Crucifixion Dating of Jesus Christ

[Clare73]

The Passover is all about Light. In fact, the ministry of Christ is about Light. He comes into the World during the Feast of Lights and goes out at the beginning of the Increase of the Light of the year.

The Feast of Lights was not an ordinance of God, but of man, which was a Jewish custom practiced by all the Jews.

Apostle John speaks of how he bore witness of that Light. Then we see Jesus before the Passover, explaining how His followers are the light of the world and to spread that light. So in the beginning of this thread, I had deleted some posts because I have been studying some things I found in some ancient texts that were confirming my findings but changing the days on which I believe the Last Supper took place (but the Date I have for the crucifixion is unchanged). Based on this analysis, it confirms that the 3 days and 3 nights are as stated. In the Book of Genesis it never says that the days and nights are dependent on when the sun or the moon shine. Remember the Darkness and Light and existed before the Sun and the moon. So when we read of the sign of Jonah we should not take that to mean 3 24 hour periods but rather simply as 3 periods of daylight and 3 periods of darkness. Additionally, if there was any sign that everyone would agree on (both opposers and adherents to Christ) would be that a supernatural form of darkness came upon the scene during the crucifixion. There could only be the understanding that this sign was part of the 3 days and 3 nights as no other explanation could be correlated to it.

But moving unto the last supper (Passover meal), it is clear that this mean was not on the 6th day (Preparation Day). However, since it is said that this would take place after 2 days and given in the context of when the Jews assembled together with the elder to comspire to put Him to death this makes it two days after the 10th of the month. So this means that Jesus would have the last supper just prior to the evening of the 4th day of the week and be apprehended on the 4th day of the week. What is significant about this is that the event is about Light!

What happens in 31 AD on the 3rd day of that second week is when the Light is first advancing ahead of darkness. Therefore, the True Passover, would have begun AT THAT TIME. So Matthew 26:17 that it was the first day of the Passover, this is referring to that day or the 3rd day of the 2nd week of the 1st month or rather the 13th of Nissan.

That puts you in disagreement with Scripture in Ex 12:6, Lev 23:5, Nu 9:1-3, 5, Jos 5:10 where God established Passover on Nissan 14.

 

[Deafsilence]

The Feast of Lights was not an ordinance of God, but of man, which was a Jewish custom practiced by all the Jews.

That puts you in disagreement with Scripture in Ex 12:6, Lev 23:5, Nu 9:1-3, 5, Jos 5:10 where God established Passover on Nissan 14.

Well, the lamb was still killed on the 14th. But I'm not alone in this thinking, Two primary documents that support this are the following:

Didascalia Apostolorum

Didascalia on Early Christian Writings: the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Church Fathers: information and translations of Gospels, Epistles, and documents of early Christianity.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

The Paschal Canon; fragments | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

 

[Clare73]

Well, the lamb was still killed on the 14th. But I'm not alone in this thinking, Two primary documents that support this are the following:

Didascalia Apostolorum

Didascalia on Early Christian Writings: the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Church Fathers: information and translations of Gospels, Epistles, and documents of early Christianity.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

The Paschal Canon; fragments | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

The lamb was slaughtered on Nissan 14, and then we have the testimony of the NT that:
he rose on the first day of the week (Sunday)
he was in the tomb the day before that (Sabbath)
he was tried, crucified and then placed in the tomb just hours, if not minutes, before the Sabbath (Friday),
he was arrested after the Passover meal and before the trial (Thursday).

The testimony of the NT does not seem to agree with you.

 

[Deafsilence]

The lamb was slaughtered on Nissan 14, and then we have the testimony of the NT that:
he rose on the first day of the week (Sunday)
he was in the tomb the day before that (Sabbath)
he was tried, crucified and then placed in the tomb just hours, if not minutes, before the Sabbath (Friday),
he was arrested after the Passover meal and before the trial (Thursday).

The testimony of the NT does not seem to agree with you.

So here is what I have stated all along:

1.) Jesus was crucified on the 14th of the month.
2.) He rose on the first day of the week.
3.) He was arrested after the Passover meal.

I believe the NT agrees with all of that.

 

[Lulav]

Synecdoche.
A day and a night in Hebrew culture is equivalent to any part of a day.

No, a day can mean any part of a day.

