen to be believers. In the second case whoever believes are chosen. In the second case it's not saying anything about who will become a believer.

 

[John Mullally]

While you refute Peter by denying that God chooses only some, and not all, to be saved (1Pe 1:2).

I agree with the NT that all are born condemned (Ro 5:18) by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-15), which caused all between Adam and Moses to die when there was no sin because there was no law to sin against,
by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
blind to all spiritual things (Jn 3:3-5),
without the Spirit and unable to receive the things that come from the Spirit of God because they are foolishness to them (1Co 2:14).

If that makes me in agreement with Calvin, then good for him!

1 Peter 1:2 is not stating that God predestines some from before birth to eternal life and lets the rest go to hell in order to receive glory for himself, with the malicious "double predestination" both you and Calvin proclaim. Your argument is with Paul who states that God desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). Given that God desires all men to be saved, He does not work against Himself by predestinating anyone to eternal torment from before birth. Scripture says that satan, not God, works to send people to eternal torment (2 Corinthians 4:4). Jesus warns against attributing God's work to satan (Matthew 12:24-32) as your double predestination doctrine (1 Timothy 4:1) does.

I agree that those without the spirit are unable to receive from God, but that is easily solved by man's repentance as Peter promises salvation (i.e. remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit) to those who repent in Acts 2:38-39. Acts 2:38-39 is the Gospel (i.e. good news) that complements Gods desire for all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). God is not blocking any to salvation as He calls all men to repentance (Acts 17:30). Concentrate on the actual writing of the NT as opposed to Calvin's ramblings (2 Corinthians 10:5).

Paul proclaimed Romans 5:18 to warn the self-righteous - He was not trying to scare away the repentant. Much earlier in Romans, Paul stated that the Gospel is the power of God for salvation (Romans 1:15). Believe the Gospel!

 

[JAL]

All are born condemned (Ro 5:18) by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-15), which caused all between Adam and Moses to die when there was no sin because there was no law to sin against.

Implausible exegesis. No one was sinning in Noah's day? God sent a flood to annihilate the immaculate? And no one was sinning in Sodom and Gomorrah?

You seem to think that sin requires written law. In that case, God apparently cast lucifer out of heaven for no good reason?

The truth is that sin only requires a conscience plus free will (Ro 2:15). That's all.

 

[Clare73]

No, in the first case certain individuals are chosen to be believers. In the second case whoever believes are chosen. In the second case it's not saying anything about who will become a believer.

Which does not alter the fact that not only believers and all believers will be sprinkled. . .one and the same group.

From where/whom are you getting your dichotomy?

 

[Clare73]

Implausible exegesis.

Feel free to exegete
Ro 5:18, showing that all men are not condemned, and
Ro 5:12-15, being true to its words, context and consistent with the points/questions/issues presented.

 

[zoidar]

From where/whom are you getting your dichotomy?

I don't know. Soteriologi 101?

Redirect Notice

"Election. God’s choice of those who believe in Christ is an important teaching of the apostle Paul (see Ro 8:29-33; 9:6-26; 11:5, 7, 28; Col 3:12; 1 Th 1:4; 2 Th 2:13; Tit 1:1). Election (Gk eklego) refers to God choosing in Christ a people whom he destines to be holy and blameless in his sight (cf. 2 Th 2:13)."

 

[Clare73]

I don't know. Soteriologi 101?

Redirect Notice

"Election. God’s choice of those who believe in Christ is an important teaching of the apostle Paul (see Ro 8:29-33; 9:6-26; 11:5, 7, 28; Col 3:12; 1 Th 1:4; 2 Th 2:13; Tit 1:1). Election (Gk eklego) refers to God choosing in Christ a people whom he destines to be holy and blameless in his sight (cf. 2 Th 2:13)."

Nothing there about two different groups chosen. . .or two different plans for the chosen.

 

[Clare73]

1 Peter 1:2 is not stating that God predestines some from before birth to eternal life and lets the rest go to hell in order to receive glory for himself, with the malicious "double predestination" both you and Calvin proclaim.

The NT, in presenting predestination (Ro 8:29-30, Eph 1:5, Eph 1:11), necessarily presents double predestination.
You have failed to show the error of that statement.

I agree with the NT that all are born condemned (Ro 5:18) by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-15), which caused all between Adam and Moses to die when there was no sin because there was no law to sin against,
by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
blind to all spiritual things (Jn 3:3-5),
without the Spirit and unable to receive the things that come from the Spirit of God because they are foolishness to them (1Co 2:14).

If that makes me in agreement with Calvin, then good for him!

 

[zoidar]

Nothing there about two different groups chosen. . .or two different plans for the chosen.

Two different groups or two different plans? I don't follow. Only one group is chosen, believers/those in Christ elected for sanctification/living holy lives.

Which does not alter the fact that not only believers and all believers will be sprinkled. . .one and the same group.

No, only believers will be sprinkled. I don't see 1 Pet 1:1 mention any unbelievers.

 

[Clare73]

Two different groups or two different plans? I don't follow. Only one group is chosen, believers/those in Christ elected for sanctification/living holy lives.

Both group are believers. . .for all the chosen are believers.

No, only believers will be sprinkled. I don't see 1 Pet 1:1 mention any unbelievers.

And both groups are believers, which are sprinkled, making them one group.

 

[zoidar]

Both group are believers. . .for all the chosen are believers.

And both groups are believers, which are sprinkled, making them one group.

Which two groups are you refering to?

 

[Clare73]

Which two groups are you refering to?

The same two groups to which you are referring in your post #2167.

 

[JAL]

Feel free to exegete
Ro 5:18, showing that all men are not condemned, and
Ro 5:12-15, being true to its words, context and consistent with the points/questions/issues presented.

You didn't answer the questions. No one was sinning in Noah's day? And no one was sinning in Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[Clare73]

You didn't answer the questions.

When you answer my request. . .

No one was sinning in Noah's day? And no one was sinning in Sodom and Gomorrah?

What does Paul say in Ro 5:13?