That is probably why Yeshua made it clear:

Matt 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[Der Alte]

1. The expression, “three days and three nights,” is an Old Testament idiom carried over into the New Testament, and means not necessarily three whole days and three whole nights, but in round numbers a period of about three days. In the case of Jonah, to whose typical experience the Lord refers, we have no means of accurately ascertaining what actual measure of time he was in the belly of the fish, but in the other places where this idiom is used, or implied, we have strong reason to believe that it could not have meant literally three days and three nights. Exactly the same expression as in the case of Jonah is found in 1 Samuel 30:12-14, when David and his men returned to Ziklag on “the third day” (Verse 1). They found the place had been devastated in their absence, and their families and property carried off as spoil by the Amalekites; they found also an Egyptian slave, who had eaten no bread nor drunk water “three days and three nights” (Verse 12); but in the 13th verse we read that it was “three days ago” that he fell sick, and the impression left on the mind is that it was a period of about three days. In Esther 4:16 we read that after Esther had been sufficiently roused by Mordecai to the imminent danger which was threatening, she sent a message to him: “Go, gather all the Jews that are present in Shushan and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days—night and day; I also and my maidens will fast in like manner.” –“But it came to pass on the third day”(Chapter 5:1), and evidently early on that day, that she appeared before Ahasuerus and on that same day we find her already at the “banquet” to which she had invited him and Haman.

Three days and three nights?

www.messianicgoodnews.org

 

[Deafsilence]

The understanding of what three days and three nights is doesn't require a commentary or concordance. It can be found right in Genesis:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Ask yourself, did Night and Day require the sun or the moon? No, the Sun and the Moon act within the boundaries of the Day and Night, and how is that boundary determined? Read on in Genesis:

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

So the sun and the moon cycles don't determine the day or night. The day and night is determined by the lights in the firmament of heaven. This is stated before the sun and moon and the stars.

As I understand it, the Jews actually did this, they had rules about when night had begun which was whether so many stars began to appear in the sky and then it was declared night.

So if the sky went dark in what seems like the noon hour for example such that stars could be seen in the sky, then one day just ended (even though the hours of the sun are maintained.)

 

[Torah Keeper]

The understanding of what three days and three nights is doesn't require a commentary or concordance. It can be found right in Genesis:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Ask yourself, did Night and Day require the sun or the moon? No, the Sun and the Moon act within the boundaries of the Day and Night, and how is that boundary determined? Read on in Genesis:

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

So the sun and the moon cycles don't determine the day or night. The day and night is determined by the lights in the firmament of heaven. This is stated before the sun and moon and the stars.

As I understand it, the Jews actually did this, they had rules about when night had begun which was whether so many stars began to appear in the sky and then it was declared night.

So if the sky went dark in what seems like the noon hour for example such that stars could be seen in the sky, then one day just ended (even though the hours of the sun are maintained.)

Noo...The day does not end during an eclipse or supernatural event. The day ended at sunset, when the sun was below the horizon. They had clocks back then too (sundials, hourglasses, water clocks). The rule about stars appearing is for when to resume work after Shabbat. And of course it is more of a rule than a law, because you can't see any stars when it is cloudy.

The sky was dark for 3 hours when Yeshua died. Think about it, how did they know it was dark for 3 hours, if they couldn't see the sun to tell time? Clocks!

 

[prodromos]

The understanding of what three days and three nights is doesn't require a commentary or concordance. It can be found right in Genesis:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Ask yourself, did Night and Day require the sun or the moon? No, the Sun and the Moon act within the boundaries of the Day and Night, and how is that boundary determined? Read on in Genesis:

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

So the sun and the moon cycles don't determine the day or night. The day and night is determined by the lights in the firmament of heaven. This is stated before the sun and moon and the stars.

As I understand it, the Jews actually did this, they had rules about when night had begun which was whether so many stars began to appear in the sky and then it was declared night.

So if the sky went dark in what seems like the noon hour for example such that stars could be seen in the sky, then one day just ended (even though the hours of the sun are maintained.)

So does Luke 23:44-45 count as an additional day and night?

It was now about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour, while the sun’s light failed; and the curtain of the temple was torn in two.

 

[Deafsilence]

Noo...The day does not end during an eclipse or supernatural event. The day ended at sunset, when the sun was below the horizon. They had clocks back then too (sundials, hourglasses, water clocks). The rule about stars appearing is for when to resume work after Shabbat. And of course it is more of a rule than a law, because you can't see any stars when it is cloudy.

The sky was dark for 3 hours when Yeshua died. Think about it, how did they know it was dark for 3 hours, if they couldn't see the sun to tell time? Clocks!

Not according to the Bible, Genesis makes it clear that the lights in the firmament separate day from night.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: The could easily determine the hours because the Sun would have maintained its course and time and they could still calculate the hours. We can do the same today without a clock. If it is 10 am and goes dark for two hours and suddenly day appears again and the sun is directly overhead we know it is noon by where the sun is and would know 2 hours went by.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Not according to the Bible, Genesis makes it clear that the lights in the firmament separate day from night.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: The could easily determine the hours because the Sun would have maintained its course and time and they could still calculate the hours. We can do the same today without a clock. If it is 10 am and goes dark for two hours and suddenly day appears again and the sun is directly overhead we know it is noon by where the sun is and would know 2 hours went by.

Yes, according to the Bible, the day ends at sunset. However, if the sun cannot be seen, it is possible to tell time with clocks.

How exactly did anything I wrote, contradict the Bible?

What exactly are you trying to prove here? Because it really seems like you are just mumbling gibberish. Didn't you just suggest that the day ended when it went dark, when Yeshua died? If the day ended, they wouldn't think 3 hours passed, they would think it was night. But it wasn't. They didn't think that. John didn't write that. 3 hours passed, because the day had not ended yet. Not until sunset. Do you understand?

 

[Deafsilence]

Yes, according to the Bible, the day ends at sunset. However, if the sun cannot be seen, it is possible to tell time with clocks.

How exactly did anything I wrote, contradict the Bible?

What exactly are you trying to prove here? Because it really seems like you are just mumbling gibberish. Didn't you just suggest that the day ended when it went dark, when Yeshua died? If the day ended, they wouldn't think 3 hours passed, they would think it was night. But it wasn't. They didn't think that. John didn't write that. 3 hours passed, because the day had not ended yet. Not until sunset. Do you understand?

The day and night are not determined by time. Day and night are determined by the dividing established in lights of the firmament. By the time Jesus was on the cross and sunset came, 2 days and a night had occurred.

 

[Deafsilence]

Consider this - I believe this to be the case from what I'm seeing in the pattern in 31 AD:

Didascalia Apostolorum

Didascalia on Early Christian Writings: the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Church Fathers: information and translations of Gospels, Epistles, and documents of early Christianity.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus.

Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week, He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, [[182]] they accused him much [Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him. And they asked Him of Pilate to be put to death; and they crucified Him on the same Friday.

He suffered, then, at the sixth hour on Friday. And these hours wherein our Lord was crucified were reckoned a day. And afterwards, again, there was darkness for three hours; and it was reckoned a night. And again, from the ninth hour until evening, three hours, (reckoned) a day. And afterwards again, (there was) the night of the Sabbath of the Passion.

 

[Deafsilence]

Now this is to compliment what I see in my last post:

Based on 31 AD

21st March is 10th day of Lunar Month and 2nd day of week
22nd March is 11th day of Lunar Month and 3rd day of the week
23rd March is 12th day of Lunar Month and 4th day of the week (Sun is now growing in light as having passed into the 3rd portal - Last Supper)
24th March is 13th day of Lunar Month and 5th day of the week (Jesus taken back to Caiaphas Palace for evening of the 14th)
25th March is 14th day of Lunar Month and 6th day of the week (Preparation day) Jesus taken to be held in quarters of Pilate for the evening of the 15th)
26th March is 15th day of Lunar Month and 7th day fo the week (High Sabbath - Feast of Unleavened Bread).

 

[Lulav]

The day and night are not determined by time. Day and night are determined by the dividing established in lights of the firmament. By the time Jesus was on the cross and sunset came, 2 days and a night had occurred.

But that has nothing to do with him being in the grave or earth for three days and three nights. The time he spent hanging on the cross is not included in that time frame.

 

[Deafsilence]

But that has nothing to do with him being in the grave or earth for three days and three nights. The time he spent hanging on the cross is not included in that time frame.

Jesus never said He would be in the "Grave" for 3 days and 3 nights. He said He would be in the "heart of the earth". I don't think that equates with the earth. I believe this is the time from the time when the SINS of the World are laid upon Him, after the priests and elders make Him their scapegoat and decide to crucify Him. This is typed by the fact that Barabas and Jesus are presented together (this represents the two goats as on the day of atonement). Jesus is playing the role of both Goats but we should understand the type. From that point I believe He is in the Heart of the Earth. At that point He carries the condemnation of the world. Think of Jonah. God says if the watchman doesn't warn then the watchman will carry that burden of what is warned for. So Jonah by not warning Nineveh, is then carrying the burden or the sin of Nineveh. So there was no mercy for him should he run from God, his sin was not just running from God but the sin of Nineveh as well.

 

[Der Alte]

***
So the sun and the moon cycles don't determine the day or night. The day and night is determined by the lights in the firmament of heaven. This is stated before the sun and moon and the stars.
As I understand it, the Jews actually did this, they had rules about when night had begun which was whether so many stars began to appear in the sky and then it was declared night.
So if the sky went dark in what seems like the noon hour for example such that stars could be seen in the sky, then one day just ended (even though the hours of the sun are maintained.)

What you "understand the Jews actually did" would be more readily accepted if you would provide some sources. Otherwise....

 

[Clare73]

So here is what I have stated all along:

1.) Jesus was crucified on the 14th of the month.
2.) He rose on the first day of the week.
3.) He was arrested after the Passover meal.

I believe the NT agrees with all of that.

Not all of that is in agreement with the NT following:

the lamb was slaughtered at twilight on Nissan 14 (Wednesday),
Jesus ate Passover, was arrested after the Passover meal and illegally tried at night (Thursday).
he was again tried, then crucified and placed in the tomb just hours, if not minutes, before the Sabbath (Friday),
he was in the tomb all of the day before the first day of the week (Saturday Sabbath),
he rose on the first day of the week (Sunday).

According to the NT record, Jesus was crucified on Nissan 16, during "Passover," Nissan 14-21.
.

 

[Deafsilence]

Not all of that is in agreement with the NT following:

the lamb was slaughtered at twilight on Nissan 14 (Wednesday),
Jesus ate Passover, was arrested after the Passover meal and illegally tried at night (Thursday).
he was again tried, then crucified and placed in the tomb just hours, if not minutes, before the Sabbath (Friday),
he was in the tomb all of the day before the first day of the week (Saturday Sabbath),
he rose on the first day of the week (Sunday).

According to the NT record, Jesus was crucified on Nissan 16, during "Passover," Nissan 14-21.
.

If Jesus was crucified on Nissan 14 then that doesn't match the requirement that the Passover lamb be killed on the 14th.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Plus what I did state was in alignment with the NT. Jesus Last Supper was on the 4th day of the week (Nissan 12). Again, the Testament of the Twelve makes this understandable:

Didascalia Apostolorum​

Didascalia on Early Christian Writings: the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Church Fathers: information and translations of Gospels, Epistles, and documents of early Christianity.
www.earlychristianwritings.com

And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus.

Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week, He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, [[182]] they accused him much [Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him. And they asked Him of Pilate to be put to death; and they crucified Him on the same Friday.

He suffered, then, at the sixth hour on Friday. And these hours wherein our Lord was crucified were reckoned a day. And afterwards, again, there was darkness for three hours; and it was reckoned a night. And again, from the ninth hour until evening, three hours, (reckoned) a day. And afterwards again, (there was) the night of the Sabbath of the Passion.

 

[Clare73]

If Jesus was crucified on Nissan 14 then that doesn't match the requirement that the Passover lamb be killed on the 14th.

Check my post again to see what I presented.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Plus what I did state was in alignment with the NT. Jesus Last Supper was on the 4th day of the week (Nissan 12). Again, the Testament of the Twelve makes this understandable:

I take my testimony from the God-breathed Holy Scriptures (2Ti 3:16).
Only they are authoritative for the church.
And they present the following:

the lamb was slaughtered at twilight on Nissan 14 (Wednesday),
Jesus ate Passover, was arrested after the Passover meal and illegally tried at night (Thursday).
he was again tried, then crucified and placed in the tomb just hours, if not minutes, before the Sabbath (Friday),
he was in the tomb all of the day before the first day of the week (Saturday Sabbath),
he rose on the first day of the week (Sunday).

(See post #443 for the sequence logic.)